Paladin shield of the righteous uptime

90 Tauren Paladin
9745
To keep up our active mitigation we have to get 5100 exp rating. Was wondering if this was intended or not. If not could you possibly add onto our abilities that generate holy power to give us a holy power even if there is a miss, dodge, or parry.
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1 Draenei Paladin
0
Ok I'll get right on it.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
I was going to find someones log/uptime vs their expertise but SOMEONE decided to logout in ret gear and not log >:|
Edited by Ðemolition on 11/14/2012 3:38 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12800
>.>
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13960
You don't have to hit 15% exp, but it helps. I've noticed a huge difference since I went from 7.5hit / 7.5exp to 7.5hit / 15exp and started to favor haste over mastery.
Edited by Sedrea on 11/14/2012 8:54 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15765
Hit capped and hard expertise capped I can usually maintain 45 to 55% sotr uptime.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/gbovzoaboe49ryve/
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
Hit capped and hard expertise capped I can usually maintain 45 to 55% sotr uptime.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/gbovzoaboe49ryve/


I'm no expert on reading the logs, so correct me if I am wrong.
From your link, i clicked Players > Paladin > Vecks
Check the tab -> BUFFS GAINED & BUFFS CAST
They both show SHotR at 26.9%
I see bastion of glory at 54.8%, but this is not the same mitigating buff and can stay on for a long time until you cast WoG.
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100 Human Warlock
18010
Hit capped and hard expertise capped I can usually maintain 45 to 55% sotr uptime.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/gbovzoaboe49ryve/


I'm no expert on reading the logs, so correct me if I am wrong.
From your link, i clicked Players > Paladin > Vecks
Check the tab -> BUFFS GAINED & BUFFS CAST
They both show SHotR at 26.9%
I see bastion of glory at 54.8%, but this is not the same mitigating buff and can stay on for a long time until you cast WoG.

Make sure you're looking at specific fights and not overall. He's probably not keeping a high uptime on trash.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
11/14/2012 06:59 PMPosted by Serinicas
Make sure you're looking at specific fights and not overall. He's probably not keeping a high uptime on trash.


Ahh, gotchya!

Makes sense now, thanks.

EDIT-* WILL OF THE EMPEROR 47.9%, well played good sir
Edited by Slabovic on 11/14/2012 7:15 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
11/14/2012 03:22 AMPosted by Crrenze
To keep up our active mitigation we have to get 5100 exp rating. Was wondering if this was intended or not. If not could you possibly add onto our abilities that generate holy power to give us a holy power even if there is a miss, dodge, or parry.


Tanks deriving defensive benefit from hit and expertise is an intentional design change they mentioned they were going to do when Firelands came out. The only variance is how much it helps you compared to other stats, and each tank is different in that regard.

Paladins happen to favor it a lot.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16015
Dude, our active midigation is a joke. My tanking midigation is more passive these days than it's ever been since I rolled this toon back in Wrath. We hit SotR to improve our WoG, yet if we are hitting with SotR, we rarely need to use WoG. And if we actually do need WoG, there is no time to build up stacks. Yes, the intent is to use WoG at 5 stacks to reactively midigate unblocked/unblockable damage, but if your healer is competent, you almost never need a 5 stack WoG. And if you Healer is incompetent, a 5 stack WoG is not going to keep save you!

Pallies are no longer Heal-Tanks like we were pre-Cata, nor are we pure Block-Tanks that Cata forced upon us. We are Bubble-Tanks, spamming Sacred Shield, wielding Seal of Insight, and stacking hit/exp to keep Colossus proc'd. At this time, our Mastery is so weak, its functionally useless. At the End Game, our Mastery will probably be tops and the envy of all other tanks, but at the moment its garbage.

Up through Wrath and into early Cata, Holy Shield took a 96969 rotation to maintain, which was quite active from the point of view that we should never let it slip off. With Cata, we gained WoG and for a time had true Active Midigation unit Blizz in their infinite wisdom decided a 20 sec CD on WoG would solve a few balancing issues, and shifting Holy Shield over to a button we had to either carefully time or marco for max-uptime. That wrecked our ability to actively midigation damage, forcing us to rely fully on CTC capping. Now in MoP we have the worst Activite Midigation model of all time, functionally relying on passive stat stacking to survive melee while allowing our "active" abilities to passively stack to reduce the workload on our healers. What the hell is "Active" about that? The fact that we have to attack to get all those passive buffs going, like we did all the way up to Cata?

In the end, who cares about our Shield of the Righteous uptime? Its the only Holy Power dump we have that is useful most of the time, so of course we are going to spam it every chance we can get. And since Holy Power generates fast these days, SotR is the 4th button we hit in our FCFS rotation, keeping its uptime maxed as all get out. It would almost be better to glyph for Harsh Words and use our 5 stacks to hurt the enemy than sit on it when our health is topped off.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

SJ
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12800
11/15/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Obernaughti
In the end, who cares about our Shield of the Righteous uptime?


I care about it. Your healers care about it.

