Blizzard You gotta nerf Frost BOMB!

100 Blood Elf Paladin
17735
'm sorry, but every suggestion you have made is bad. No class should just be made underpowered because it was strong in the past.


Ret pallies says hi, we still being nerfed because we're too good smashing undergeared people at random battlegrounds.
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MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
I just have one suggestion.

What if the Glyph of Fire Blast removed it's damage? It's mainly a PvP glyph, right? I know changes are probably already done but it's an idea I just had and I thought it was good, because it was my idea, but it seems reasonable. Just cuts back some of the damage.

But I don't really know, maybe Fire Blast's damage doesn't make a difference / The glyph could be used in PvE.


Pretty much every Fire Mage uses it in PvE (one who doesn't is making a mistake). The effects the glyph has on Nether Tempest and Frost Bomb were added to ensure that Fire Mages weren't locked into Living Bomb as a result of using the glyph.

I would replace the Frost Bomb effect with one more similar to the Living Bomb and Nether Tempest effects -- something that improves cleave/AOE, rather than instant detonation.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
6730
11/15/2012 05:51 PMPosted by Marcellena
Both of those suggestions are awful because they would hurt frost's pve damage. The best solution is to make frost bomb not scale with Frost's mastery, and then compensate frost somewhere else.

Seeing as frost mages do top pve dps right now I fail to see the problem with this.
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100 Human Paladin
14065
11/25/2012 05:48 AMPosted by Lhivera
I would replace the Frost Bomb effect with one more similar to the Living Bomb and Nether Tempest effects -- something that improves cleave/AOE, rather than instant detonation.


This is probably a good idea, since earlier you stated that Frost Bomb wasn't competitive with the other 2 bombs' AoE until 6+ targets. It would fix both the single target PvP burst issue and the multi-target PvE issue in one move.
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90 Human Mage
10015
11/25/2012 09:27 AMPosted by Dekkar
I would replace the Frost Bomb effect with one more similar to the Living Bomb and Nether Tempest effects -- something that improves cleave/AOE, rather than instant detonation.


This is probably a good idea, since earlier you stated that Frost Bomb wasn't competitive with the other 2 bombs' AoE until 6+ targets. It would fix both the single target PvP burst issue and the multi-target PvE issue in one move.


Oh, I don't consider that 6+ targets thing a problem. Each bomb is meant to be pretty much equal for single-target DPS (and they are), but to have strengths and weaknesses relative to the other two in cleave and AOE situations. Roughly speaking, Living Bomb is the best cleaver, Nether Tempest is best when the targets aren't well-clustered, and Frost Bomb is the best AOE. This is a fine design, not really a problem to be corrected.

Something simple like: using Fire Blast while your Frost Bomb is ticking down increases its damage to secondary targets by 10% should make for a similar result to the Nether Tempest effect, without changing the balance of the talents in multi-target situations.
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100 Night Elf Druid
10340
Frost Bomb does its damage because of the target being frozen. Commonly, this is because of Deep Freeze.

Because Frost Bomb takes 6 seconds to go off now, and Deep Freeze only lasts 4 seconds, mages have two choices:

1) They can use Frost bomb -> DF -> Fire Blast, or
2) Frost bomb, wait 2 seconds, deep freeze.

In option one, the mage loses time to burst through deep freeze, ultimately reducing their damage. In option two, the mage risks the opponent using defensive cooldowns, dispels, silences or LoSing, as a frost bomb without a freeze is nothing special.

Basically, mages' burst is more difficult to pull off, or less potent.


Reinhart is a good player, he knows what he is talking about. So you dont need to explain it to him like he is a moron who just doesn't understand.

You say that the issue is that they don't do enough damage in a deep freeze using fireblast to detonate frostbomb. The issue is that this DOES do so much damage still and needs to be addressed.
Edited by Vaelseir on 12/11/2012 1:15 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
10340
11/25/2012 11:54 AMPosted by Lhivera
Something simple like: using Fire Blast while your Frost Bomb is ticking down increases its damage to secondary targets by 10% should make for a similar result to the Nether Tempest effect, without changing the balance of the talents in multi-target situations.


