Guardian stamina

90 Tauren Druid
12115
The stat weight on icy-veins (and Mr Robot which seems to copy off there) recommends Stamina ahead of Agility. As a result, AMR ends up thinking that Relic of Niuzao is the best trinket on the face of the planet. Even if you select the hit/exp/crit build.

Is this something I should follow in my gemming and trinket selection, e.g. use stam/dodge trinkets, and use half-stam or full-stam gems in every socket?

edit: looking to gear suitably for MV 10N.
Edited by Autumni on 11/14/2012 10:40 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
Stamina is a giant waste of time for normal mode raiding.
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90 Tauren Druid
5660
Cata Red AGI IN EVERY SLOT PLS
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From my experience in testing mastery vs crit, I definitely prefer crit by far as I can control my suriviability a lot better w/ sd and fr versus depending on a little bit more armor. However, looking at armory of heroic progressed guardians, I have seen fully gemmed mastery druids doing perfectly fine and crit build druids as well. They all have a mixture of stam/agility enchants across the board. If your anywhere around 405k (I am 401k) in humanoid armory page to heavier stam stacked druids, 460k, you are fine in terms of hp pool.

If your getting killed in 3-4 seconds, increasing your hp pool by 20-30k hp will not help most likely as you probably stepped into a pool of bad stuff or didnt react to boss mechanic or use a defensive ability.

Guides and simulationbots are a good source, just follow them with a grain of salt. Everybodies raid group varies from person to person.

For MV 10, I would suggest crit build w/ hit/soft exp cap as it did me wonders. Don't really gem for stam, if you want to boost hp, do as I did in catalysm, use stam flask and stam trinkets. Don't enchant and regem just for stam vs agility debate again.
Edited by Williee on 11/15/2012 1:47 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
6820
Autumni, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot and wanted to drop in to help.

As Arielle stated, you might not need to load up on Stamina. You can change this in AMR in 1 of 2 ways. You can either change the weight on it, or put in a hard cap. The hard cap is there to say, "Hey, I need enough stamina, but when I get X amount, I don't really need any more." We do the same thing for spirit on healers, as an example.

As for the stat weights, we work with IV. We both come up with weights independently, then when they differ, we chat to figure out why, and come up with the best ones together. We then talk to a lot of theorycrafters and read up on EJ to make sure they are in line with what the top theorycrafters think they should be.
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90 Tauren Druid
11070
460k for heavier stam stackers? lol try 478k w/ mediocre gear. last night I popped my non-glyphed ursoc and a warrior shouted for me and I was over 1m hp for 10 seconds lol.

Why are some of you talking about choosing between hit/exp and stamina? one is secondary stat one is primary. It's not too hard to ask for both.

Enchants don't have much to choose from. most professional persks come in the form of main stats only so stam is the only choice on many pieces, only a few others can you choose between hit/exp or stam and either is enough to make a huge dent in your stats.

as for gemming, I only gemmed for a total of 320 expertise over 2 half stam gems. I only did them for red socket bonuses also, and yet, I'm still over 7.5% easy.

7.5% is not hard to reach with basic gear and reforging. I'm not even in full epics and I am over hit capped with 12.69% expertise. I could easily sacrifice some stam gems and get the hard cap but I'm still debating on that.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
11/15/2012 06:59 PMPosted by Thornykitty
Why are some of you talking about choosing between hit/exp and stamina? one is secondary stat one is primary. It's not too hard to ask for both.

Hit / Stam are on the same gem though.

The point is extra Stamina does basically nothing in Normal mode raiding. That being said the competing options aren't that glamorous (Chest, Legs, Shoulder enchants being the obvious ones).
Edited by Arielle on 11/15/2012 9:17 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
11070

Hit / Stam are on the same gem though.

The point is extra Stamina does basically nothing in Normal mode raiding. That being said the competing options aren't that glamorous (Chest, Legs, Shoulder enchants being the obvious ones).


Green Nimble gem has hit and stam both on the same gem which would work perfectly for a yellow if you are short on hit. blue can still be used with pure stam until you fall short after that.

Also, there's ALOT of hit on gear. I got no hit gemmed, or enchanted, I'm reforging most of my hit into exp or dodge and I still have over 8% hit.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
11/17/2012 01:48 AMPosted by Thornykitty
Also, there's ALOT of hit on gear. I got no hit gemmed, or enchanted, I'm reforging most of my hit into exp or dodge and I still have over 8% hit.

Using hit gems can allow you to reforge more, and still stay hit capped (ie. what I'm doing).
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
Personally I grabbed hit/soft exp cap and started going into mastery, mainly because on one tank fights I dps, and personally for normal mode raids as a tank is more about CD usage, and doing what you should than it is about gear, especially if your in gear equal to the content.

