Kill command is a focus dump, not arcane shot

90 Draenei Hunter
3000
When this does actually change? Per focus it's much worse than acrance shot, currently have average 458ilvl and only gun from a heroic, no epic weapon to boost dmg of arcane even further. Arcane shot hits for about 20k on average, where kill command 26-27k (with mastery buff) at most, not crit dmg of course. Arcane shot procs cobra strikes, should be also considered.

Basically now i use kill command only when have too much focus, i.e. just a focus dump and of course during bestial wrath on cd. I won't cast cobra shot just to use kill command every 6sec, since cobra shot does horrible dmg and it will be dps loss, only cast to extend serpent sting duration. Though serpent sting is also quite weak.

So, why our special move with a 6sec cd is so horrible?

p.s.
I don't even want to tell, that until 90 kill command did even less dmg, than arcane shot.....
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10780
1: You aren't using focus fire, are you?
2: if your weapon is significantly better than the rest of your gear, arcane shot is better.
3: I don't know what to tell you, my kill command non crit averages ~58k wheras my arcane shot non crit averages 26k. Considering the GCD usage for each, kill command trumps arcane shot by an incredible amount, even if you discount my 2 pc bonus.
4: Your pet IS ferocity, right?
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
3620
If this is pve

You have too much mastery u need to balence between crit and mastery
u need. Lord boomington scope the agi Proc scope
U need to get searing words from scholo and replace the agi Stat trinket
Lynx rush and dire beast talents are the correct talents to choose they are the top Dps talents at the moment
Kc should be used every Cd it is our signature move

Killumuchtwo on bonechewer is my main
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bonechewer/Killumuchtwo/

Sorry for off topic just some suggestions
Edited by Briteyes on 11/15/2012 10:54 PM PST
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
If this is pve

You have too much mastery u need to balence between crit and mastery
u need. Lord boomington scope the agi Proc scope
U need to get searing words from scholo and replace the agi Stat trinket
Lynx rush and dire beast talents are the correct talents to choose they are the top Dps talents at the moment
Kc should be used every Cd it is our signature move

Killumuchtwo on bonechewer is my main
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bonechewer/Killumuchtwo/

Sorry for off topic just some suggestions

Too much mastery? Not really, it's lover than my crit rating, crit and mastery for best synergy best to keep close. And mastery actually buffs kill command dmg too, so this doesn't make sense, my original complain is on kill command dmg in pve is too low, not too high.

I get better scope when i get at least better heroic weapon or maybe from raid soon. This still has little to do with low kc dmg.

Regarding trinket, for bm stats still go this way agi>mastery>crit, of course hit, exp capped. Not exp. capped yet, but probably will reforge soon.

Lynx rush is a bit worse if blink strike is used on cd and i prefer extra mobility from pet, gets me few extra attacks, don't need to wait until pet gets close. Dire beast maye will be better for single target dps latter on, but for now it doesn't provide focus regen good enough and i would end up casting cobra shot A LOT, especially for cleave, when no other choise, but to use glaive toss/multishot. So dmg from dire beast won't be enough to cover dmg i would get from so many toth procs.

I'm explaining exactly why i don't use kill command on cd, because it lowers dps, should i use it blindly just because it's our signature move?

p.s.
On single target with my gear i pull out about 40-45k dps over 2-3min without using readiness.
Edited by Xellz on 11/15/2012 11:30 PM PST
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
Oh, to be sure, now i'm talking about 93lvl dummy dmg. Normally kill command hits for 25-26k with ferocity pet after popping agi trinket (~4k agi) dmg increases to 35-36k.
Edited by Xellz on 11/15/2012 11:58 PM PST
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i'm not 90 quite yet but i'm with you on dire beast

just doing panda dungeons i'm forced to move a lot. when i had dire beast with either bm or survival it was a pain and my dps was not as good as with toth. in fact keeping up black arrow while moving you get a lot of free explosive shots, and those no-cost explosive shots proc toth quite often. i end up with a focus surplus at times - while moving.

