Hord fight better, Ally have better tech myth

55 Draenei Death Knight
470
So. Looking at the game and hearing that the Horde are superior fighter while the Alliance technology gives them an edge.

Now that the Horde have goblin tech in their ..well Horde does that make them superior to Alliance in every single way?

Looking at the game and practical use of everything I see in game. I haven't seen Technology as the back bone of Alliance superiority yet. If anything it seems to be their strength of arms and their "Come at me bro" non defeatist attitude the holds them together. Technology they appear to use sparingly.

Take of instance the Alliance footman who supposedly cannot match the Horde Grunt. Yet , I don't see him carrying a rifle to even up the odds against the superior orcs . I see them charging one on one with an orc Grunt and pretty much give a big. F.U to the Horde forces, they don't even back down from Taurens.

So where does tech come into play for the backbone of the Alliance?

We have airship, guess what the Horde does too. We have seige engine? That techy , yet I don't see an army of alliance soldier hiding it behind it shooting at the Horde and then getting slaughter when the Horde face them in a melee situation.

I see the Alliance using to barrage Horde encampment while their ground force using strength of arms charge into the Horde and engage them in melee regardless of their size or strength.

So where does the alliance Tech superior make it even up for the Horde? Can anyone give me an example?

If someone also say stone building and wall, does the Alliance only run into castle and wait for the Horde to come?
Edited by Crappytank on 11/7/2012 8:41 AM PST
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11/07/2012 08:41 AMPosted by Crappytank
We have airship, guess what the Horde does too.

Not anymore they don't.
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93 Night Elf Priest
16870
Goblin tech being superior? Yeah, right.
After playing WoW for any amount of time, you'd think that it would be obvious that goblin technology is extremely unreliable and absolutely more dangerous than it is useful most of the time.

Look at the Horde airships. Can you see the two GIGANTIC flaws on it? No? Look at the balloons. Y'know, the fragile balloons full of hot air keeping the airship up in the air...
See the flaws yet? Those things will go down like the Hidenburg at the slightest provocation. Comparatively, the Alliance airships have multiple engines keeping it in the air. If one goes down, the others can take over and let the airship escape to safety. The Horde does not have this luxury.

The technological advantage of the Alliances comes from the fact that what they have is repairable. Reusable. The Horde's war machinery are meant to be a one-time use, and will be a huge drag on resources.. There are lots of Alliance quests that have you bringing repair materials to siege engine in the middle of a battlefield, even by using parts that are meant for other machines.

And finally, don't consider game mechanics to be representative of lore. They obviously have to keep the mobs each faction fight to be evenly matched, so that players actually find mobs to fight.
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470
Goblin tech being superior? Yeah, right.
After playing WoW for any amount of time, you'd think that it would be obvious that goblin technology is extremely unreliable and absolutely more dangerous than it is useful most of the time.

Look at the Horde airships. Can you see the two GIGANTIC flaws on it? No? Look at the balloons. Y'know, the fragile balloons full of hot air keeping the airship up in the air...
See the flaws yet? Those things will go down like the Hidenburg at the slightest provocation. Comparatively, the Alliance airships have multiple engines keeping it in the air. If one goes down, the others can take over and let the airship escape to safety. The Horde does not have this luxury.

The technological advantage of the Alliances comes from the fact that what they have is repairable. Reusable. The Horde's war machinery are meant to be a one-time use, and will be a huge drag on resources.. There are lots of Alliance quests that have you bringing repair materials to siege engine in the middle of a battlefield, even by using parts that are meant for other machines.

And finally, don't consider game mechanics to be representative of lore. They obviously have to keep the mobs each faction fight to be evenly matched, so that players actually find mobs to fight.


There is also the fact the there was no guns used in the war against the Horde in the second war. No bomb, no chemical warfare, nada, just a straight up slug fest.

Then in the third war the footman was the front line, no guns no ammo, waste of resource in armor if technology superior. you cranked out knights also, which were the bone.

