Make LFR and Normal/Heroic Share same lockout

88 Gnome Warlock
1325
11/01/2012 08:57 PMPosted by Noctemtenchi
Explain how a system that is designed for those who dont have time or access to normal and heroic raids, would be destroyed if those who do participate in normal and heroic modes dont run content that isnt designed for them?


They'd never clear it without us carrying them.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
14300
I agree with Z on most everything he said, what it seems like to me is the OP is angry that someone used logic to try and make them think instead of out right agreeing and is now acting as if they are a victim of some horrific attack.

Players like that really disgust me, I'm sorry if that sounds hurtful but it is the truth. They normally fall in the category of wanting everything there way and any logic provided to go against their blatant demands are met with the song and dance of "You attacked me you troll!"

The facts are simple to understand: Gear comes from many different places, it is YOUR choice as a player to put in the effort to get this gear. It is the very same rules "raiders" have tried to enforce on the casual player by telling them if they want the best gear they must step into a raid (Even if they hate it) to earn that gear.

Well, now you must endure dailies, and other forms of "Challenges" no matter how dull or boring you may find them for your upgrades. If you do not like it, simply do not do it. Gimp your raid? I highly doubt that, unless you are trying for world first it's not make or break the run.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9155
11/01/2012 03:17 PMPosted by Buttercookie
next time buttercookie show your tru colors and post on your raider hiding you progression on a 85 toon i mean common!


I don't think me posting on my main would make any difference.

I stated an opinion : I do not like LFR, I do not like feeling forced into it.

No matter what face I post from my opinion on this does not change.

On a side note it seems everyone in here complaining about "my opinion" does not even raid past LFR so whats the problem? I'm not trying to take anyone's precious LFR away from them.

Maybe blizzards best option would be to take away loot completely from LFR. There now raiders do not feel a need to do it, and non raiders get to see the content they wanted so to see. The biggest problem with LFR hasn't even hit yet, its once the tier gear is available from it.


Its like no matter what anyone says, you feel the need to dispute it. LFR is made for the casuals, and for people to have another chance at getting a (slightly lower ilevel) slot item they missed for some reason in normal/heroic raids, or to help people fill gear slots to eek out every possible edge for their normal raiding.

You've said that your guild is not requiring you to do it, but that you value those extra numbers to give you that edge. That's totally valid. But that's not forcing you to do LFR runs. If you were forced to choose between normal, heroic, and LFR lockout each week, you'd never be able to get those little extra bonus numbers between dungeon gear and LFR. You'd have to give them up and hope your gear dropped in normal or heroic, whichever you decided to do that week.

You're in an established guild that is doing regular guild raids. All LFR is for you is another chance to upgrade some weaker gear. Take it, or don't take it. Forcing shared lockouts will actually decrease your chances of gear upgrades over the long run, since you can't get into an LFR with the hopes of winning a slightly weaker than you want (but still stronger than what you have) upgrade.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
7665
11/01/2012 09:11 PMPosted by Kyoku
I agree with Z on most everything he said, what it seems like to me is the OP is angry that someone used logic to try and make them think instead of out right agreeing and is now acting as if they are a victim of some horrific attack.

Well, if someone has an agenda... They're going to push it.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
0
Ok, just going to throw this out there:

The reason why I believe LFR gives more valor than normal raiding is because in LFR there is no guarantee that anyone in the entire raid will get loot, this is due to the way its set up that you have a personal roll that determines if you get loot. (Sure probably not going to happen, someone will get at least one peice.)
In a normal raid depending on how your guild runs it, gear drops guaranteed off all the bosses. Someone will get the loot or it will get d/e'ed and still help the guild. In LFR the gear might not drop at all for anyone due to bad RNG.
The extra 30 VP that LFR gets assists them in getting upgrades from the reputation vendors, thus making them able to feel as they are contributing to their raid style.
VP can be capped easily each week and I am more casual than most. Lets break it down. So 1000 VP is the weekly cap. Running 1 heroic and 1 scenario each day gives 120 VP. Do that daily and that puts you at 840 VP, which in a day will take max 45 minutes to do both daily. So where do you get the other 160 you say? Well up to you but LFR does not in any way shape or form need to be run. 4 more heroics will cap you thats less than an additional 1 per day.
Sure running LFR caps you faster but if you are normal raiding you get 150 from that plus if you are in HoF you will get VP from that now, thus capping your VP for the week without even stepping foot in LFR.
And if you still need rep to buy the gear from Rep vendors you will cap in 1 or 2 days worth of one factions dailies, again proving you don't need LFR to cap VP. The bosses in normal raids can be beaten by having a better understanding of the mechanics. Unless you are competing at the 5% of top guilds levels you do not need to step foot in LFR and any guild that requires you to do so has a "hardcore" mindset and is forcing you to do so because they are DREAMING of being #1 US guild even though they are delusional.
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90 Human Warrior
12965
Please LFR is the worst thing ever and I'm sick of feeling that I have to run it to get a gear edge for normal raiding.

