Hord fight better, Ally have better tech myth

85 Tauren Shaman
6230
11/07/2012 04:54 PMPosted by Gollard
Maybe. Might be confusing though being Azeroth better known as the planet instead of the continent/kingdom but i guess the same could be said for Lordaeron.


Don't necessarily need to go back to Azeroth, could come up with another cool name that isn't noun-noun based.
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90 Night Elf Priest
16545
Civil war, revolutionary war, same thing, really. (Joking. I do know the difference between the two, but I mistake the name due to my main language being french.)

But still, any points I was going to say later have been said anyway.
Guns don't kill people. The infection it can give if the bullet wound is not treated does. Orcs have time to win three wars before they notice they have an infection.
A bayonet is not going to stop half a ton of angry muscles when bullets fail to.
Stormwind soldiers are already training to be footmen and knights. Changing things will take time, because not many officers are used to fighting with ranged weapons.

Night elves have the best ranged combatants in all of the Alliance, without any need for guns. In fact, guns would make them weaker. Gunpowder smells, arrows don't. Guns jam, bows don't. Trick shots above or behind cover is impossible with a gun.

Guns are simply not THAT powerful. Not in the WoW universe. If they were, you'd think hunters would be unbeatable.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Civil war, revolutionary war, same thing, really. (Joking. I do know the difference between the two, but I mistake the name due to my main language being french.)

But still, any points I was going to say later have been said anyway.
Guns don't kill people. The infection it can give if the bullet wound is not treated does. Orcs have time to win three wars before they notice they have an infection.
A bayonet is not going to stop half a ton of angry muscles when bullets fail to.
Stormwind soldiers are already training to be footmen and knights. Changing things will take time, because not many officers are used to fighting with ranged weapons.

Night elves have the best ranged combatants in all of the Alliance, without any need for guns. In fact, guns would make them weaker. Gunpowder smells, arrows don't. Guns jam, bows don't. Trick shots above or behind cover is impossible with a gun.

Guns are simply not THAT powerful. Not in the WoW universe. If they were, you'd think hunters would be unbeatable.


You kidding? They're also powerful. :-P
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90 Draenei Paladin
8565
11/07/2012 05:05 PMPosted by Skytotem
Maybe. Might be confusing though being Azeroth better known as the planet instead of the continent/kingdom but i guess the same could be said for Lordaeron.


Don't necessarily need to go back to Azeroth, could come up with another cool name that isn't noun-noun based.


To be honest i really wouldnt mind if it went back to being the Kingdom of Azeroth maybe if there were a few more human kingdoms active. Because Stormwind would most likely be the largest and Azeroth could have two meanings two. Continent and strongest human nation on the planet of Azeroth.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
The two meanings would be confusing. Calling the land Stormwind would be better or...a risky idea but....yeah
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90 Troll Hunter
13060
11/07/2012 05:14 PMPosted by Lorthuron
You kidding? They're also powerful. :-P

In their own right, sure. But the bow is still superior to the type of rifles we have in WoW.

They shoot faster. Don't have recoil. They hit harder. More accurate. Most likely can shoot further (Although a Crossbow would shoot farthest) It's a LOT more difficult to remove an arrow than a bullet. The Orc in the BC cinematic likely got the arrowhead stuck inside of his body, moving around, shredding up his muscles even more. Bullets aren't sharp, they don't do that. Bows are less cumbersome, less expensive, and like Resileaf said, don't jam and don't have a gunpowder smell.

The best way to remove an arrow is to push it through until it comes out of the other side, snap the head, then pull the shaft out where it came in.

And it is just as painful as it sounds.

The main advantage of the gun is that it doesn't require years of training to master, and the BOOM has a psychological effect on the target.
Edited by Pyronaptor on 11/7/2012 5:47 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
8565
11/07/2012 05:29 PMPosted by Lorthuron
The two meanings would be confusing. Calling the land Stormwind would be better or...a risky idea but....yeah


Or just both maybe.. Idk. Maybe an Ironforge type thing. Kingdom of Ironforge/Kindom of Khaz Modan. Eitherway i think what my original point i was trying to make was i wish we still had Stormwind's original Knights/Footmen.
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90 Tauren Paladin
13000
This whole posts reeks. With all the classes and race combinations and each races different strong suits, it's probably a little in the hordes favor. In terms of gadgets and tech, i'd give that to the alliance hands down. They've been fighting the orcs for a long !@# time, they've had to come up with ways to even up the battlefield so they had a more than a fighting chance of holding them back. That's just my thought's on it though.

