Make LFR and Normal/Heroic Share same lockout

90 Tauren Death Knight
4840
I feel the issue is that people talk at the higher up community members instead of to them. If you are going to say something always be prepared to hold a dialog with facts backing your side of it. An IMO declaration doesn't really go over that well when you opinion doesn't have a solid factual foundation. I would have stopped and said you know what alright I understand what you are getting at because the people in charge here know what they are talking about and that comes from experience and fact checking of every word.

And the reason we don't use the word blues in the title e.c.t. I feel has something to do with the difference between talking at and to/with someone.
Edited by Mælstromedos on 11/1/2012 12:49 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
7575
I raid LFR for fun (I have more Elegon kills than we have had lootable weeks in LFR. I think I've been moderately lucky with LFR drops. My progression isn't great, only 6/6, but I've been guild hopping a lot trying to find a place to fit in.

In DS, I would've agreed with the OP. LFR had too much potential for griefing (morchok adds wiping the group for hours at a time, pulling Yor'sahj while the adds are still up) and the simple fact of seeing someone else grab loot you could have won as well, including the ability to trade, made it INCREDIBLY unfun. I had to raid it for gear, and I hated it.

Now? I do it because it's easy, I can get some easy big numbers by exploiting the differences between normal and LFR (keeping the Gara'jal buff up continuously ^_^), and feel good about helping some people get past brick walls they would have never got through otherwise (killing Elegon AFTER he enrages o_o).

It's more like a dungeon to me at the moment than a raid, and that's fine. It's meant to be simple enough for an uncoordinated group to pull off and it works well.

I see no reason for people to complain about em. It's maybe 2 hours a week of your semi-afk time for a chance at free loot and the opportunity to tick a checkbox in your 'am hardcore' list. If you can't be bothered, you probably don't care about progression as much as you think you do.
Edited by Gulder on 11/1/2012 12:52 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Death Knight
11095
Please LFR is the worst thing ever and I'm sick of feeling that I have to run it to get a gear edge for normal raiding.

Please make it share a lockout so raiders are not forced into the monstrosity that you have created.


Congrats, you're the worst, and stupidest, troll I've ever seen....
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While I agree with Zarhym, at the same time I do not.

It is unfortunately the mindset of the player base is to min/max whether they are hardcore or casual. It is the same reason some specs are deemed "not viable" even though they may only do 2% less damage overall than "viable" spec. I think it is the side effect of prolonged exposure to the old talent tree system as well as the wealth of knowledge that is provided to us through theorycrafters and tools such as askmrrobot.com

While in a perfect world Zarhym would be 100% right, the fact of the matter is the WoW culture has been permeated by a hardcore mentality over the course of the last 8 years. We all feel the pressure to be doing everything possible to get even +1 to a particular stat from our peers. We are treated by the community as we are not doing our part to be successful if we do not participate in LFR, even in the most casual of raiding guilds. Let me reiterate I agree with Zarhym that the reality is mechanics and knowledge are far more important than gear, however the only tangible means to measure that is through gear.

So here is the important question...

How do we change the majority culture in WoW to reflect the realities of raiding of the many instead of mirroring the culture of the hardcore minority?


It's not actually a WoW thing, it's a couple psychological aspects that the outside world brings to it. Evidenced by the hand holding that many games, movies, schools/parents, etc. do these days. Our typical habit of being "sheep" when it comes to actually thinking for ourselves, is what makes these things happen. This is evidenced in this game by the QQ about daily quests and this topic, where people feel as though they HAVE to do something optional (just like the choice to do all daily quests, the source of the formers complaints).

Upsetting this established psychology is met by complaints and demands. As we can all see from this forum alone.


Very true on all accounts, however those of us who are not sheep are still affected by the wayward herd, often being trampled by it. Therefore I argue that the question still stands =)
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90 Draenei Paladin
8255
"Insert typical PUG group situation here" <-- So this is why LFR should share a lockout with 10/25 raids?

So Blizzard is responsible for these situations? Penalize everyone because a handful of selected people can't act mannered in a group of strangers? Make sense


/nod This is why we can't have nice things. Oh wait, we do get nice things! People just have something negative happen (based on perspective), and feel like it's a total failure. That's called being oblivious and selfish.
Edited by Eviloven on 11/1/2012 12:53 PM PDT
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90 Orc Hunter
11520
Please LFR is the worst thing ever and I'm sick of feeling that I have to run it to get a gear edge for normal raiding.

Please make it share a lockout so raiders are not forced into the monstrosity that you have created.


Just... I... Don't... Even...
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90 Tauren Druid
3310
LFR is accessible to everyone. That is the point of it, for those that can't raid.

As everyone has pointed out in just about every post in this thread there is no need to run LFR if you're doing normal modes so all you normal mode raiders should not care, right?


Except there are raid/guild leaders which require their normal mode raiders to run LFR(and dailies, I might add) to get all the BiS pre-raid gear *before* they begin running with a normal mode raid group. There's no way around it though, Blizzard is not going to change this because people dislike running LFR. The overwhelming majority of Blizzard's customer base *loves* LFR.
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100 Worgen Hunter
13240
LFR is accessible to everyone. That is the point of it, for those that can't raid.

