Make LFR and Normal/Heroic Share same lockout

90 Blood Elf Priest
0
skill > gear.

but for those who cannot improve their skill... there's always gear i suppose.
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90 Orc Warlock
16540
If you hate it so much then why is the only thing you run?
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90 Worgen Warlock
11560
While we are at it, Sha, Galleon, and all Heroics should share a lockout as well.. that way you only have to do one thing a week to gear up.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17085
11/01/2012 10:04 AMPosted by Chí
dont ruin lfr for all of us lol


Blizzard already did that. Find 9 friends, group up and do the real encounters. LFR is awful.
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Community Manager
11/01/2012 10:06 AMPosted by Buttercookie
you don't have to do LFR so don't!


You are gimping your raid group by not running it. I'm sick of feeling that I have to suffer through the mess that is LFR each and every week.

Blizzard made 10 and 25s share a lockout because 25 man guilds were "forced" into running the lower skilled 10s for extra gear each week. This new system is no different but 100x worse due to the nature of LFR.

Actually, the new system is quite a bit different than the 10- and 25-player lockout situation. A much greater percentage of the population will experience each new raid using Raid Finder, compared to normal and (especially) Heroic difficulties. The loot system is vastly different in Raid Finder to account for matchmade players, the dungeons are often split up differently for LFR (i.e. Dragon Soul in two parts), and the quality of loot that drops is lower. Given all of this, the cons largely outweigh the pros in your suggestion to make all difficulties of a raid dungeon share lockouts.

But let's discuss the issue you raise: "I run raid content in an organized group. I don't want to do LFR on top of my normal raiding, but I feel like I have to if I want to gear up as fast as possible."

The statement might be true for some, but I have a lot of follow-ups.

    - Are you in a guild that has success with Heroic raid progression? This one's pretty important, as any guild that's good enough to be farming, or at least killing several bosses in, Heroic Mogu'shan Vaults and Heart of Fear by the time Terrace of Endless Spring opens via LFR, will not likely need a single piece of gear from LFR. Terrace of Endless Spring LFR items won't be as good as your Heroic raid gear.

    - Is your guild demanding that you run LFR every week for the chance at some upgrades you haven't made via normal difficulty yet? In your post you say we're forcing you into LFR, but that's not true. I won't argue semantics, but if you're min/maxing your character for every competitive edge possible, that's a playstyle choice.

    - How badly are you really hurting your raid by not running LFR? Is your progression in normal difficulty such that upgrading from a piece of ilvl 463 gear to 476 gear is "make or break" for the entire raid? With stat inflation, the difference between these item levels is almost negligible, unless you're comparing full sets. But in the amount of time it might take you to get several upgrades via LFR, you should be getting several upgrades via normal difficulty -- and you get a head start on normal difficulty with Raid Finder always releasing at least a week later.

Certainly there's a psychology to hunting down every advantage you can, and the endgame is largely about that. But there are a lot of nuances in the raid progression system to ensure that:

    A) Raid Finder has a healthy pool of players from which to choose
    B) Organized raiders who regularly tackle Heroic difficulty will have virtually no need to run Raid Finder much at all this expansion (since a new tier's LFR ilvl won't outdo the previous tier's Heroic ilvl)
    C) Organized raiders who make progress each week on normal difficulty shouldn't hit any pass/fail gear checks and lose because they're not running LFR every week.
    D) You're not forced by the game (AT ALL) to keep running LFR each week for gear if you want to be successful in the higher difficulties.

I asked a lot of questions because you're demanding a very dramatic change to the game, but you've shared almost no details regarding why this change is completely necessary for everyone, and you're posting on an account that gives me absolutely no insight into your level-90 progression.
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90 Troll Priest
7430
How does the koreans have seperate 10 & 25m lockouts but we are forced to have our lockouts together. They were also tested with double resets in FL, anyone would like to explain Blizzards reasoning in giving Koreans everything the US players want?
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Community Manager
11/01/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Buttercookie
Don't ruin it for others by placing restrictions on something that is supposed to be accessible to all.


LFR is accessible to everyone. That is the point of it, for those that can't raid.

As everyone has pointed out in just about every post in this thread there is no need to run LFR if you're doing normal modes so all you normal mode raiders should not care, right?

I'm especially unsure what point you're trying to make here, as it seems like you're invalidating your own argument.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
4840
11/01/2012 11:11 AMPosted by Zarhym


LFR is accessible to everyone. That is the point of it, for those that can't raid.

As everyone has pointed out in just about every post in this thread there is no need to run LFR if you're doing normal modes so all you normal mode raiders should not care, right?

I'm especially unsure what point you're trying to make here, as it seems like you're invalidating your own argument.


That's hilarious
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
6820
Anyone else find it funny that the OP got pwned by Zarhym?
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90 Troll Priest
7430
How does the koreans have seperate 10 & 25m lockouts but we are forced to have our lockouts together. They were also tested with double resets in FL, anyone would like to explain Blizzards reasoning in giving Koreans everything the US players want?
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90 Draenei Shaman
14505
Have you ever done a weekend LFR? If Blizzard didn't 'force' normal mode raiders into most of the groups would never finish.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
11645

I'm especially unsure what point you're trying to make here, as it seems like you're invalidating your own argument.


That's hilarious
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90 Draenei Hunter
8930
10/10 Z
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How does the koreans have seperate 10 & 25m lockouts but we are forced to have our lockouts together. They were also tested with double resets in FL, anyone would like to explain Blizzards reasoning in giving Koreans everything the US players want?


I dont know that "everyone" wants that. I know don't want separate lockouts. No thank you.

Back on topic. I think the existing systems works great. Our team ran LFR last night, a couple of people got pieces, and valor and overall it took 2 hours to run both halves. I suspect that soon we'll drop MV to run HoF LFR. Good way to get valor and gear at the amount of time spent.

It's also a choice I'm glad to have.
Edited by Kiriel on 11/1/2012 11:16 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
APM
9650
I would love to see a 2 lock out system.

for example both 10/25's or 10 and lfr or 25 and LFR.

The chages made to korean servers needs to come to us servers
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90 Human Warlock
14755
How does the koreans have seperate 10 & 25m lockouts but we are forced to have our lockouts together. They were also tested with double resets in FL, anyone would like to explain Blizzards reasoning in giving Koreans everything the US players want?


Cultural differences in playing; also the subscription systems are different overseas than they are in the US.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
6820
I would love to have 10 and 25man raiding again with separate lockouts.
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90 Goblin Shaman
8435
11/01/2012 10:06 AMPosted by Buttercookie
You are gimping your raid group by not running it. I'm sick of feeling that I have to suffer through the mess that is LFR each and every week.


So, I'm scared to know what your main's gear is like if you didn't bother gemming and enchanting your pally at 85. If your main's in some blues still and you haven't bothered with gems/chants, maybe you should try that before crying about being "forced" to do LFR.
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