I was thinking about making a list listing out the strengths and weaknesses of each race and assigning what class was more advantaged on what faction and blah blah blah. But no. Too much time.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Pyro I was making a hunter joke how they're always overpowered :P @Gollard: I was thinking calling the azeroth area new Lordaeron. /shrug
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470
This whole posts reeks. With all the classes and race combinations and each races different strong suits, it's probably a little in the hordes favor. In terms of gadgets and tech, i'd give that to the alliance hands down. They've been fighting the orcs for a long !@# time, they've had to come up with ways to even up the battlefield so they had a more than a fighting chance of holding them back. That's just my thought's on it though.

I was thinking about making a list listing out the strengths and weaknesses of each race and assigning what class was more advantaged on what faction and blah blah blah. But no. Too much time.


Ok exactly what gagdet can be use when you are facing down an over powerful orc. One that is agile and powerful? NONE, no gadget works. What is this technology people talk about that the Alliance have ? What advantage? How is it apply when dealing with the Horde? Why do the Alliance have swords if they can't stand toe to toe against the Horde races anyway?

The way the guns are made in wow is pre WW1. They are ammuntion SHELLS, the only reason why you have shells is because the powered is already inside for them to load in a few second and start firing. That should be what the Alliance is focus on IF they are weaker then the horde.

THe whole point of my post is the Horde and the Alliance can both fight each other one on one. The Horde cannot rolf stomp a human at any given time and the Alliance does not have the mysterious technology that magically even up the odds.

Hence my title that it is a myth
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For a very long time longbows were competitive with early gunpowder weapon irl, just fyi. But ultimately the weapon was uneconomical: it required a lot of training to use well, whereas it was much easier to get a musketeer up to speed. Transition took roughly 300ish years, but pretty much by the 18th century it was complete. Even the English took up the Brown Bess by that point.

Benjamin Franklin was advocating the longbow as late as the Revolutionary war, an oddly reactionary stance for him. Didn't happen, obviously.

NE kind of get around the training issue due to longevity.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8565
11/07/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Crappytank
Why do the Alliance have swords if they can't stand toe to toe against the Horde races anyway?


Once again that is total garbage. Look at the first and second wars. We lost the first war but held off pretty damn good and even pushed them back. We won the Second War. Each soldier is different. Sure most orcs are stronger then humans but most humans think tactically. I dont know how many times it has to be said really but strength isnt everything. Oh yeah, when your big and muscular theres a good chance you arent too fast as i could see a human footman swinging faster.
Edited by Gollard on 11/7/2012 7:53 PM PST
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
11/07/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Crappytank
Why do the Alliance have swords if they can't stand toe to toe against the Horde races anyway?


To fight things smaller than orcs.

But seriously, the fact is that while One to one on perfectly level ground an orc would destroy a human and most other races, but there's RARELY a battlefield or situation that lends itself to that sort of fighting, look at the MoP Cinematic for a rough idea (though that sorta pushed the boundaries imo)
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90 Pandaren Monk
SoF
11250
Technology doesn't mean everything. An example would be Zergs vs Protoss. The Protoss have superior tech and they have been consistently asswhooped by the Zergs.
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470
@i know the history of the long bow, up to 400 yards and can perice through plate mail. Trianing for it requires starting at a young age and to practice pulling on a bow every day to build up the muscle for it. As they grow older their bows are replaced with longer and heavier bows. George washington once saud if he had 500 bowmen the english woyld be liked almost instantly.

However the longbow went the way of the dinosaurs completely when shell rounds were invemted. Rifle ranged increased also played a part of it and the trianing only take a fraction of the time.

I don't know if you noticed but.the hunters here can confirm that we do have bullet shells for guns in wow. It's no longer musket balls.

@ Gollard. Chris metzen the lore guy wrote in his book, Of Blood and Honor that orcs are strong fast and agile who are also capable of stealth.

@Skytotem. Which bring me to the myth that horde are better fighters while the Alliance tech gives them an advantage.

It's false, the have no magical edge in technology that hold the horde back and an orc cannot simply destroy a human one on one if on the same playing field. That orc grunt is 50/50 at best against a footman.