Please make it share a lockout so raiders are not forced into the monstrosity that you have created.


First of all.... No. Lockouts do not need to be shared.

Secondly, Why do you even care? You don't even run LFR.
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MVP - Technical Support
90 Human Warrior
18580
I'm a raider (on my mage these days) with very little playtime. I actually appreciate having the LFR as an option for getting faster VP points than running 5-mans (assuming my LFR group is organized). Since I'm only killing about four normal-mode bosses per week at this point (I miss out on 2 of the 4 raid days per week my guild has available), I really like the fact that LFR lockouts aren't tied to normal/heroic modes. It seems to be working okay with my schedule to do LFR when I have time to fit it into my schedule more flexibly than additional normal/heroic days.

With all the daily quests and VP point grinding, all the raiders have to be doing things outside of our normal-mode & heroic-mode runs. If we couldn't run LFR for VP, then we'd still have to run 5-mans and daily quests for our VP long after we stopped getting any actual upgrades out of the 5-mans. Taking away normal/heroic raiders' ability to run LFR wouldn't fix anything, realistically.

my concern wasn't the VP of LFR vs dailies or 5 mans. it was it vs actual raiding. actual raids are just not giving enough. LFR is being used as a filler for that void.

Also to zarhyms comment that challenge modes give faster valor. only if you're comparing LFR pug to an ORGANIZED group. if you compare an ORGANIZED group in LFR to one in challenge mode, LFR is still the fastest valor rate. a full guild LFR clear is utterly faceroll. PUll all the trash, aoe it. pull the boss, aoe it or zerg it. ignore all fight mechanics. repeat on every boss. also, only need 1 tank and 1 healer for most fights.
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90 Draenei Mage
13470
I agree with Z on most everything he said, what it seems like to me is the OP is angry that someone used logic to try and make them think instead of out right agreeing and is now acting as if they are a victim of some horrific attack.

Players like that really disgust me, I'm sorry if that sounds hurtful but it is the truth. They normally fall in the category of wanting everything there way and any logic provided to go against their blatant demands are met with the song and dance of "You attacked me you troll!"

The facts are simple to understand: Gear comes from many different places, it is YOUR choice as a player to put in the effort to get this gear. It is the very same rules "raiders" have tried to enforce on the casual player by telling them if they want the best gear they must step into a raid (Even if they hate it) to earn that gear.

Well, now you must endure dailies, and other forms of "Challenges" no matter how dull or boring you may find them for your upgrades. If you do not like it, simply do not do it. Gimp your raid? I highly doubt that, unless you are trying for world first it's not make or break the run.


Its a very common thing, not only in WoW or even in gaming, but in life. So many people seem, to be frank and blunt, so entitled that they literally and truthfully adopt an attitude of "agree with me or you're trashing me". 90% of our society today spends its time trying not to offend kids and even adults that when they are faced with some form of pushback, even if it be intelligent and logical, is met with cries of harassment and such. But I guess I'm getting off topic.

The point is, there are tons of avenues in this game for getting gear. They are not all "required" by any stretch. If LFR didn't exist, then the "super-elite" would still be doing EVERYTHING to get their gear as high as possible. That's what makes them so. To everyone else, yes, there is the temptation to run LFR every week without fail because of the fact that it does provide a chance at getting gear, and we all want more gear to become stronger.

But at the end of the day it is the responsibility of each individual player to evaluate the potential gains of doing an action like LFR (more gear) against the potential cons. The fact is, it is possible to raid without significant LFR gear. So every time you step into LFR in order to acquire gear, you are making a conscious choice to do so, and could just as easily choose not to. And while choosing to not run may not be 100% optimal in terms of character progression, I don't believe that you are so significantly hampered as to be worthy of negatively affecting a much larger section of the community.
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90 Worgen Mage
20350
Hi Zarhym! Since we're on the topic of lockouts, could you comment on the 10-25 unshared lockout in 5.1 in Asia? Is this something that's being considered for US/EU at a later date, or likely to remain Asia only?
Edited by Digerati on 11/1/2012 10:36 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
16820
I side with Zarhym. But, however, I notice the thread is derailed about the valor versus the other feature, like raiding or such.