at my level in my gear i was able to maintain 20k dps on the last boss in that brewery joint..the one that tosses stuff at you that you have to move to make drop and the lines of rancid beer you have to jump etc. oh and of course the add swapping. i was impressed with myself since i was barely 16k with dire beast and neither a dire beast nor toth bm spec was doing any better than 16k because of the focus cost of kill command

free explosive shots procing free arcane shots while moving. pretty hot. only had to stop once every now and then to cobra so serp wouldn't drop.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
3620
The armory must be old/glitching it says 28.85% mastery 14.12%crit
And it also says u have 6.61% hit
The agi trinket is useless and Dps decrease because haste Prof does nothing for u
I follow elitist jerks shot priority. And guide so I don't know what to tell u
I pull 50-60k every raid boss and

on 5 man bosses I pull 150k peak and 60-90k average on bosses when I have all cds 50-70k average without

But I guess ill have to look into my Dps info maybe I can increase my dps.

No this is not sarcasm or me being cocky or w/e I mean what I said
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
The armory must be old/glitching it says 28.85% mastery 14.12%crit
And it also says u have 6.61% hit
The agi trinket is useless and Dps decrease because haste Prof does nothing for u
I follow elitist jerks shot priority. And guide so I don't know what to tell u
I pull 50-60k every raid boss and

on 5 man bosses I pull 150k peak and 60-90k average on bosses when I have all cds 50-70k average without

But I guess ill have to look into my Dps info maybe I can increase my dps.

No this is not sarcasm or me being cocky or w/e I mean what I said


Mastery rating, not how high dmg bonus from mastery is obviously :)

Original question was not about dps, shot priority etc, it was when is actual breaking point when KC becomes better than arcane shot. I guess need mostly epic gear for this and 2 pieces set bonus for additional 15% dmg on KC. Poor design for this ability and really weird scaling.

6.61% hit +1% racial., so 7.6% total.

Uptime of proc is not that big, agi > crit. And about what i asked in the first place, changing back to crit trinket will actually reduce dmg on KC even further.

edit:
Just checked dps again, since had a bit of upgrades in last week, can pull out about 45-50k dps with cooldowns during several min
Edited by Xellz on 11/16/2012 4:58 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
3620
hehe im sorry i even posted. kc for me me is is about 40k onn no procs no buffs then its 60k with crits in the 115-120k range and my maximum arcane shot is 60k crit
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90 Pandaren Hunter
7530
My KC was hitting much harder than my AS the moment i dinged 90 and long before as far as i can remember... i don't know what the deal is with you. Make sure your pet is ferocity lol
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
3620
11/16/2012 08:51 AMPosted by Comandapanda
My KC was hitting much harder than my AS the moment i dinged 90 and long before as far as i can remember... i don't know what the deal is with you. Make sure your pet is ferocity lol


pretty much this^
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90 Troll Hunter
14735
I recently started breaking 100k with my KC. Pretty sure it isn't due to weird fight mechanics, but it is definitely due to procs/buffs.

Either way, it makes me giggle.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
12325
What's with all the misinformation in this thread?

BM secondary stat priority (after caps) is Crit>Mastery>Haste.

The top DPS talents at the moment are Dire Beast, Glaive Toss, and either MoC (if it lasts the full 30 seconds every time it's used) or LR (when you need more burst or with a lot of target switching).
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90 Troll Hunter
5070
I use LR because I solo a lot and need something to help with the pet picking up aggro.

For the topic, KC becomes much better as you gear up.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
So much misinformation in this thread, it's painful to read.

1. CRIT IS YOUR BEST SECONDARY

The order is Crit > Haste > Mastery. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise hates math. Don't worry about "keeping them together" or some garbage like that, you literally cannot get enough Crit yet to even touch your soft caps. You literally -cannot- have enough Crit yet to make shifting into another secondary matter... and since there are no Haste breakpoints, those are our priorities.

-

2. THE BEST SKILLS SINGLE TARGET...

...are Dire Beast, Glaive Toss and A Murder of Crows. This is current as of 5.0.5 and even more true in 5.1. The only situations where you would use Lynx Rush are also the same situations where you would play SV instead of BM... keep that in mind. And while I haven't bothered to explain it in the past - you do know to use expensive abilities like A Murder of Crows during Bestial Wrath, right?


