-Feedback- Hunter Bugs and Marksmanship Spec

90 Human Hunter
10445
Support MM needs major buffs

Should request sticky because something really needs to be done and hunters have always been a huge issue. Hvnt been fun since WOTLK Marks and when we had mana.
Edited by Poúnced on 11/10/2012 10:02 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14590
Hunter glyphs have an issue with them. I find it's okay to have a variety of options for them, but having too many can be an issue.

Glyphs that most people use in arena:
- Marked for Death
- Explosive Trap
- Mirrored Blades
- Disengage
- Scattering
- Camouflage (rare)
- Master's Call (rare)

Now for example, you are playing a game against Warrior, Mage, R Druid as MM on Dalaran Sewers (next patch). You will probably want explosive trap for the knock-back, Marked for Death for damage, possibly scattering depending on comp, and maybe even use Mirrored blades to reflect clones/polys.

Next patch there is the aimed glyph which could possibly be mandatory. If they added entrapment to be a glyph, then that's one more. It's almost too much of a good thing, but you can not have them all.

A lot of glyphs could be changed into passives. Some examples, Aimed Shot on the move, MC becomes 8 seconds, Marked for Death becomes passive, Chimera Shot goes back to 5% with the glyph removed, revive pet (minor glyph), ice trap radius, mend pet % healing increased, path finding is now acts like on a pale horse/ crusader aura (stacks with other mount speeds).

When you look at hunter glyphs as a whole there are many old and strange ones. The ones you question and go, why does this even exist. Them being:
- Snake trap gains 90% aoe dmg reduction
- 3 yards on scatter shot

Others which are just could be improved or removed:
- No Escape
- Freezing Trap

Some glyphs like Black Ice are a cool idea, but it is out shined by others. When you look at the glyph system as a whole for hunters, there are the good, the ones that are cool, and the bad ones. Adding more glyphs that should just be passive only adds to the issue (like the new AiS on the move and if entrapment was a glyph). Sure every class has bad glyphs, but really, 90% aoe dmg reduction for snake trap. Snakes going to global people. Watch Out!
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I support this thread, it's not even fun to play BM in PVP but the only reason people are doing it is because it's just so much better then MM.

Really hope blizzard sees this and makes changes.
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90 Human Hunter
5605
Some of these changes seem pretty decent.

Here's another thing to consider: In 1v1's, say duels or if an arena match comes to a 1v1 situation, piercing shots makes 3 of our most important abilities as marks cause our crits to give the enemy a bleed debuff. Without glyph of scattering, this issue alone can severely damage a hunter's soloing capability... With things like glyph of explosive trap, disengage (on dalaran), mirrored blades (in rare occasions), master's call etc, this becomes a problem as those are often far more crucial given the current state of marks hunters.

I'd suggest, at the very LEAST, looking at combining glyph of scattering with glyph of scatter shot. This would make the glyph a bit more appealing although it still would not be used very often at all. The point is, the fact that piercing shots is forced upon a hunter who chooses marks spec can be severely crippling.

Edit: Suggestion - make scatter shot remove bleeds? I'm open to other suggestions, would be nice seeing other hunters' input.

What I'd really love to see the most though is bringing the original pet intervene back to tenacity pets. This was when a pet's intervene worked just like that of a warrior's. I thought it substantially increased the hunter skill cap as far as a single ability goes, and it really made hunter soloing in PvP so much more satisfying.

The way I see it, bringing the original pet intervene back would barely buff hunters at all. It can be extremely difficult to time and it's almost impractical to use a pet specifically for intervene in any arena match.

You guys removed it after raiders realized it could help with certain boss mechanics. Is it possible to make pet intervene do one thing (like your 30% dot damage reduction) in PvE? In other words, if the intervened target took a physical attack from a monster as opposed to a player, it would proc a 30% DoT damage reduction buff. However, if the intervened target took a physical attack from an actual player, that attack would transfer to the pet.

I'm just trying to think of how this would work in terms of coding it.

It's a shame that this ability had to be changed in Cata and ultimately removed.
Edited by Woodpeckerx on 11/10/2012 12:25 PM PST
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90 Orc Hunter
5035
Yeah I've never really liked Piercing Shots tbh, I never liked as a rogue having my Gouge/Blind break from dots (eventually they added talents/glyphs to remedy this but it went on like that for so long). Honestly I'd rather just have higher raw crit burst than annoying dots :P But I doubt they'll change this.

Maybe instead they could simply make Scatter/Trap ignore Piercing Shots specifically, sorta like the rogues gouge ignores their bleeds (assuming it still does? it used to be a talent in sub).
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96 Human Hunter
10130
Need to put in there;

Aimed shot is a 3 second cast -- if you allow an ability to hit like this you should be punished

Wish I could find the quote about the Chaos Bolt from warlocks forums, but yeah.

