What's up w/ r. druids and regen?

90 Worgen Druid
9935
This isn't a spirit issue. I just came back to the game after a bit of break..and so I did a MSV run w/ a shaman and a disc priest.

6-ish minute fight?

Mana gained by priest? 925k
By Shaman? 410k
By me? 210.

We need replenishment back.
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Yep...
But druids are mostly in self denial.
They tell they are a good class everyday to thyself in front of the mirror, wile top raiders all change to bookin, bear or cat, because they bring the same utilities without being sub-par.

Many top raiders said already that resto druids are the worst healers ATM because of the lack of replenishment.
(Oh and just to remember everyone, this will only gets worse as gear goes up, since our mana regen doesnt scale with gear, and most of other classes does in a way or another, we just scales linearly with spirit, other classes scales either with spirit and a secondary stats, or with spirit and spirit like disc priests...)

We already have less mana, and that makes us unable to pre-hot, and this problem will only gets worse as the tiers progress... but no change, not even a single word was sayd by the developers. We are already on one of the final builds of the PTR and we received 0 help...

I fear the day that gear progresses, and we still be gemming spirit to deal with the necessary mana for encounters, wile other healers will be gemming and reforging full throughput stats, making our weak hps look even worse...

Sad thing that we must either boomkin/feral/guardian or reroll...
Edited by Sàtàn on 11/13/2012 11:58 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
9545
I don't think its about total regen vs how much your heals are healing for. If our heals do more healing per mana than other healers then it balances out.

I find I only run out of mana when I start trying to rejuv everything because my other heals can't handle the incoming damage. Other than that I can make it through fights just fine.
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Yep, but we are foced to spam reju to heal the damage other healers have better toolkit to deals with.

If you look at all fights this tier, you will make through almost no one without the need of pre-hot and spam of reju, and this extinguish our mana.
Either they need to buff WG back to the way it was, and buff mushrooms to an state almost like it was on beta prior to nerf, or we need a massive buff to regen to compensate for our dependency on rejuvenation spam and pre-hotting style of healing.

In beta we were doing great because MW:B was really good, costed low mana and healed by a reasonable amount, making it a part of our rotation because we needed its lower cost to keep mana wile doing descent HPS.
They removed it because they didnt want it to be rotational, but only situational, making an amazing skill totally useless.
Now we lack a proper rotation, or the mana to deal with the lack of an effective rotation.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9545
I agree with the rejuv spam. Sadly though Rejuv and Regen hasn't reached the point where we can spam it. I think lots of druids want to see Wild Growth buffed and Mushrooms actually worth using.

I have no problem with situational mushrooms. That is easily fixed by putting a 30-45sec cooldown on bloom.

I still don't like placing mushrooms. I did it all through cata for AoE damage and I'm glad that mechanic is gone. I don't really want to go back to spamming mushrooms on Cooldown during AoE.
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I understand your opinion on mushrooms. So far i have no problem with placing them, if they were worth the GCD's... lol

The problem i see with this "mystical" point were we will be able to use Reju alot, is that we will need to keep Reforging for Spirit, and Gemming for spirit, way past 12k of Spirit to reach this, maybe even 15k.
I know that with 10.5k we are still really far from this point were we can pre-hot each big damage of the fight, or atlast the most important ones.

When this mystical point finally reach us, we will be focusing so much on regen on gear that our throughput will be even more lacking then its today. Other healers will be gemming full int or mastery and laughing at our pathetic heals, because they will scale way better then us, because they can gem and reforge OUT of spirit, instead of stacking even more of it.
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90 Worgen Druid
9935
I just think it's kind of ridiculous that a disc priest can regen 3x his mana pool, and easily outheal me over the course of a fight. That's not even remotely balanced..
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90 Human Rogue
2860
The classes aren't all the same. So you can't gauge one class by another's mana regeneration. Monks seem to have the most mana return atm, but spend a lot more mana as well. Something to think about. I've noticed disc burns through mana very quickly.
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I've two heal'd the first five bosses in MSV (when we did attempts on Will, we went ahead and 3 heal'd it) and two heal'd Zor'lok (we only threw about 5 attempts at Ta'yak because of time, we were trying that too).

I heal with a disc priest, and so far the only fight I've ev er had "real" trouble on is Feng (when people are retarded) or Ta'yak (topping people off fast enough after unseen strike).