Elitist jerks don't agree with you on secondary stats and with haste it's even more simpler, since bad synergy and almost nothing to cast. Dire beast i'll get latter, like with KC it also need some gear first, though heroic gear is not enough for this.

And i mentioned already, of course i'm using ferocity pets. How much does it hit for without any procs and without BW?
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
11/16/2012 08:51 AMPosted by Comandapanda
My KC was hitting much harder than my AS the moment i dinged 90 and long before as far as i can remember... i don't know what the deal is with you. Make sure your pet is ferocity lol


It was hitting harder for a while, but certainly not twice as much, most of the time had some random blue bow from dung, not even heirloom. KC cost twice as more focus and doesn't proc cobra strikes, so it needs to be much better than AS. And of course using ferocity pet, mentioned this in previous posts.

As i understand, i need about 6-7k more attack power for KC to be better than AS. Have trinket on use 4.2k agi. Just to compare how much dmg is changed actually. Non-crit, without bestial wrath, KC hits for 29.2k without agi trinket, on use it hits 42.5k non-crit while dmg of AS barely noticeable. This is with spirit beasts mastery buff. So i got my answer, scaling of AS with stats is horrible, while KC gets really huge benefit, that's all.
Edited by Xellz on 11/16/2012 1:30 PM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
14735
So much misinformation in this thread, it's painful to read.

1. CRIT IS YOUR BEST SECONDARY

The order is Crit > Haste > Mastery. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise hates math. Don't worry about "keeping them together" or some garbage like that, you literally cannot get enough Crit yet to even touch your soft caps. You literally -cannot- have enough Crit yet to make shifting into another secondary matter... and since there are no Haste breakpoints, those are our priorities.

-

2. THE BEST SKILLS SINGLE TARGET...

...are Dire Beast, Glaive Toss and A Murder of Crows. This is current as of 5.0.5 and even more true in 5.1. The only situations where you would use Lynx Rush are also the same situations where you would play SV instead of BM... keep that in mind. And while I haven't bothered to explain it in the past - you do know to use expensive abilities like A Murder of Crows during Bestial Wrath, right?


Elitist jerks don't agree with you on secondary stats and with haste it's even more simpler, since bad synergy and almost nothing to cast. Dire beast i'll get latter, like with KC it also need some gear first, though heroic gear is not enough for this.

And i mentioned already, of course i'm using ferocity pets. How much does it hit for without any procs and without BW?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=34954
Is why Haste is not a complete waste...but even then, you can see where if you were going to put it to Haste, crit would be better. If you can't put it to crit, you then have to consider that Pet Focus -> Pet Damage, and so does Mastery. Speeding up Auto Shots for a chance at almost an additional Basic attack vs every Basic Attack doing more damage, plus KC.

It gets technical. Personally, I take the haste I get, and keep a healthly level of Mastery
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
Elitist jerks don't agree with you on secondary stats


That's great. They're wrong. They've been wrong COUNTLESS times, including Cataclysm where they hated on Disc Mastery, ignoring my solid theorycraft and inarguable numbers. Then ever single world first H. Rag 25 kill had a Disc Priest stacking Mastery. Hurk. Hurk.

EJ just proves once again that it has been at least two expansions since anything they had to say was relevant. What else is new, that's what happens when you let people who don't even do real raiding write your theory.


I don't see any numbers here, just simple claims. And was it worth mentioning world first? That's like... super strong evidence, that has nothing to do with raid setup, raid skill level, how dedicated they farmed gear together with lots of other random stuff thrown in.

For now don't get why haste should be better than mastery, even now with not complete heroic gear and no epic yet already 50-51% dmg is coming through pet and mastery provides quite big and steady increase. Haste on the other hand is rather limited, sure it can be close, but superior? And also, what gear level we're talking about? It's certainly not same with heroic, raid lfg and only BiS

p.s.
If i reforge from mastery to haste, my original complain about KC will be even more true and will become an ability which should be ignored until epic gear and set bonus 15%
Edited by Xellz on 11/17/2012 2:43 AM PST
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