If they get a 3 second cast that hits for 100-250k, why cant we.
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90 Orc Hunter
6730
I hope MM comes back. I dont care how its done. But I hope it becomes viable again.
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93 Human Hunter
Vex
12480
Yeah I can agree some glyphs seem mandatory and some just suck really bad. They should consolidate glyphs and add glyphs like these:

-Glyph of Mending: Increases all healing done to you and your pet by 10% and increases the amount of healing done by your Mend Pet by 60%.
-Glyph of Mend Pet: Your first Mend Pet tick has a 100% of removing a single magic effect. Every time your Mend Pet ticks the chance of clearing a magic effect goes down by 25%. (So first tick 100%, second tick 75%, third 50%, fourth 25%).
-Glyph of Feign Death: While you are under the effects of Feign Death you also trigger Camouflage, this does not interact with the Camouflage CD and as soon as you move the effect is cancelled.
-Glyph of Camouflage 2: You can now be in combat for 2 seconds before Camouflage ends.
-Glyph of Master's Call: Your pet no longer has to run to you and increases the duration of Master's Call by 4 seconds.
-Glyph of No Escape: Increases crit chance by 100%
-Glyph of Scatter Shot: Increases the range of Scatter Shot by 3 yards and Scatter Shot can no longer be dodge-able.
-Glyph of Tranquilizing Shot: Your Tranquilizing Shot no longer costs focus and removes 2 buffs and has a 10 seconds CD.
-Glyph of Tranquilizing Shot 2: Your Tranquilizing Shot now also reduces the enemies cast time by 10% for 5 seconds.
-Glyph of Disengage 2: If you are stunned, feared or rooted while in the air during Disengage the CD is reset.
-Glyph of Concussive Shot: Increases the duration of Concussive Shot by 5 seconds.
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90 Orc Hunter
11435
Blizzard doesn't read these forums, they have stated they don't read class forums multiple times, dispute the fact they they spend time in OTHER classes forums.

They just don't care about hunters.
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90 Orc Hunter
8605
great post, tosan. glad that there are still hunters out there who are fighting for fixes.

woot for MM and SV! *crosses fingers blizz will listen*
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93 Human Hunter
Vex
12480
Blizzard doesn't read these forums, they have stated they don't read class forums multiple times, dispute the fact they they spend time in OTHER classes forums.

They just don't care about hunters.


That may be true, but maybe if we have threads like this Hunters will at least be on the same page when it comes to our concerns instead of screaming that they want to dual wield or some crap.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14590
I agree with the piercing shots idea but they really should revamp it to flow better with our CC. Instead of a dot after a crit, they could change it to "your steady shot crits cause your next aimed or chimera shot shot to go through armor. Limit 2 charges."
Edited by Nyess on 11/10/2012 1:21 PM PST
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93 Human Hunter
Vex
12480
Or they could just change Piercing Shots to do 30% of the damage your Steady, Chimera and Aimed Shot does, whether it crits or not. Then change piercing shots to never break any CC.

Perhaps MM mastery should increase the damage of Piercing Shots by %.
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90 Orc Hunter
10900
As usual Tosan is 100% right. (Except about the trap launcher toggle.) As a hunter who got his T2 weapon and specced MM to see how much more damage I could do, I was horribly dissapointed. 41k crits of aimed shot, Chimera feels like it is hitting for the exact same that it did in cata (the heal is the same as well). The powershot bug makes me rage like no other. I love popping my cds only to see nothing.

I really want to see entrapment come back for MM/surv hunters. As of right now we feel a little too fragile, and this one change could really help us. (doubtful though since blizz will just tell us to spec into narrow escape.)
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90 Troll Hunter
16610
Marksmanship is not even a spec anymore.

You choose it and what do you get, 3 abilities? Chimera, Steady Shot, Aimed Shot. It is boring.

Marksmanship lost ALL of its unique utility. Readiness, Silencing Shot and Posthaste were what made it the top spec, and now the other two specs get to use them. Not only that, but the other two specs get their own unique utility such as Intimidation and Entrapment.

And what the hell happened to Chimera Shot? It used to be an INTERESTING ability. It used to have three different utilities added to it that were completely removed when they removed Scorpid and Viper Sting from the game.

The 5% heal on Chimera Shot was gutted because hunter self-healing was too high in the beginning of the beta, because of other healing talents. The Chimera Shot glyph they added made the heal 10%, so they nerfed it so hard that it was even worse than what it was to begin with, 3%.

Marksmanship has nothing, it is terrible. It is uninteresting. It's ONE mechanic has more RNG in it than any other mechanic in the game. It is a strict 50% chance to get Master Marksman stacks for an instant Aimed Shot. Half of the time. There's no skill involved whatsoever.