Things like Thrash and Furious Swipe and Voodoo Dolls make having good uptime on it worth while, and more importantly, proper TIMING of when to use it.

For stuff like trash, or a mostly meleeing boss with casting abilities, uptime would be more valuable (usually) than timing correctly.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
You answered your own question:

In the end, who cares about our Shield of the Righteous uptime?

11/15/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Obernaughti
We hit SotR to improve our WoG, yet if we are hitting with SotR, we rarely need to use WoG.


Pallies are no longer Heal-Tanks like we were pre-Cata


wut

At this time, our Mastery is so weak, its functionally useless.


wut

That wrecked our ability to actively midigation damage, forcing us to rely fully on CTC capping.


wut.

Did you actually play a tankadin in wrath? I did. If you self-healed as a prot pallie in wrath, you were doing it wrong. If you weren't kepping sacred shield up on yourself, you were doing it wrong (or a holy pally was doing it for you)

Moreover you're saying tankadins aren't heal-tanks and then complain about all their automatic self-healing!

Now in MoP we have the worst Activite Midigation model of all time, functionally relying on passive stat stacking to survive melee while allowing our "active" abilities to passively stack to reduce the workload on our healers.


You mean like every tank now?

Its the only Holy Power dump we have that is useful most of the time, so of course we are going to spam it every chance we can get. And since Holy Power generates fast these days, SotR is the 4th button we hit in our FCFS rotation, keeping its uptime maxed as all get out. It would almost be better to glyph for Harsh Words and use our 5 stacks to hurt the enemy than sit on it when our health is topped off.


Except harsh words doesn't mitigate damage, and Shield of the Righteous DOES.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

SJ


It's the wrong opinion because it is based on factually incorrect statements and assumptions.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Everything Obernaught said


No.
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100 Human Paladin
13675
11/15/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Obernaughti
and stacking hit/exp to keep Colossus proc'd


Trolololol!

Are you trolling us here? I sure as hell hope you don't seriously believe what you said.
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90 Human Paladin
7505
1. SoTR uptime is the most important thing you can value

2. Get your expertise as high as you can, no 15% is not necessary, especially if you are in a 25 man raiding team.

3. Get Haste; more Haste = more Holy Power = More SoTR = Less Dmg Taken

4. Get Haste; more Haste = Cooldowns available faster

End of story. There is no arguing with this. The math is out, math doesn't lie. You may not like it, but that's how it is. Those of you who choose to not follow these rules above, choose to not be the best they can and I feel bad for whatever guild you choose to tank that way for.
Edited by Savior on 11/16/2012 11:24 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12800
11/16/2012 11:22 AMPosted by Savior
End of story. There is no arguing with this. The math is out, math doesn't lie. You may not like it, but that's how it is. Those of you who choose to not follow these rules above, choose to not be the best they can and I feel bad for whatever guild you choose to tank that way for.


Says one who seems to be trying both at the same time, with barely over 1550 haste.

To be honest, at the moment I think it's worth more to have the control than more up time. That isn't to say that more up time is bad, not at all. I'm just saying being able to reliable SotR when needed through hit/exp caps, and Mastery, at the moment is likely worth slightly more for things like Thrash, Furious Swipe, and Voodoo Doll. But that's because I'm still under hit/exp. Once I can hit that, and shift more budget into Mastery, I probably will honestly move from Mastery to Haste. You'll be able to make up the loss in Mastery partially through a 4pc bonus.

Don't take what I say as gospel or anything, though. That's just my thoughts on the matter, and there's varying opinions. Including not going for hit/exp at all and stacking stam full blown.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16015
I love how how our society simply cannot read for content.

Yes, I tanked in Wrath, hence my pointing out how we tanked in Wrath.

I stated we are no longer Heal-tanks, and pointed out that WoG is functionally useless as it stands (not the spell, but the dynamic tanking model we are in). WoG was awesome from patch 4.0.6 to patch 4.1, when we were able to maintain an absorb bubble from overheals. Since them the only self-healing we do is either passive maintenance or reactive panic ("Holy F! Where's the healer!?!").

As to Harsh Words, if you bothered to notice I said it would almost be worth using it than sit on a 5 stack of WoG when we don't need it. Keywords: almost, sitting on, don't need it. I did not advocate using Harsh Words, just pointed out that one useless ability is like any other.

And yes, I thought my comment on Colossus was funny, forgetting that the interwebs has no humor outside of cat memes.

SJ
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
If Paladins were heal tanks in wrath, what were they healing with? Only thing I remember using to heal was Lay on Hands.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12800
11/17/2012 02:32 PMPosted by Kickgruntler
If Paladins were heal tanks in wrath, what were they healing with? Only thing I remember using to heal was Lay on Hands.


That's the only thing I can remember healing with really.

Oh, I suppose I did a few Holy Light's and Flashes when there wasn't anything hitting me, but... it sure wasn't by any stretch 'healing.' I've done more 'healing' now than ever before between SoI, BH for raid, SS for absorbs, and WoG for self healing. I would probably WoG more if I could get an absorb shield out of it like it did when we had Guarded by the Light providing one.
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