In theory all Alliance forces should have switch over to the superiority of guns by now if we are going with tech superiority. I know which quest you are talking about for repairing but that was after the horde have smashed them up sa you can see a whole army of technologically superior siege tank still cannot stand up to strength of arms.
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93 Night Elf Priest
16870
Goblin tech being superior? Yeah, right.
After playing WoW for any amount of time, you'd think that it would be obvious that goblin technology is extremely unreliable and absolutely more dangerous than it is useful most of the time.

Look at the Horde airships. Can you see the two GIGANTIC flaws on it? No? Look at the balloons. Y'know, the fragile balloons full of hot air keeping the airship up in the air...
See the flaws yet? Those things will go down like the Hidenburg at the slightest provocation. Comparatively, the Alliance airships have multiple engines keeping it in the air. If one goes down, the others can take over and let the airship escape to safety. The Horde does not have this luxury.

The technological advantage of the Alliances comes from the fact that what they have is repairable. Reusable. The Horde's war machinery are meant to be a one-time use, and will be a huge drag on resources.. There are lots of Alliance quests that have you bringing repair materials to siege engine in the middle of a battlefield, even by using parts that are meant for other machines.

And finally, don't consider game mechanics to be representative of lore. They obviously have to keep the mobs each faction fight to be evenly matched, so that players actually find mobs to fight.


There is also the fact the there was no guns used in the war against the Horde in the second war. No bomb, no chemical warfare, nada, just a straight up slug fest.

Then in the third war the footman was the front line, no guns no ammo, waste of resource in armor if technology superior. you cranked out knights also, which were the bone.

In theory all Alliance forces should have switch over to the superiority of guns by now if we are going with tech superiority. I know which quest you are talking about for repairing but that was after the horde have smashed them up sa you can see a whole army of technologically superior siege tank still cannot stand up to strength of arms.


I have not played WC2, but its easy to see why humans don't use guns in WC3.
The dwarves already do. What would be the point in having two units doing the same thing? And the footman are hardly a waste of anything. They are durable and nearly immune to ranged weapons, and protect their ranged units better than any other unit. A wall of shields is almost unpenetrable, while you have dwarven guns tearing down opposing units on the other side and knights tear through the enemy like they're nothing.

Back in WC3, dwarven and gnomish technology wasn't widespread to the entire Alliance. Humans were still men in armor with swords sometimes riding horses, and dwarves brought their superior technology to the battlefield. Today, you see human footmen using every kind of weapons, including guns. They don't operate siege weapons, because they have been built for dwarf pilots. But even with that, you still see dwarven and gnomish technology being used more and more in the war, giving themselves a technological the Horde cannot match.
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100 Human Warrior
11085
The Grunt and Footman comparison is stupid. Game Balance and all.

1 Grunt can almost take on 2 footmen yadda yadda, Orc > Humans.
You know a Knight can take on 3 raiders? Human > Orcs.

Everything in this game is a human with a different skin tone and some crazy appendage created by americans that grew up in the 80's.
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90 Human Monk
2640
The Alliance had Flying Machines, submarines and motar teams in WCII.

In WCIII they had Flying machines, motar teams, steam tanks, and rifles.

Airships didn't come about until WoTLK, other than zeppelins.
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470


There is also the fact the there was no guns used in the war against the Horde in the second war. No bomb, no chemical warfare, nada, just a straight up slug fest.

Then in the third war the footman was the front line, no guns no ammo, waste of resource in armor if technology superior. you cranked out knights also, which were the bone.

In theory all Alliance forces should have switch over to the superiority of guns by now if we are going with tech superiority. I know which quest you are talking about for repairing but that was after the horde have smashed them up sa you can see a whole army of technologically superior siege tank still cannot stand up to strength of arms.


I have not played WC2, but its easy to see why humans don't use guns in WC3.
The dwarves already do. What would be the point in having two units doing the same thing? And the footman are hardly a waste of anything. They are durable and nearly immune to ranged weapons, and protect their ranged units better than any other unit. A wall of shields is almost unpenetrable, while you have dwarven guns tearing down opposing units on the other side and knights tear through the enemy like they're nothing.