It is a horrific spec and a small fix here and there is not going to fix it. Any damage buffs should be directly put into its burst. The rest of the fixes should be to its mechanics. It should receive the utility it deserves.

But it probably won't. And given that this is the Hunter forum, I wouldn't expect this to get any attention. Beast Mastery will take its nerfs and be pitiful against decent players, and Survival will continue to get 4k crits on resilience with Explosive Shot.
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90 Orc Hunter
5035
Need to put in there;

Aimed shot is a 3 second cast -- if you allow an ability to hit like this you should be punished

Wish I could find the quote about the Chaos Bolt from warlocks forums, but yeah.

If they get a 3 second cast that hits for 100-250k, why cant we.


You have to consider that our cast cannot be Counterspelled/interrupted like an actual cast, and that Chaos Bolt also requires them to freecast other abilities to build up Embers. Cannot directly compare them :) We don't have a prerequisite (like embers) to cast Aimed Shot (besides focus lol) and it's a physical cast, so it shouldn't hit quite as hard, especially since we can proc free instant ones eventually.

I do agree it should hit harder than it currently does though, but not as hard as Chaos Bolt.
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90 Orc Hunter
5035
11/10/2012 02:47 PMPosted by Penguintamer
The 5% heal on Chimera Shot was gutted because hunter self-healing was too high in the beginning of the beta, because of other healing talents. The Chimera Shot glyph they added made the heal 10%, so they nerfed it so hard that it was even worse than what it was to begin with, 3%.


Yeah I totally forgot about that, I didn't play beta but I knew that was the reason. Hunters had 15% heal on disengage, 10% heal on chimera......they gutted both because it was too much (understandably so), and left Chimera in an awful state of pathetic healing.

PLZ FIX
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26 Human Mage
60
Chimaera and Aimed Shot just need huge buffs. Anywhere between 25-50% depending on how other classes are balanced next patch. A better heal would be good, but it's not something I would prefer over others. Atm Chimaera and Aimed both critting w/ rapid fire up on a high resil target is doing 80kish damage as burst I believe. It should really be around 150k.

Instead of Widow Venom being baked into Arcane Shot they should probably just add a armor ignore effect to it to help with burst. 50% or 66% armor reduction (to help reach that 150k burst I mentioned earlier) plus the MS effect on a 15-20s cd and 10s uptime (undispellable) would actually require burst set up time and a window for it to happen. Remove the 30 focus cost and make it 0-15.

Put all pet abilities on the same cd and get rid of monkey stun -> dismiss -> summon crane -> sleep (just an example). Dismissing pets mid game and rotating roar of sac's or other pet abilities is stupid.

I highly doubt they'll remove level 75 talents and replace them with something else, so I'd rather just give ideas to improve them. Remove BM mastery from affecting all of these abilities and tune them accordingly. Lynx Rush should be on the specific target, not random within a 10 yard radius. Allow pet's prowl to be used in combat (pretty sure it can't be used in combat) so we can prowl -> blink strike for burst.

Pet survivability is awful right now. Give us a 2.5 second pet resurrection timer or buff pet survivability.

The trap toggling is pretty awful I must admit, but traps taking 2 seconds to trigger is even worse I think. I don't think the toggling would be much of an issue as far as landing traps goes if the arming time was .2 or .5 seconds, rather than 0.1-2 seconds. You wouldn't be able to place sneaky traps but maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if they actually triggered fast enough on a concussive shot target.
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93 Human Hunter
Vex
12480
I don't mind the trap toggle, I think its much better than the Cataclysm version. But I do think Blizzard needs to decide whether we can't place traps either when silenced or disarmed but no both.
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100 Draenei Hunter
11125
My thoughts:

I share many opinions with the above poster(s). So I won't go into detail with them, however...

-I am concerned that at this time the hunter 'rotation' of sorts does not GEL like it did in the previous x-pac.

-I do enjoy 'Blink Strike' and find that 'Blink Strike' brings interesting utility for pets that use a melee ability (Gorilla, Bird of Prey, Alligator).

-The current trap launcher design is miserable, please revert it as Tosan has requested. I 100% agree, I miss open trapping!

-With the removal of 'Aspect of the Fox' aspects have become outdated... Perhaps this would be a good time to make 'Aspect of the Hawk' passive and introduce toggles for different arrow types. You may only have one arrow type active at a time. [Ice Arrow] toggle to make concussive shot apply a run speed limit but increase cool-down. [Fire Arrow] toggle to add '%' armor pen to shots but increase shot cool-downs. [Nature Arrow] toggle to add poison to your arrows w/e. (Someone expand on this idea).

*NOTE - Would this thread be more visible if moved to the PvP Forums?

Got Moxie?
www.moxiegaming.com
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