Good suggestion! I assume you also mean that it would not instantly detonate the single target effect?
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MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
12/11/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Vaelseir
Something simple like: using Fire Blast while your Frost Bomb is ticking down increases its damage to secondary targets by 10% should make for a similar result to the Nether Tempest effect, without changing the balance of the talents in multi-target situations.


Good suggestion! I assume you also mean that it would not instantly detonate the single target effect?


Correct. It would convert the glyph from a "make Frost Bomb go off now" effect to a "make Frost Bomb do slightly higher damage to secondary targets" effect similar to the Nether Tempest effect.

As it happens, GC tweeted about this recently, saying that the glyph is "on their list" and they're thinking about it, but that the potential risk is that without the glyph, Frost Bomb would never deal damage in PvP.
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90 Undead Hunter
10595
Frosts PVE damage would suck.
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MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
As of tonight's hotfixes, Frost Bomb deals half damage if detonated with glyphed Fire Blast.
________________________________________________
Find answers to questions about Mage mechanics in
Lhivera’s Compendium • http://lhiveras-library.com/compendium
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90 Draenei Mage
13780
Perhaps we can get worked on a bit to now do damage outside of our burst window?
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100 Gnome Mage
10750
12/11/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Lhivera
As of tonight's hotfixes, Frost Bomb deals half damage if detonated with glyphed Fire Blast.


Let's see if this manages to stop all the whiners and armchair designers who think they know best on how mage damage should work (I doubt it, but one can hope)...
Edited by Jibbajabba on 12/12/2012 7:36 AM PST
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90 Troll Mage
10795
Yea, I haven't had the chance to use it on Elegon yet, looks like I'll be keeping with living bomb and praying to the RNG gods so I can make it through all four sparks.
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100 Gnome Mage
10750
12/12/2012 07:48 AMPosted by Dadunga
Yea, I haven't had the chance to use it on Elegon yet, looks like I'll be keeping with living bomb and praying to the RNG gods so I can make it through all four sparks.


You may want to bank those FoF charges and/or BF procs as the damage reduction is somewhat noticeable (and quite noticeable in PvP).
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90 Orc Shaman
11830
12/12/2012 07:48 AMPosted by Dadunga
Yea, I haven't had the chance to use it on Elegon yet, looks like I'll be keeping with living bomb and praying to the RNG gods so I can make it through all four sparks.


Put bomb on Elegon, detonate when sparks appear?
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90 Troll Mage
18105
12/12/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Mahanik
Put bomb on Elegon, detonate when sparks appear?


The problem is now you have to time it perfectly vs detonating with fire blast the instant they spawn or you lose 50% of the dmg.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7990
Frost bomb

Chaos wave

Dragon Roar\ Shockwave

Chaos bolt

in fact nothign should be critting anyone for more than 75k. Anything criting over 75K is over powered and should be capped on players. Burst is the worst i have ever expirienced, and the worst part is that Blizz is not fixing it. Waiting for patch after patch for pvp adjustments sucks!

Completly out playing a team burning there cooldowns and conrtoling the overall fight, just to lose in 2 globals is crappy design.


Chaos Bolt unlike the others takes time to gain a secondary resource and either has to use another CD, or is fricken long to cast. So yes Chaos Bolt should be the f'n hardest hitting spell in the game. Nothing that is instant or shorter should hit as hard.

Now if you dont want it to hit as hard, then break it down into faster shorter casts. But then you really hurt the class because having 4 chaos bolts in a small window is what drops adds, and hard mobs while out not pvping. Considering mages and Frost bomb its the tool kit. They are the most slippery of all classes, and have lots of CC. Much of it instant. They have blink on a short CD that gets them out of trouble, plus a couple cd's to mitigate all incoming damage.
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90 Human Mage
8630
The frost bomb/fire blast glyph nerf at 50%, instead of 37.5% or 24.37%, is another example of reactive nerfing. There is no rhyme or reason for 50% other than it is a nice round number. It has zero chance of being the product of reasoned consideration of the facts. In fact, it is such a nice round figure, that I am quite certain that on the doodle napkin showing the "math" supporting this nerf, there is a booger.
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