Back in WC3, dwarven and gnomish technology wasn't widespread to the entire Alliance. Humans were still men in armor with swords sometimes riding horses, and dwarves brought their superior technology to the battlefield. Today, you see human footmen using every kind of weapons, including guns. They don't operate siege weapons, because they have been built for dwarf pilots. But even with that, you still see dwarven and gnomish technology being used more and more in the war, giving themselves a technological the Horde cannot match.


Like where in games does it shows that? And A gun special Gatling guns that they have WOULD be better then any infanty seeing as how they can tear down anything. If the Alliance are really that weak when it comes to melee then they should switch to a range offense like how we did in the real world. When you cannot train a warrior up anymore use guns to even up the odds. That way you dont need train a soldier how to fight just how to hold a gun, line up and fire away in rows after rows.

Using the hunter type of musket they should be able to reload quite a few time and fire volley after volley into the oncoming horde. The fact that they are using swords still is weird IF they are as technologically advance as you say.

I dont think there is one and I think the whole Horde fight better and Alliance have better tech is bull crap. They bought fight just as well and horde tech is actually a match for goblin tech. Sure it is dangerous but it is cheap and easy and can be mass produce, where as Alliance tech make sure their tech is more sturdy and reliable but are fewer in numbers.
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100 Draenei Paladin
9185
The Alliance had a better Navy. With Theramore gone, Kul Tiras missing and no Gilnean ships to be seen im not sure how much stronger it is these days.

The Grunt vs Footman thing? Doesnt mean a thing. A grunt might be stronger but the Footman probably thinks tactically.
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100 Draenei Paladin
9185
Like where in games does it shows that? And A gun special Gatling guns that they have WOULD be better then any infanty seeing as how they can tear down anything. If the Alliance are really that weak when it comes to melee then they should switch to a range offense like how we did in the real world. When you cannot train a warrior up anymore use guns to even up the odds. That way you dont need train a soldier how to fight just how to hold a gun, line up and fire away in rows after rows.

Using the hunter type of musket they should be able to reload quite a few time and fire volley after volley into the oncoming horde. The fact that they are using swords still is weird IF they are as technologically advance as you say.

I dont think there is one and I think the whole Horde fight better and Alliance have better tech is bull crap. They bought fight just as well and horde tech is actually a match for goblin tech. Sure it is dangerous but it is cheap and easy and can be mass produce, where as Alliance tech make sure their tech is more sturdy and reliable but are fewer in numbers.


Thing is what if those Grunts eventually reach the riflemen? Theres a good chance those riflemen will be screwed if they come in close range. Yeah they might be able to fight hand to hand a bit, every soldier knows how to fight but their top skill is ranged combat. You need some good footmen or plate armored troops down there to hold the line. Look at the Gilneas Military, they are pretty advanced and A LOT of their troops use rifles but you still see footmen with sword and shield.
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90 Human Paladin
8315
Grunts are stronger, but Footmen are better equipped and faster. A footman doesnt need to beat back a Grunt. He only needs to hold it off long enough for the rifleman/mage behind him to blow up the grunts head. A grunt has no such ability to prevent the footman from reaching his ally.

Besides: Knights>Raiders and = Ogres
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93 Night Elf Priest
16870


I have not played WC2, but its easy to see why humans don't use guns in WC3.
The dwarves already do. What would be the point in having two units doing the same thing? And the footman are hardly a waste of anything. They are durable and nearly immune to ranged weapons, and protect their ranged units better than any other unit. A wall of shields is almost unpenetrable, while you have dwarven guns tearing down opposing units on the other side and knights tear through the enemy like they're nothing.

Back in WC3, dwarven and gnomish technology wasn't widespread to the entire Alliance. Humans were still men in armor with swords sometimes riding horses, and dwarves brought their superior technology to the battlefield. Today, you see human footmen using every kind of weapons, including guns. They don't operate siege weapons, because they have been built for dwarf pilots. But even with that, you still see dwarven and gnomish technology being used more and more in the war, giving themselves a technological the Horde cannot match.


