BM is garbage for pvp.

I'm referring to high level pvp, not pug BGs or 2s for points. In a high level of pvp BM will never be the optimal spec. It is fundamentally flawed, in a way that can't be fixed. Primarily being that it relys on an npc. We all know how imperfect and unreliable npcs are, they decide to walk when they should run, or sometimes they just stand there looking at you as you command them to attack the mage melting your face. Aside from the inevitable glitches, the design of pets in general is flawed. The big one being their incapability to jump off things, arenas like Dalaran and Blade's Edge supplies a BM's opponent with the easy win, simply jump off and the pet is forced to run the long way, and if you go up the opposite way, my pet spends the entire match chasing you thus making him useless. Sure Blink Strike will work around this, but that's every 20 seconds, my enemy can jump off of thing a helluva lot more than once every 20 seconds, and sometimes the pathing of BS even glitches out. Even if ALL that not true BM would still be the worst spec for pvp IMO. It is too easily defended, it's too simple. If someone can avoid or cc through a BM's cooldowns, something that will be even easier in 5.1, the hunter then is toast. Outside of cooldowns BM's damage is mediocre at best. It's fundamentally (and probably unfixably) flawed and very easily defended, because of this I don't think BM is the most optimal spec.

Now as the game is right now, of course, BM is the only one to play, the only one that has any measure of viability, so I am rolling BM. But every day I wish MM was still good, and hope that it will be in 5.1.
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90 Human Hunter
3425
what i find is most people cc the pet and attack you my spirit beast bear is retarded it randomly attacks targets after i get kb on one person in bg.
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90 Worgen Hunter
4045
The ledge thing should definitely be fixed.. jumping off a ledge and saving yourself is just plain stupid. Happens a lot and most annoying in Temple BG
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Did I ever claim to be high rated? I'm theorizing on the spec...
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90 Worgen Hunter
5455
You are mostly correct but the sad part is, we're virtually forced into BM if we want the damage to be able to keep up. SV is gimped in PvP thanks to RNG and dispels, and if you try MM, you will probably bleed from your eye sockets from all the frustration.
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100 Tauren Hunter
16565
If run with a proper healer and complimentary DPS/Control Spec it is insanely powerful for the moment. It is all about controlling the opponent's CD's and utilizing your burn at a time when it is ideal for you and your pet as well as your other damaging partner.

It is gimmicky and pet control is a nuisance, but these are issues tackled by experience with BM and with the class, but I can see where it would create some issues for those who rolled a hunter recently or are not actively thinking about these issues.
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90 Worgen Hunter
5455
11/07/2012 12:38 PMPosted by Cambra
Stop popping everything in the beginning?


Sorry but I have to agree with the OP. Put simply, relying on an NPC as heavily as BM does is very poor design. The spec might have some viability, doesn't mean it isn't garbage. Think about it.
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90 Orc Hunter
5625
Yes the spec is "flawed" being that you are reliant on your pet for pretty much everything (all damage, master's call, roar of sacrifice, spirit mend/lullaby, did i mention pretty much all of your damage?) but atm BM is still a very viable spec for top tier arena and does well vs pretty much everything but godcomp and shadow priests in general. Maybe they are strong because warriors are strong? im not sure but kfc is extremely strong especially with a shaman healer, it just comes down to good swaps, good cc's, and good positioning.

Oh and I too am waiting for MM to become the viable pvp spec once again sadly with the current buffs/nerfs this will not be happening, BM just offers too much Utility it has everything that made MM better then BM and still retained all of its BM specific skills (ie Got: Silencing shot, Readiness, Roar of Sacrifice, Retained: Intim stun, Bestial Wrath)

Remember you can use Bestial wrath to break any CC in the game including Cyclone and its also refreshed by Readiness.
Edited by Swoozers on 11/7/2012 4:17 PM PST
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90 Draenei Hunter
14735
It'd help if they could figure out how to get our pets to jump off ledges when appropriate.
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90 Orc Hunter
5625
11/07/2012 04:20 PMPosted by Morcinna
It'd help if they could figure out how to get our pets to jump off ledges when appropriate.