As for mana problems, my only remark is "what's dat?". Sure, I stack spirit (have close to 9.6k right now), and only went for the 4617 haste break point, but currently it's working for me.
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I have ~10k and i can say that we are still weaker.
All raiders of top guilds i talked to sayd the same thing "Resto druids are useless since replenish removal."
Some also cited mushroom nerf from beta, and others the cata nerf to WG.

We can do all the fights, but druids are in self denial trying to think themselfs as a good class when right now every sane person knows that druids are the WORST healer atm.
Edited by Sàtàn on 11/14/2012 10:11 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12505
Druid regen really is low and should be addressed.

One of the easiest fixes would be to add some offensive mana regen ability. Priests have PW: Solace for mana, Shamans have LB with telluric currents glyph (should br baseline), Pallies can melee for mana with seal of insight, and monks can melee for free heals. Druids have nothing but the occasional OOC.

I would change Wrath to cost zero mana and return 1% mana on cast. Easy fix. The thing that bugs me the most on my druid is having nothing to do between heals. In other xpacs you could afford the mana to dps to stay busy, but mana is too precious now. You just stand there waiting to spend your mana wisely.
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90 Tauren Druid
5015
This isn't a spirit issue. I just came back to the game after a bit of break..and so I did a MSV run w/ a shaman and a disc priest.

6-ish minute fight?

Mana gained by priest? 925k
By Shaman? 410k
By me? 210.

We need replenishment back.


Let your DoTs tick for their full duration. Innervate.

Rinse and repeat.

It is not as big of an issue as you think.
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... Jabbadabba seems you really never played resto.
We lack the mana to KEEP the Hots their for their own duration.
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100 Night Elf Druid
10665
I have had mana issues on some fights, but usually it was during the first pull or two when everything went wrong and we would have wiped anyway. Then on the next pull I was smarter about my healing and mana management and didn't have as many issues.

I certainly would like to have Replenishment back tho.
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Phaydre:
We can do the fights. Its just that we will have crap HPS if we do not use Reju to pre-hot and raid heal, and if we use it we will OOM, its a simple fact.

We need to use reju smart and all, everyone knows that, but in the end using it smart means healing reactively not pre-hotting, and with this we suck because most of the hot time will be overhealing because of other healers aoe heals.

We need to pre-hot to heal as efficiently as other healers because we lack aoe burst healing.
But we cant pre-hot efficiently with our mana regen mechanics, so we suck.
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90 Worgen Druid
Lux
11730
I sort of experimentally ran 7000 Spirit through a normal MSV last night where all fights were two-healed, me and a holy priest. It was a 1-shot on the first four bosses, while we got Elegon on the third pull and Will on the fourth. So 11 boss pulls total. We didn't have a shaman for mana tide, though we did have the occasional hymn.

I dipped below 35% mana (when my alarm goes off) on three pulls...the Elegon and Will kills and another particularly bad Will pull. I never dropped to 25% (which I pay attention to since I'm trying to evaluate how useful that part of the Jade Spirit enchant would be).

This isn't heroic content of course, but most people visiting these forums probably aren't doing heroics yet. And I don't expect that everyone will want to even think about dropping spirit...it's a playstyle decision that I made, and not everyone would like it or do well at it. But I am suggesting that the answer to "we don't have enough regen" might be something other than "give us more regen."

Comparing our regen to classes who have different mechanics is a complete and total picture-book definition of a straw man. Different healing classes are different.
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Barandis: So your priest is very good and carried you, gj.
Its simple, if you end the fight without expending your mana, it means you didnt use reju. If you descide to avoid using reju to keep your mana, you will be healing for alot less.

We arent saying that we need more regen because others have more regen.
We need more regen because we need to use reju as pre-hot to keep with other healing classes, and we lack the mana to do that right now.

So either change our toolkit to deal with spiked raid aoe damage, or improve our regen so we can spam reju to deal with the problems in our toolkit.

Edit: Just as an additional note, losing 2000k of Spirit will only give you enough Int or Mastery to increase your healing by ~3-4%. And you will reduce your mana pool for that fight for ~8% or more.

So yeah, its not your 3 or 4% more healing that is making you aweasome and others suck.
And id like to remember you that all top guilds are benching druids.
Edited by Sàtàn on 11/14/2012 1:21 PM PST
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