Like where in games does it shows that? And A gun special Gatling guns that they have WOULD be better then any infanty seeing as how they can tear down anything. If the Alliance are really that weak when it comes to melee then they should switch to a range offense like how we did in the real world. When you cannot train a warrior up anymore use guns to even up the odds. That way you dont need train a soldier how to fight just how to hold a gun, line up and fire away in rows after rows.

Using the hunter type of musket they should be able to reload quite a few time and fire volley after volley into the oncoming horde. The fact that they are using swords still is weird IF they are as technologically advance as you say.

I dont think there is one and I think the whole Horde fight better and Alliance have better tech is bull crap. They bought fight just as well and horde tech is actually a match for goblin tech. Sure it is dangerous but it is cheap and easy and can be mass produce, where as Alliance tech make sure their tech is more sturdy and reliable but are fewer in numbers.


Real life armies didn,t stop using melee weapons the second guns were invented. Even now, soldiers still have combat knives in case of melee combat, because there comes a point where your gun is not useful enough. Something you have to understand is that war isn't a matter of pointing and shooting. The most important part is discipline. When Orcs are charging down your line in a blood rage, it doesn't matter how many guns you have on your side. If one soldier loses its cool and runs away, the entire line crumbles and breaks. A line of footmen will do WONDERS to make the line of ranged fighters keep their formations and fire away. And those ranged fighters STILL need training, because otherwise, you're just picking up people and telling them to point, shoot and kill.

Do you remember how armies fought wars during, say, the civil war? They walked up to each other, while cannon fire rained around them, until they were in range, THEN fired. Guerrila fighting and taking cover wasn't part of the tactics like it is today. Horse riders could flank a marching army, charge them with swords, and be relatively unscathed by gunfire because those guns do little to stop a frenzied animal in full charge.

Now add healers and magic, and the guys who are charging are suddenly a LOT less vulnerable to gunfire.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
3290
The Alliance has Draenei.

Their leader - the Prophet Velen - is over 25,000 years old. And it appears that Draenei don't die of old age (or they age extremely slowly) since many of them in-game were alive before Argus was destroyed. Twenty-five thousand years of martial, divine, arcane, and primal training would be impossible for the younger races to compete with. Imagine how powerful an individual would be in battle with 7 decades of training under his belt. Now imagine that same individual with 7 MILLENIA of accumulated training. Not to mention that Draenei society is ORGANIZED around fighting the Burning Legion. Not exactly a bunch of couch potatoes.

And let's not forget the Night Elves. Again, many of the Kaldorei are over 10,000 years old. Savage fighters able to call upon thousands of years of training in warfare. And they have druids - druids trained by the demigod Cenarius himself.

So I'd give the edge to the Alliance. By a LONG shot.


past a certain point age will not give any more benefits as the person will reach the cap of their skill.just because someone is older it doesnt make them a better fighter, because their skillcap may be lower then that of another fighter with a shorter life-span
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90 Human Mage
13505
Not necessarily earthbreaka, there is always something to learn. There really is no *skillcap* lorewise unless you're an Old God Or Titan of course.
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
Their leader - the Prophet Velen - is over 25,000 years old. And it appears that Draenei don't die of old age (or they age extremely slowly) since many of them in-game were alive before Argus was destroyed. Twenty-five thousand years of martial, divine, arcane, and primal training would be impossible for the younger races to compete with. Imagine how powerful an individual would be in battle with 7 decades of training under his belt. Now imagine that same individual with 7 MILLENIA of accumulated training. Not to mention that Draenei society is ORGANIZED around fighting the Burning Legion. Not exactly a bunch of couch potatoes.

I seriously don't know where people keep getting this 'Velen is super powerful' stuff.

