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My guild had a nice 2 hours of wiping tonight on Garalon and I was just looking to hear some insight on how people managed the pheromones.
I watched some videos on Garalon kills and some groups were cycling through ~5 people at ~15 stacks. Other groups were having the tanks take large stacks of pheromone and then swap it to a ranged then back to the tanks. We were trying the swap at 15-20 strategy at first thinking that we would only need 3 people for it but clearly that was wrong. Since our raid is sitting at 3 mele DPS and 2 ranged (we are currently 3 healing but this may change when we get a strategy down) that left us in a position to have 2 healers take the pheromones or 1 healer and 1 mele which obviously lowers our dps (and possibly lead to us hitting enrage). Having several healers take the pheromones wasn't working too well for us and with our large amount of mele they were some what forced to. Which is why we were leaning toward the tanks taking some of the pheromones. Thoughts?
Have the tanks handle at least two of the pheremones. If you're three healing, a healer can handle a third. That leaves either another healer (could get sloppy if you're not careful, but it sounds like you tried that anyway) or a ranged to take the fourth.
If you're using four people, something around 20-22 stacks a person sounds about right, but it may be slightly less. If you're using just three people, you have to take it to around 30-32 I believe. I don't really remember the exact numbers offhand. For the sake of your healers, unless you're hitting the enrage, I advise going with four.
90 Human Warrior
I did this on LFR, so this little trick may or may not work. Anyway, here is what I found to be quite interesting and in need of dire hotfix:
The pheromone debuff will stick to a player after they die. This means that you can use one person as a "Die for the cause" sorta thing. Technique: Have the bait run to one side of the room and pull Garalon. Let Garalon give him pheromone and kill him. Don't run across that player. Who you use (that is, if this actually works for another day) is negotiable. I'd probably pick a healer or scrubby DPS.
we used a tank to start it off.
Then a healer.
Then a ranged.
Then another healer.
Back to tank ...
One tank went DPS and a plate DPS soaked with the other tank to increase DPS.
We realized for us splitting up the two healers helped the healers so one was not trying to pass to a second one and two healers were always free to focus on healing at all times.
I would think having two tanks as the kiters would be highly problematic.
I haven't successfully killed Garalon with my Guild yet, but we are going to begin working on him.
Here are a few concerns I would have, having the tanks kite:
Spikey damage -> The tanks are already taking a lot of damage from the swipes they are absorbing.
Pheramone Pools -> I like the idea of having ranged / healers manage the Pheramone debuff simply because the placement of the pools woudl be much more organized (theoretically). Having two tanks with these debuffs could make for extremely messy pools and mobility issues later into the fight.
Accidental Pheramone Passing -> With the 4 legs and the space between the DPS and Tanks, I could see people accidently grabbing the Pheramone debuff by mistake.
Those are probably my top 3 concerns, and there are many more. I'm not sure if these concerns can be validated by someone who has actually succeeded with the encounter?
At any rate there is my two cents.
The dmg to the tanks isn't that much higher. Unless your tanks are in full dps gear or are really just plate dps acting as "tanks" the dmg from swipes isnt that high. I actually found it much easier to heal Garalon during the times that the tanks were taking the pheromones.
To not get accidental swapping, well nobody should be in swipe range except for the tanks to begin with. Only exception would be the ranged dps/healer who is currently running in/out to swap with said tank, which should be timed to happen right after a swipe occurs.
For the pools, your tanks just need to know how to do it really. I haven't seen ours having much of a problem organizing pools while staying close to the max range of swipe.
I need some help regarding this fight.
Last night we tried some strategies, but we wiped several times. On our best try, we managed to get Garalon to 30%. Two tanks and two healers took the pheromones, but then we had some trouble with healing the DPS and some of us died (mostly because of cleave).
However, we think our best strategy was having one healer and three DPS taking the pheromones. Our Resto Shaman started, then I got it, then a hunter anf finally a mage. Since Garalon is in range most of the times, we could apply dots and even casting its body and legs while the melee (two DK and one Warrior) killed focused on the legs.
Garalon's health went down faster until someone died.
But we still wiped. So, what strategy would you guys do with our group? It would be great to get some help, since we'll try again tonight.
Cheers from Brazil!
Yeah I think some people have 1 tank grabbing pheromones initially but after that it's just DPS. It's a lot easier for healers and DPS to do it. Unless you have really geared plate DPS in the cleave you're going to tend to get crapped on if the tanks aren't the ones soaking.
You should be fine with DPS and healers doing them. Just make sure you call out when you're switching, make sure people aren't standing in the trails, make sure you are ready for CDs when the swaps happen for crushes, and make sure it doesn't get swapped back and forth during the crush (if the two people don't get away from each other). Other than that all there is to it is making sure the kiters aren't standing in the cleave (sometimes they have to run across the room if the boss is getting close instead of just slowly dropping the trail).