Not to mention mastery stacking isn't bad, I know on will out dk tank gets hit for 155kish while I only take 125k hits, which is pretty awesome, not to mention on that fight particularity you won't really even need the crit, seeing as how you actually tank for such a short period of time as long as you go in with 100 rage you can easily keep sd up the whole time your tanking.
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90 Tauren Druid
11070
Also, there's ALOT of hit on gear. I got no hit gemmed, or enchanted, I'm reforging most of my hit into exp or dodge and I still have over 8% hit.

Using hit gems can allow you to reforge more, and still stay hit capped (ie. what I'm doing).


I don't think you understand my predicament...I have nearly 8.5% hit AFTER reforging hit away. the only reason why I didn't reforge some hit on gear is because the there's alot more of the other stat for me to reforge to get what I want. so no, using hit gems will not allow me to reforge more, since I already have excessively more to reforge without gemming hit.

11/15/2012 12:06 AMPosted by Arielle
Stamina is a giant waste of time for normal mode raiding.

11/15/2012 09:17 PMPosted by Arielle
Why are some of you talking about choosing between hit/exp and stamina? one is secondary stat one is primary. It's not too hard to ask for both.

Hit / Stam are on the same gem though.

The point is extra Stamina does basically nothing in Normal mode raiding. That being said the competing options aren't that glamorous (Chest, Legs, Shoulder enchants being the obvious ones).


Yes, in normal mode stam gems are not needed(neither are the competing options for that matter). Yes, in normal mode gear doesn't matter much. Hell, in normal mode it doesn't even matter if you go in with stock non-reforged, empty socketed, and unenchanted gear. But I assume no one here really want to stay in normal mode forever. I assume every somewhat serious raider out there are planning to get past normal and move into heroic mode at some point. So yea, let's talk about the value of stam for guardian as if every guardian here is preparing for heroic content.

Is it viable? yes, in my opinion, very.
Edited by Thornykitty on 11/17/2012 5:10 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
11/17/2012 04:40 PMPosted by Thornykitty
So yea, let's talk about the value of stam for guardian as if every guardian here is preparing for heroic content.

Which is something only 5% of the population is actually doing right now.

http://www.wowprogress.com/

Excluding Feng and Stone Guard - neither of which are Stamina fights.
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100 Worgen Druid
17900
I didn't think about gemming stam till H Will and didn't actually do it until HMV was done.

It can viable, but it is also a stat that is less useful than others in most situations so unless you want to gem swap more often, I wouldn't do it unless you really understand what you are using it for.
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100 Tauren Druid
14085
11/17/2012 04:40 PMPosted by Thornykitty
I have nearly 8.5% hit AFTER reforging hit away. the only reason why I didn't reforge some hit on gear is because the there's alot more of the other stat for me to reforge to get what I want.


It would be better to reforge the hit. Any hit over 7.5% is a wasted stat, which means you're technically getting less of the stats you want.

11/17/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Tyrnyx
I wouldn't do it unless you really understand what you are using it for.


This.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
11/17/2012 04:40 PMPosted by Thornykitty
I have nearly 8.5% hit AFTER reforging hit away

You haven't reforged out of Hit on every piece.

11/17/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Tyrnyx
I wouldn't do it unless you really understand what you are using it for.
As Sael already pointed out, this.
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100 Tauren Druid
13525
Hit and exp to 2550 > Crit > Mastery > Haste (veeery close behind mastery almost the same) > dodge is useless......

The reason why dodge is useless...a normal guardian druid who just follows reforgelite or most sites without actually looking stuff up would think dodge > mastery > everything else. So you take MASSIVE amounts of stats that would not only increase your damage but also your rage regen, for what? MAYBE 10% more dodge? With crit you not only do more damage (duh) you get ALOT more rage. With more rage you can have more uptime up on SD which is 45% or 50% with t14 4set which EASILY makes up from the insignificant amount of dodge you would get from reforging. Not to mention spamming more FR. MoP isnt like older expansions where the tanks only job was to live, now the tanks DPS is takin into consideration more than ever before, thats if you watch any top guilds with bear druids (which isnt alot because bears are easily the lowest form of tanks) they have lower hp compared to other tanks because Agil trinkets over > stam trinkets anyday. the only reason the darkmoon card is useful is because it gives 12% dodge on a 1 minute CD which is !@#$ing massive.

TL;DR
The insignificant amount of dodge you gain from reforging, compared to the MASSIVE dps increase and rage regen from crit makes up for it EASILY with SD and FR by far. SD makes dodge on gear useless....and doing 40k hps self healing isnt bad either.

P.S unless they do something about FR with the t14 4set bonus on certain fights druids are easily going to pull 60k+ hps later on in the expansion while keeping up savage defense
Edited by Zenyù on 11/20/2012 12:51 AM PST
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