We have never seen the man fight before. And I don't think we will. He's a Prophet, not a Battle Priest. At every turn, he's tried to avoid battle (Which isn't a matter of cowardice, that's just his nature, he'd rather not fight).
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90 Human Mage
13505
It's more of a assumed thing and seeing the way he is with the Light and the Naaru just adds to his *power*.
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100 Human Warrior
11085
The Alliance has Draenei.

Their leader - the Prophet Velen - is over 25,000 years old. And it appears that Draenei don't die of old age (or they age extremely slowly) since many of them in-game were alive before Argus was destroyed. Twenty-five thousand years of martial, divine, arcane, and primal training would be impossible for the younger races to compete with. Imagine how powerful an individual would be in battle with 7 decades of training under his belt. Now imagine that same individual with 7 MILLENIA of accumulated training. Not to mention that Draenei society is ORGANIZED around fighting the Burning Legion. Not exactly a bunch of couch potatoes.

And let's not forget the Night Elves. Again, many of the Kaldorei are over 10,000 years old. Savage fighters able to call upon thousands of years of training in warfare. And they have druids - druids trained by the demigod Cenarius himself.

So I'd give the edge to the Alliance. By a LONG shot.


Age is not an indication of skill. They are wise certainly, better at using a sword? throwing a knife? Doing math? no.
Edited by Martiggan on 11/7/2012 10:49 AM PST
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90 Human Mage
13505
The Alliance has Draenei.

Their leader - the Prophet Velen - is over 25,000 years old. And it appears that Draenei don't die of old age (or they age extremely slowly) since many of them in-game were alive before Argus was destroyed. Twenty-five thousand years of martial, divine, arcane, and primal training would be impossible for the younger races to compete with. Imagine how powerful an individual would be in battle with 7 decades of training under his belt. Now imagine that same individual with 7 MILLENIA of accumulated training. Not to mention that Draenei society is ORGANIZED around fighting the Burning Legion. Not exactly a bunch of couch potatoes.

And let's not forget the Night Elves. Again, many of the Kaldorei are over 10,000 years old. Savage fighters able to call upon thousands of years of training in warfare. And they have druids - druids trained by the demigod Cenarius himself.

So I'd give the edge to the Alliance. By a LONG shot.


Age is not an indication of skill. They are wise certainly, better at using a sword? throwing a knife? Doing math? no.


Pretty sure they're all good at that. V_V
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470
Actually tactics wise, during the civil war with rifle accuracy they learned VERY early on to NOT shoot in rows of line. Revoluntionary war yes, Civil war? No, they ran duck for cover and then peel back so they can go and reload while the next battle formation took over.

If the orcs face that in game , I don' care how superior they are in magic and grunts, they would be destroyed. Melee combat was only use if thousand upon thousand rushed the field when they are out of bullets and it was more clubbing then fighting. Which was what the rifle was use for. the bayonet was use as a spear for the rifle because it was be a waste of material to make a long full fledge sword when you can give them a tiny dagger that extend to their range juust as well.

Not only that if Stormwind and the alliance convert the entirety of their army into rifleman , which given their ability seem in game. They would curb stomp the orcs right now, if they have a technological advantage like people say then making butt wooded rifles + pressing their civilians into the army, the ones that did not make the cut with a sword would be of use holding a rifle and aiming. That should sweet the alliance numbers easily. Looks like gilneans have cannons, so using those should destroy any horde forces that come up against them like right now.

And for the heavy stuff? We got magics with mages, in all logical scenario, the Alliance should be crubstomping the Horde right now...

UNLESS the Alliance does not have technological superiority and the Horde have tech that can match the Alliance. Which would mean the whole alliance have tech advantage is a myth and a Orc is just a slighter stronger human but not unkillable and die just like anyone else.

Also tactic wide it would be stupid to have riflemen shoot into a line of footman engaging orcs because unless they are ALL sharp shooters then you hit the footman and they die. That is why archers was use for infantry, they shoot over the footman shoulders and into the second line of the oncoming enemy peppering them death.

Rifles have to be shoot in a line or from above ground and how many of that would be available when the Horde battle the Alliance?
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