Actual raiding (Normal mode) can be started at 460-463 iLvl overall, and anything said otherwise is just a flawed attempt on imposing their will on you. You are not obligated to run Looking For Raid, and it is not mandatory for Regular progression. It will reward you sometimes if you put the time and effort on it, just like when you collect the Valor Points from Heroic dungeons/Scenario/dailies, but it is strictly not required.

If the guild you are into are trying to push this argument to keep you away, I'd suggest you change guild. It is not a feature-related issue, but a player-related issue. Some people just think it is a requirement, while it's not.
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84 Blood Elf Rogue
12180
LFR sharing a lockout with everything else would be the stupidest thing in the history of stupid things. Believe it or not: Some of us like doing it just to have something to do when we're bored, even if we raid normals/heroics. Stop being an ignorant twit, and if you're in a guild that's seriously trying to tell you if you dont do LFR you're gimping them and will get a boot then get a new guild.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8250
11/01/2012 10:32 PMPosted by Relena
So many people seem, to be frank and blunt, so entitled that they literally and truthfully adopt an attitude of "agree with me or you're trashing me".

That was the majority of "casual vs hardcore" arguments with each person drawing the line of who is hard core and who is casual on the bases of who agrees with them or doesnt and if you dont agree with them then you get slandered and told your opinion doesnt matter while taking the "winning" side. Of course with how varying the meaning of casual can be, it was really casuals fighting with casuals to see who is more "casual" all because they enjoyed different aspects of the game.

It doesnt help however that some of the CMs at times have supported those with an entitlement attitude(unintentional or not) that makes players think that it is okay to behave like that and that "their" 15 bucks is worth more than another players 15 bucks.
Edited by Noctemtenchi on 11/2/2012 12:17 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
7955
You've got to be kidding me.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12350
Please LFR is the worst thing ever and I'm sick of feeling that I have to run it to get a gear edge for normal raiding.

Please make it share a lockout so raiders are not forced into the monstrosity that you have created.


lol so you need lfr gear to progress in normal?????????? LOL

tell that to the guilds that cleared heroic modes in 463 blues
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90 Pandaren Warrior
8540
Sounds like to me OP wants to win the meters not win the encounters. If he feels required it's probably by his self to be #1 in his/her guild. And some people should consider that sometimes Raiders run LFR to help people that don't understand the game as well get gear, since it was so rudely pointed that any non-raider group couldn't completer LFR with out normal/heroic mode raiders. I pull 65-70k with no normal gear and we beat most encounters with a little effort.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14495
Yeah, I know, some guilds want you to do the raid finder to see the fights and maybe get some gear but, forget about this lockout idea, they won't listen, the LFR killed the most epic experience of WoW, and yet, they never gonna change it, u know why? Because lazy ppl like it and the world is full of lazy ppl...Kill the last boss of the expansion without know the fight with 25 strange ppl that even talk with each other must be really fun.
Edited by Ikkaros on 11/2/2012 1:06 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
4080
11/01/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Buttercookie
Don't ruin it for others by placing restrictions on something that is supposed to be accessible to all.


LFR is accessible to everyone. That is the point of it, for those that can't raid.

As everyone has pointed out in just about every post in this thread there is no need to run LFR if you're doing normal modes so all you normal mode raiders should not care, right?


So why exactly do you want it share a lock out, when after someone completes an entire LFR run they can't receive weap or armor drop anymore if they run it again.... I don't get it because back in Cata you could keep having chance to get loot in DS LFR, now you cant after you loot a boss, hence with reason blizz came up with the ``Cache of Mogu Riches`` crap, just so they could tag a player for the week an say they looted the boss.. Back in Cata if you didn't get a loot drop you didn't get tag saying you looted and got a drop off the boss as yet..

What i would love for them to do is increase the chance persons have to get armor etc (seeing each roll is personal) because it can make a person get disinterested when they keep seeing ``Cache of Mogu Riches`` week in week out, then it hits that LFR is a worse grind than Normal/Heroics...
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