Garalon Changes - Raid Finder, Normal, Heroic

100 Gnome Mage
16100
Still not a very puggable fight in LFR....have yet to get into a group that downs him.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6220
11/10/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Twixaroo
Well from my LFR wipes on Galaron this A.M. AFTER the hotfix, it appears it is still too much for your average pug. Decent Pheromone kiting, swipe soaking, and only a handful of 'oops, purple circle" yet my group still only managed to get him to 16% on the best attempt.


I've just had the same experience. Mix the mechanics with the long wait because no one wants to join a 2/6 after a wipe, this becomes a toxic situation in LFR.
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90 Human Mage
11180
From Heroic Ragnaros nerfs:

11/30/2011 04:56 PMPosted by Zarhym
We could have increased the detection radius that triggered Geyser, but in general we try to avoid enacting changes that make an encounter more difficult once that fight has already been defeated. Doing so creates a frustrating experience for players who have to relearn something they believed they had mastered.


From your Vizier nerfs earlier this week:

11/07/2012 01:28 PMPosted by Nethaera
The Heroic Zor'lok encounter is currently more difficult than intended. While we prefer to avoid changes to encounters in the midst of progression, we would like to fix a few quality of life issues and make some targeted balance changes that do not invalidate the efforts that guilds have put into learning the encounter so far. Later today a hotfix will make the following adjustments:


From this quote, I emphasize that do not invalidate the efforts that guilds have put into learning the encounter so far.

Why do you break a mechanic (blade flurry, etc.) for this specific fight AND increase the difficulty after the boss had been defeated?
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90 Orc Warrior
13520
Zon'ozz says hi. Cleave off a target with increased damage taken has always been acceptable to you guys before, why change it now?
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100 Pandaren Rogue
13730
11/10/2012 10:13 AMPosted by Crithto
With regard to all raid difficulties, after further testing the encounter, we realized that certain abilities were having unintended effects. Blade Flurry, Inferno Blast and Sweeping Strikes were doing double damage to Garalon's body while attacking his legs, which was not intended. We are currently implementing a hotfix, which should take effect after realms are restarted, that will cause these abilities to do normal damage to the body while continuing to do double damage to the legs.

Wait, how wasn't this "intended"? Blade flurry and sweeping strikes copies the damage being done to a source, over to another source. We're attacking a target that happens to take 100% increased damage, so why wouldn't the cleave target take that as well? *boggle*
Edited by Doozy on 11/10/2012 1:25 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
17130
From Heroic Ragnaros nerfs:

We could have increased the detection radius that triggered Geyser, but in general we try to avoid enacting changes that make an encounter more difficult once that fight has already been defeated. Doing so creates a frustrating experience for players who have to relearn something they believed they had mastered.


From your Vizier nerfs earlier this week:

The Heroic Zor'lok encounter is currently more difficult than intended. While we prefer to avoid changes to encounters in the midst of progression, we would like to fix a few quality of life issues and make some targeted balance changes that do not invalidate the efforts that guilds have put into learning the encounter so far. Later today a hotfix will make the following adjustments:


From this quote, I emphasize that do not invalidate the efforts that guilds have put into learning the encounter so far.

Why do you break a mechanic (blade flurry, etc.) for this specific fight AND increase the difficulty after the boss had been defeated?


Thumbs up. Inconsistency has me baffled just as you are.
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100 Troll Rogue
21875
11/10/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Xiic
Zon'ozz says hi. Cleave off a target with increased damage taken has always been acceptable to you guys before, why change it now?

The real question is, is this a change to underlying bf mechanics or just a special case change to garalon.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
11/10/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Omegal
Crush on CD which was probably the #1 killer of pugs

I think a more appropriate fix for LFR would have just been to make purple ring MUCH smaller but still a no CD crush, and a nice big personal raid boss emote message yelling at you for being under the boss when you shouldn't be.


Just for reference there is such an emote. There's a big raid warning that says something like "Garalon senses [person not paying attention] beneath him and prepares to crush".
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90 Night Elf Druid
17075
11/10/2012 01:24 PMPosted by Doozy
With regard to all raid difficulties, after further testing the encounter, we realized that certain abilities were having unintended effects. Blade Flurry, Inferno Blast and Sweeping Strikes were doing double damage to Garalon's body while attacking his legs, which was not intended. We are currently implementing a hotfix, which should take effect after realms are restarted, that will cause these abilities to do normal damage to the body while continuing to do double damage to the legs.

Wait, how wasn't this "intended"? Blade flurry and sweeping strikes copies the damage being done to a source, over to another source. We're attacking a target that happens to take 100% increased damage, so why wouldn't the cleave target take that as well? *boggle*


I think its because of how the legs take the increased damage, not Garalon himself. Zon'ozz has the debuff that makes him take more damage, so you cleave off him. Halfus and Magmaw are the same way. In the case of Garalon, you're cleaving off his legs (which would be considered adds) and not off Garalon himself.

Thats my two cents on the situation.
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90 Pandaren Rogue
10130
11/10/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Fierydemise
Zon'ozz says hi. Cleave off a target with increased damage taken has always been acceptable to you guys before, why change it now?

The real question is, is this a change to underlying bf mechanics or just a special case change to garalon.


This. I would hope it's not the case... but who knows these days.
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90 Pandaren Rogue
10130
Also as much as I hate to say it, I believe the underlying problem is this.

Garalon's legs account for roughly 3% of his HP, killing a leg reduces his HP by 3%. With the cleave, we are essentially doing double damage to the same target. Not to two targets. Garalon's leg is in effect Garalon himself. So it's not that two different targets are taking lots of damage, it's that the same target is taking double damage from a cleave. Which I suppose isn't the purpose of the cleave.
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100 Worgen Hunter
14400
Thank you blizzard :)
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
With regard to all raid difficulties, after further testing the encounter, we realized that certain abilities were having unintended effects. Blade Flurry, Inferno Blast and Sweeping Strikes were doing double damage to Garalon's body while attacking his legs, which was not intended.


What?

Silly pup, Inferno Blast is a SINGLE TARGET spell!

... Unless you mean the DoTs that were spreading to the body...
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100 Blood Elf Monk
13105
11/10/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Xiic
Zon'ozz says hi. Cleave off a target with increased damage taken has always been acceptable to you guys before, why change it now?
It's most likely something they decide on a case-by-case basis. On Zon'ozz that was a nice side-effect but didn't have a massive effect on the encounter. On Garalon the DPS difference between a cleave-heavy comp and a more normal raid is pretty big.
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100 Troll Rogue
21875
11/10/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Suzushiirou
It's most likely something they decide on a case-by-case basis. On Zon'ozz that was a nice side-effect but didn't have a massive effect on the encounter. On Garalon the DPS difference between a cleave-heavy comp and a more normal raid is pretty big.

Actually it looks like a universal change. Just tested on a frost mage and his pet using prey on the weak to create a damage buff on the primary target.

SS without stun: 3053
SS with stun 3356
BF without stun 1336
BF with stun 1336

It looks like damage mirrors now work pre damage buffs.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7400
woah woah woah. You're hitting us with that buff when guilds have already killed it on Heroic mode? Now you're going to make the enrage timer more difficult to meet for other guilds mid-progression? That doesn't seem right.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6740
welp. RIP Blade Flurry (2005-2012)

at least now they have no excuse not to make combat rogues do non-garbage single target damage.
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