As everyone has pointed out in just about every post in this thread there is no need to run LFR if you're doing normal modes so all you normal mode raiders should not care, right?


Except there are raid/guild leaders which require their normal mode raiders to run LFR(and dailies, I might add) to get all the BiS pre-raid gear *before* they begin running with a normal mode raid group. There's no way around it though, Blizzard is not going to change this because people dislike running LFR. The overwhelming majority of Blizzard's customer base *loves* LFR.


First, if you're in a guild that REQUIRES it, there's a good chance you play so much that LFR is a very small portion of your weekly play schedule. Second, just lie and say nothing dropped.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8255


Very true on all accounts, however those of us who are not sheep are still affected by the wayward herd, often being trampled by it. Therefore I argue that the question still stands =)


Totally lol. It really seems like the devs tried in a arguably subtle way, but it was met with many complaints. Until they remove our current freedom of choice to do things, people won't realize exactly what they have lost because of their complaints. Unfortunately, doing this will simply cause Blizz to lose subscriptions and money, more than anything.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
16560
11/01/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Peverell
First, if you're in a guild that REQUIRES it, there's a good chance you play so much that LFR is a very small portion of your weekly play schedule. Second, just lie and say nothing dropped.


First: Bingo

Second: Guilds that do this keep track of kills on those difficulty levels as well as individual player rep to make sure you're doing your dailies until maxed out.
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100 Human Monk
15480
Second: Guilds that do this keep track of kills on those difficulty levels as well as individual player rep to make sure you're doing your dailies until maxed out.


if your guild manage to force you to do anything against your will, it's time to do some serious thinking and set your priorities right.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
7575
11/01/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Dorrell
First, if you're in a guild that REQUIRES it, there's a good chance you play so much that LFR is a very small portion of your weekly play schedule. Second, just lie and say nothing dropped.


First: Bingo

Second: Guilds that do this keep track of kills on those difficulty levels as well as individual player rep to make sure you're doing your dailies until maxed out.


Erm, wow.

I would hate to be in a guild like that, even if they did get the job done.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17255
@ Zar --

I don't see much discussion here. I just see two sides telling the other that it's wrong.

1) Would you care to comment on the numerous posts of people who actually raid, who point out LFR reinforces bad habits? People that point out LFR has simply taken place of the split ilvl system that existed in Wrath and forced raiding guilds to run the same content multiple times a week.

2) Would you care to comment on LFR being setup as an intro raid for people who don't want to raid?

3) Would you care to comment on the time commitment for those "casuals" who don't have the time to put together a normal raid, yet don't see the irony of spending upwards of an hour and a half to down a single boss? (I am in hardcore raid content, and I don't have that kind of time commitment LFR takes).

4) Would you care to comment on the lack of non-LFR alternatives for casuals -- especially in light of having a tool like Scenarios at your disposal which seems to be a much better fit for people who don't have a lot of time and don't want to raid or organize a group? (Itemize these things and give a decent reward. They're only getting panned right now because they are by and large a waste of time).

5) Would you care to comment on the massive amount of players that leave LFR after one boss kill that contributes to added time in LFR for everyone else?

6) Would you care to comment on mechanics where 1 person can grief an entire LFR?

These are all open for debate. And despite your many responses in this thread, I have yet to see you address, discuss, or otherwise pontificate on any of these issues.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
16560


First: Bingo

Second: Guilds that do this keep track of kills on those difficulty levels as well as individual player rep to make sure you're doing your dailies until maxed out.


Erm, wow.

I would hate to be in a guild like that, even if they did get the job done.


Once upon a time, I was the Co-GM in a guild that kept track of people's achievement points (beginning of Wrath), because the officers felt it was a good reflection of how active a guild member was.

Players who dropped below a certain activity level or could not reach X achievement score were replaced on the raiding roster.

We also kept track of reputation counters and that same guild used the Gear Score add on heavily at the end of Wrath.

They were always in the top 3 guilds on that server. (Different server than the one I'm on now. I play more casually anymore.)

So when some people say "forced", they are being forced. By their guild officers to keep their raiding spots. I'd assume a lot of top guilds do this to maintain server rank and that edge over the other ones.
Edited by Dorrell on 11/1/2012 1:10 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
15840
This is a joke topic. The OP is mocking those people who made threads complaining about dailies (optional content) being "forced"

I can't believe that went over everyone's heads. Even Zarhym

Edit: Actually yeah....I can believe it.
Edited by Viral on 11/1/2012 1:12 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Warrior
7680
So you want to take away the option for everyone to do LFR and normal because you don't want to do LFR anymore?

Who do you think you are?

Don't do it.

No one is forcing you to do LFR.

No one is forcing you to do dailies.

I'm sick of everyone complaining about optional things to do in a game. You can get geared enough to start raiding normals by simply running heroics and doing scenarios. I've gotten this character to 464 ilvl 4 days after I got to level 90. I don't have a single faction to revered yet, I've only done one lockout worth of LFR(and used my coins) and didn't get anything for my main spec. Yet I am at the ilvl suggested for the start of normal raids.
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100 Goblin Shaman
8790
11/01/2012 12:07 PMPosted by Zarhym
I'll leave it here, then, since I've derailed your simple demand thread by... talking to you logically about it. (?)


Logic does not compute?
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