The alliance does not need swords to fight smaller foea either, they can do even bettee from range with a rifle and using half the effort. Point and shoot.

@the zerg protoss anology would have been accurate if the horde outnumbered the Alliance 20 to one. That was the only way they killed 500 british soldier in the movie the four feather , that was how custard died, and that was how the alamo fell.

Yet some would say the horde have smaller numbers the the alliance if not roughly equal now. If anything with a smaller horde population, the horde should have higher tech to hold off the barbarian alliance. If the have the tech advantage then they should be teching up right now and swelling their numbers easily.

Because a single bullet can cripple an orc blade master easy enough , especailly with the shell casing. Unless Horde fight better and Alliance have better tech is a lie.

Give me an example of where Alliance tech help the footman of the Alliance or the fromt line warriors.
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90 Troll Hunter
13060
11/08/2012 09:09 AMPosted by Crappytank
I don't know if you noticed but.the hunters here can confirm that we do have bullet shells for guns in wow. It's no longer musket balls.

No, it's still pretty much Musket Balls.

There's plenty of quests that have you pick them up from corpses.

We still load each individual shot into our rifles.

Musket Balls.

11/08/2012 09:09 AMPosted by Crappytank
Give me an example of where Alliance tech help the footman of the Alliance or the fromt line warriors.

Tech doesn't always include rifles and flying machines.

Better forged steel is also an example of better technology, and the Alliance has more resources than the Horde to make better quality weapons and armor.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8565
Gollard. Chris metzen the lore guy wrote in his book, Of Blood and Honor that orcs are strong fast and agile who are also capable of stealth.


It still doesnt make a difference. Like i said, human are tactical where as it seems most orcs have the strength. Battle isnt just about strength it is also about tactics and skill.

11/08/2012 09:09 AMPosted by Crappytank
they can do even bettee from range with a rifle and using half the effort. Point and shoot.


Also on that. You know you would have to re train pretty much ever soldier within the Alliance other than the current riflemen. You would have to retrain the night elves who have been using bows for thousands of years and every seasoned human footman would be basically a recruit. This would weaken the forces of the Alliance and cost the time, money and resources it doesnt have right now. Think about it. Say you have a high ranked human military commander who has been fighting as a footman (warrior/paladin) since the Second War, hes probably a good fighter and a good commander who has seen a lot of action and taken down a lot of enemies with his sword.

So the Alliance becomes an all Rifleman Army but hold on a second, all that combat experienced he had fighting as a footman is now useless, it will be like going back to bootcamp all over again but to learn a new skill. Now picture the Alliance having to do this with hundreds of thousands of troops and commanders. Plus in a time of war itself, it wouldnt be pretty and it would be a mess. Let Gilneas and Ironforge stay to the riflemen role and keep Darnassus and Stormwind to the Footman/Archer role. Stormwind and humanity itself has a long history of Footmen/Knights, that is their major skill. The Night Elves are high class archers and have been doing it for a LONG time. nothing is wrong there. Gilneas and Ironforge have rifle fighting in their blood, let them stick to it. The way the alliance fighting roles are right now is fine. If its not broke dont fix it.

If anything the Alliance might want to start fielding more Knights in battle to aid the footmen and if there is ever the time we really need some ranged fighters we can just field some Gilneans or Dwarves.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8565
11/08/2012 09:20 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
Better forged steel


Beat me to it. Technology isnt just gadgets and electric shock death weapons or vehicles, any steel weapon is technology. The humans and dwarves are good blacksmiths and have lots of experience in fighting and crafting.
Edited by Gollard on 11/8/2012 9:32 AM PST
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470
Oh yes better steel. Wow what a great advantage. I myself have never heard if a single instance where horde weaponry and tech failed them im the frist, second third, vanilla,tbc, wrath, cata or now panderen. Not one, seems to me they got great weaponsmith of thwir own that make great durable weapons on par with the alliance.

@gollars, the footman now should be the last if it's kind and switch over to guns and their armor pericing rounds which they have. When I get back i'll link the shell encase bullets gunnera could use. If they made that there is a tech for it and their weaponry should change to relect that, footman are obsolete with the advent of alliance tech and should be replace within the generatiom. 3 month basic triaing and 3 years officers triaining was howw long it took them in the 1800.
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