Just looked at the logs for a couple of your attempts. DPS is pretttty low tbh. Yours is particularly low (~38-40k). Some of it is just getting used to DPSing with pheromones. It looks like most of you are using the weak point buffs, so I'm not really sure why the DPS is that low. As Affliction you should think about going GoSup and using the Observer. You should be DoTing up all active legs while also keeping DoTs up on the body (usually when I'm running Pheromones I just keep them up on the body for that time, but when I'm not running them I have every available leg DoTed). Have a macro for your observer thats something like
/petattack Garalon's leg (or w/e it's called)
then another one to switch back to /petassist when all the legs are dead. This way your pet will run into the weak points to DPS legs no matter what you're doing. There might be an easier way to do it in one macro saying like petattack leg [if exists] or something but I'm not sure how to write that one, so I use 2 macros (not too tough). The pet should get the weak point buff (particularly good for far legs especially if the rest of your raid isn't focusing them).
So for everyone that's not running the pheromone (everyone but 1 DPS/healer and the 2 tanks who are in the cleave) you want to stack on the outside of the boss and slowly turn with him. Melee should have the close legs, range should be killing far legs. Some people will argue that killing the body and leaving up the far back leg is better DPS, which it might be, but I know that for HM Garalon we were killing all the legs and it worked. If you leave that back leg up then you just need to worry about the two closest to you which melee can cleave (you can help too with KJC since you don't lose anything by moving to the weak points) and tanks with the help of range DoTs can kill the inside front leg.
As long as you're prepared for crushes, the runners aren't screwing up, and everyone is keeping their uptimes high then it's a kill. There really isn't any excuse to have low DPS uptime on this boss. The only time it's hectic for DPS at all is if they're running, and only 2 DPS are doing that. You might also try 2 healing it and seeing how your healing CDs work with the crushes. I'm not a healer, but I know that shaman are particularly good for this fight so you might be able to get away with 2 healing it (we use shaman + druid).
Our group 3 heals it (myself as mostly Atonement Disc) and with 3 melee you should easily be able to run 3 healers. For pheremones, we have all 3 healers and one ranged dps trade at 20 stacks. This lets the dps just focus legs while 2 heals are always covering them. The kiting healer still covers the tanks and melee they can reach. We also typically only run one tank and have one of the melee also stand in crushes. Increases the healing needed a bit as even in plate they get hit kinda hard but there's usually plenty of time to get them back up.
We 3 heal/0 DPs'd it at first. We had our DK "tank" start with pheremones, then rotated the 3 healers. Had a fire mage on backup in case we thought the stacks were getting too high.
Since then we just 3 heal/2 tank and have 1 tank and 3 healers do pheremones.
Edited by Dayuv on 1/17/2013 7:26 AM PST
We got our first kill of this last week after the 2nd week of working on him.
We have 2 tanks (druid/monk), 3 heals (hpally, rsham, dpriest). Our dps is a ret,warrior,lock,hunter,mage. Obviously the 2 tanks are in front for the cleave, and our disc priest stays in the middle as a non-kiter doing most of his healing via attonement and abusing spirit shell. Our rotation is lock (pulls and portals back out of cleave range), then me, then our hunter then our shammy. The next healer in line is responsible for the dps currently kiting and themselves, while the other healer is helping the disc priest with the raid. We take it to 21 stacks, but call out at 15 so that people can be topped up for the crush damage, or so that spirit shell can be applied if available.
The number of kiters/stacks is really going to be dependent on the ability of the healers, and also frankly whether it will gain you enough dps to risk a more moderate "oops" resulting in a wipe, assuming that you can kill it with 3 healers.
The other thing to watch for is where you pull him to initially. We were originally pulling him into the back right corner to start, but the melee were screaming like crazy cause the legs went everywhere at the start. We've now gone with pulling him straight back to the stairs and working clockwise around the room. This allows the melee to start on the back wall and get way more up time at the start under lust to blow up the legs.
I'll say on our initial pulls i was really questioning whether we had the dps numbers to do this fight, but in the first night we went from being like 5 min plus behind on enrage to a 415k wipe (derped on the last handoff :| ). Once people are used to his behavior as he moves and the kiters get more comfortable with it things will improve.
Last night was my first time as a pheromone guy, so I messed up a bit. Hopefully things like my skill will improve lol.
Before that, we started by killing the back right leg and then anti-clockwise, but eventually one of the legs goes through the wall or stays too close to the trail. After some wipes we decided that the DPS should try to take the pheromones.
I'll try the Observer thing. I'll be able to control it while taking the pheromones.
After many wipes, I'm glad to say that Garalon is DEAD! We killed him last friday. I had this reply on my pc since saturday, but I forgot to post it :)
We went with a different strategy and changed a few things.
Our mage suggested that him and I should focus on the boss' body, leaving the legs for the melee. He would spam Combustion so he could spread some damage to the legs. If any should appear in range, I DoTed them to help melee. We were also in charge of killing any leg that was too far away from the rest of the group or on the pheromone trail.