Now this would be amazing, people just jump off a ledge to prevent damage your pet/stampede takes 20 years to run all the way down to hit them again.
Edited by Swoozers on 11/7/2012 4:26 PM PST
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87 Troll Hunter
6125
11/07/2012 04:20 PMPosted by Morcinna
It'd help if they could figure out how to get our pets to jump off ledges when appropriate.


This has everything to do with game code. Blizzard might look into it, but its a pretty massive undertaking from a code standpoint.
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90 Draenei Hunter
14735
Yeah, but it'd be totally worth it. NPCs all over the game like to bug out and run around things in ways that don't make sense. It'd prevent alot of exploitation. And with mages/locks/shammys all having pets (am I fogetting anyone?) , we're not the only ones with a direct benefit.
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90 Pandaren Priest
3185
I'm referring to high level pvp, not pug BGs or 2s for points. In a high level of pvp BM will never be the optimal spec. It is fundamentally flawed, in a way that can't be fixed. Primarily being that it relys on an npc. We all know how imperfect and unreliable npcs are, they decide to walk when they should run, or sometimes they just stand there looking at you as you command them to attack the mage melting your face. Aside from the inevitable glitches, the design of pets in general is flawed. The big one being their incapability to jump off things, arenas like Dalaran and Blade's Edge supplies a BM's opponent with the easy win, simply jump off and the pet is forced to run the long way, and if you go up the opposite way, my pet spends the entire match chasing you thus making him useless. Sure Blink Strike will work around this, but that's every 20 seconds, my enemy can jump off of thing a helluva lot more than once every 20 seconds, and sometimes the pathing of BS even glitches out. Even if ALL that not true BM would still be the worst spec for pvp IMO. It is too easily defended, it's too simple. If someone can avoid or cc through a BM's cooldowns, something that will be even easier in 5.1, the hunter then is toast. Outside of cooldowns BM's damage is mediocre at best. It's fundamentally (and probably unfixably) flawed and very easily defended, because of this I don't think BM is the most optimal spec.

Now as the game is right now, of course, BM is the only one to play, the only one that has any measure of viability, so I am rolling BM. But every day I wish MM was still good, and hope that it will be in 5.1.


QQ

Your name makes baby Jesus cry.
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90 Orc Hunter
14855
11/06/2012 02:24 PMPosted by Rämbo
I'm referring to high level pvp, not pug BGs or 2s for points.


11/07/2012 05:08 AMPosted by Rämbo
Did I ever claim to be high rated? I'm theorizing on the spec...


I also like to theorise how it would feel to be Bill Gates and stuff, good call, bro.
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90 Draenei Hunter
14735
While 1st hand knowlege is nice, you don't need it to make educated guesses. There's this thing we call thinking... if you do it logically enough you can figure stuff out without experimentation. :O
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90 Orc Hunter
14855
11/07/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Morcinna
While 1st hand knowlege is nice, you don't need it to make educated guesses. There's this thing we call thinking... if you do it logically enough you can figure stuff out without experimentation. :O


Never works on the forums because the starting point is usually cluelessness , which means all theory work continues down the same path.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8540
I would definitely agree, pathing is certainly an issue for our pet, but considering how many tools we have in our arsenal presently I wouldn't call it garbage.

Let's count our trinkets (If listed twice, it's because of readiness):
1. PvP Trinket
2. Bestial Wrath
3. Bestial Wrath
4. Master's Call
5. Master's Call
6. Disengage
7. Disengage

When we manage these skills appropriately in concert with Silencing, Intimidation, Scatter, Trap, Widow Venom -- We have the toolbox to overcome a lot.

The pet pathing thing becomes a major issue, absolutely, when trying to secure a kill and all they need to do to escape death is jump off.

My solution? Remove knock backs in Arenas (turn them into interrupts); And make ledges and all falls that would otherwise be avoidable -- Fall damage.

If you think about it, it is an Arena, and part of the design aspect is severely lacking. To create consequences for decisions in position like Line of sight, and even fall damage. These things need to exist too.
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