Our priest switched from Discipline to Holy, so he could AOE heal us.
We decided to attack the back legs first. Therefore, the DPS went to the left side of the room and zerged them right after the tank got aggro. Then the melee moved anticlokwise to kill the other two.
Everytime a leg was too far away for the melee to kill it, the ranged focused on it. Meanwhile, the melee hit the boss' body.
Another thing that helped a lot was the healing cooldown timing. The healers showed great coordination and kept our health above 60-70+% on the last 15% of the fight. The killblow was dealt to a leg that spawned right in front of us.
Below is our raid comp and duties for this fight. It may help similar/identical groups:
1 Blood DK - Tank and pheromones
1 Prot Warrior - Tank and pheromones
1 Resto Druid - Pheromones
1 Resto Shaman - Pheromones
1 Holy Priest - Raid healing and pheromone backup
1 Fire Mage - Boss' body (and legs, when he used Combustion) and far leg(s)
1 Aff Warlock - Boss' body (SB:SoC and DoT to some legs) and far leg(s)
1 Ret Paladin - Legs
2 Frost DK - Legs
PS: Thanks for the explanation Loktronotron! I actually had my Observer and macros ready. I suggested that, but the rest of the guys went with the strategy above. Well, at least we have another option for next week! Cheers!
We are stuck at the enrage. 5% repeatedly. We just can't seem to break this. We've tried like 7 different group compositions and different strategies with the same result.
Tank, healer, and myself in kiting rotation. I can kite and still put up 80K overall.
Most of our DPS are above 80K overall. A couple of them 90-100K. It varies wildly depending on how lucky we get with leg spawns
We blow away all four legs with hero at the start.
We then let the tanks have front right leg.
We ignore back right leg most of the time, as its usually riding the wall.
We'll DPS down that leg on occasion if opportunity suits us.
When we have 2 melee on legs, ranged leave them alone. They handle the two left legs. Front right for tanks, back right largely ignored.
Prot paladin soaking/kiting ~ 30K DPS
Fury warrior soaking ~ 80K DPS
Myself - Elemental - Kiting ~ 75-80K DPS
Frost DK ~90-100K DPS
Shadow Priest ~80K
Boomkin ~ 90K
All numbers overall entire duration. Obviously at the start some of us are doing 120-150K. I can also put up substantial numbers if I don't kite - but we've learned that I'm the highest DPS while kiting. Everyone else drops too much so I'm the unlucky one >_>
5% enrage, every time. I'm stumped. Doesn't change much if we have 4 person rotation, or 3 person rotation. 3 person rotation much harder on the healers too, causes accidental deaths. It doesn't change much if we "reserve" or ignore legs, or DPS all of them open season.
Sounds like you just need to put out more damage if you're consistently wiping at enrage.
Make sure everyone's doing everything they possibly can to do the most DPS they can do. Enchants, gems, flasks, double potting, stormlashes, crit banners, elementals, etc. Depending on your healer comp, they can probably do a good chunk of damage that easily can make up the 5% you need. Shaman can drop two of each elemental, Disc priests can smite, Druids can pick up heart of the wild and spam wrath during hero, etc.
If you're doing all that, more gear is what you need.
Edited by Dayuv on 1/22/2013 6:54 AM PST
My group finally killed Garalon after 24 total wipes. We tried a few different things to get him down. We did find that the Pheramone swapping could get a big buggy. We had times where the pheramones swapped when we were still a good distance away from each other and other times it wouldn't swap even though they were running through each other over and over to get it to change.
This fight is a DPS race so anytime a high damage melee needs to take pheramones, you're hurting yourself. We did it with 4 kiters each swapping at 20. It leaves a 2 minute debuff so 20 stacks each is enough to let the debuff wear off. We used our 2 tanks, a hunter and a healer. Yes, it can get tight with 2 tanks taking pheramones, but the damage being taken by an actual tank isn't that bad. At the start, everyone burned the legs down. We used lust at the beginning too. We had 2 melee focus legs and the rest focus on the body. The melee gets a damage buff to the legs if they are in the blue circle, so if they are doing the DPS they should be, 2 melee can burn the legs. We called out in vent if we needed a little help from the ranged on legs.
The difficulty with tanks taking pheramones is that they must stay close to each other, but not so close that they swap pheramones. The tank w/o pheramones should be as close to the purple circle as he/she feels comfortable while the other tank stays as far back as possible while still getting hit. If this is an issue, try having a rogue take the cleave using feint so the tank can be far enough away.
The issue you may have with a healer taking pheramones is that the dps on the back legs might be too far away for the healer to reach them. Perhaps have the healer with pheramones focus healing on the tanks and the other healers focus raid.
As for someone's idea about letting someone take pheramones and die with it, terrible idea. If there is a cap to the pheramone level, it's extremely high and your raid will not be able to withstand the aoe damage going out. Pheramone stacks increase the AoE damage Garalon is doing, which is why you must swap, but avoid swapping too frequently since he does his slam everytime you swap.
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