Kill command is a focus dump, not arcane shot

90 Pandaren Hunter
12145
CRIT > HASTE > MASTERY

If you do not understand why by now you should consider a different class.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
CRIT > HASTE > MASTERY

If you do not understand why by now you should consider a different class.


By now? And where you see here anything expect this simple statement, reason for why it's better? No proof at all, at least i stated why crit-mastery have better synergy, than crit-haste, prove otherwise or it's just bs.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8795
http://www.wowhead.com/guide=1213/hunter-bm-your-pet-and-you-a-beastmastery-guide-in-the-mists

You have much much reading to do.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
4630
CRIT > HASTE > MASTERY

If you do not understand why by now you should consider a different class.


By now? And where you see here anything expect this simple statement, reason for why it's better? No proof at all, at least i stated why crit-mastery have better synergy, than crit-haste, prove otherwise or it's just bs.

pretty much this^
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
4630
http://www.wowhead.com/guide=1213/hunter-bm-your-pet-and-you-a-beastmastery-guide-in-the-mists

You have much much reading to do.


all that info is a exact duplicate of ej so people are ganna say its wrong.

when a haste stacking bm hunter is at 5th place and i am at first when he has slightly better/same gear lvl there is a problem

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bonechewer/Killumuchtwo/simple is my main
Edited by Briteyes on 11/17/2012 9:10 AM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
10345
its always been crit-mastery-haste for bm since cata (always is bit strong term for the short time line but you get my point) haste is pretty trashy for bm, it gives us no perks more auto attacks? a slightly shorter cobra shot cast? you must be confused with MM where haste=mastery and crit is only decent(from what i've seen) and as for the KC damage it seems to randomly ramp up quickly i noticed low damage also but as i got geared its damage started going way up
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8795
http://www.wowhead.com/guide=1213/hunter-bm-your-pet-and-you-a-beastmastery-guide-in-the-mists

You have much much reading to do.


all that info is a exact duplicate of ej so people are ganna say its wrong.

when a haste stacking bm hunter is at 5th place and i am at first when he has slightly better/same gear lvl there is a problem

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bonechewer/Killumuchtwo/simple is my main


Thanks for not reading and addressing the first line of skills where is says kill command is your primary nuke ability as BM. Which is the entire point of this thread.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000

Thanks for not reading and addressing the first line of skills where is says kill command is your primary nuke ability as BM. Which is the entire point of this thread.


This part quite important
I've used a roughly BIS with all / best raidbuffs enabled list to get these numbers,
i've sure noticed by now how well KC scales with stats compared to arcane shot and with t14 set bonus scaling becomes even better. Sure blizz doesn't care much about how abilities work during 1-89, only when it's too OP, like how they "fixed" aimed shot, i got to use it actually, my first levels were fun oneshoting all mobs, heh
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90 Worgen Hunter
12425
what is even going on in this thread lol

kill command does twice as much damage as arcane shot
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90 Pandaren Monk
11755
If you are not using Kill Command every single time it's ready to go as BM... Yeah respec into MM or Surv.


Since reading has taken a back seat, let me help some folks here.

The issue and question is that, as BM spec, WHEN does KC become the obvious and superior choice? Why is this a question? Let me show you.

My Hunter is 87. Uses a spirit beast that is Ferocity spec.

AS is 20 Focus, does about 12k normal and 22-24k crit.
KC is 40 focus, 6 sec CD, does about 15k 30-32k crit.

Now, KC SHOULD be the obvious DPS winner, but looking at these numbers, it isn't.

Again, the question is, when, via gear, will KC start to outpace AS in terms of focus spent to damage done.
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90 Pandaren Monk
14225
11/17/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Vasparian
Sigh..... Delete your hunter if you have one.


Shh...adults are talking

Since reading has taken a back seat, let me help some folks here.The issue and question is that, as BM spec, WHEN does KC become the obvious and superior choice? Why is this a question? Let me show you.My Hunter is 87. Uses a spirit beast that is Ferocity spec.AS is 20 Focus, does about 12k normal and 22-24k crit.KC is 40 focus, 6 sec CD, does about 15k 30-32k crit.Now, KC SHOULD be the obvious DPS winner, but looking at these numbers, it isn't.Again, the question is, when, via gear, will KC start to outpace AS in terms of focus spent to damage done.


Aptly summed up from my experience as well.

My 86 Hunter on the Dummy hits for average 17.3k Arcane shot Max 34.3k
Kill command hits for 21.1k average 40.5 max

At her gear and ilvl at least I'm not getting the close to 2x damage I would expect to justify using Kill Command. During Bestial Wrath the gap seems closer but still certainly under 2 to 1.

Throughout all of leveling arcane shot has been the superior choice and only until recently has KC even hit harder than AS, I assume this changes once you hit 90 and are more geared out?
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100 Troll Hunter
13280
Kill Command does, in fact, hit horribly while leveling up. For the most part, you're going to find it does less damage than arcane shot at lower levels. It's a weird scaling process with the pet and has nothing to do with your item level. Once you hit level 90 this problem should, essentially, vanish. You should not be experiencing this at level 90, and if you are I'd like to see some sort of log / screenshot / video of it.

Your weapon damage affects arcane shot, your attack power affects kill command. As you're leveling, you probably have vastly superior blue weapons compared to the stats you're carrying on gear. I leveled to 90 primarily with my heroic DS gear and was using kill command the entire time - truthfully I never noticed a difference between the two focus dumps and never had a problem with anything dying. Though in fairness I did miss server first by a few minutes.

edit;
as for stat weights, they are all very close to 1.00 each. Hunter stats are very balanced and I didn't see a clear winner until my ilevel hit around 490-492. In MSV I'd swap from mastery > crit > haste to haste > crit > mastery after a single item upgrade and saw the numbers both in raids and simulations to justify the discrepancies. You can give a clear cut reforge answer if you want, but unless you're running simulations and cross referencing them for your specific gear set at the time, it's mostly all just hot air. So far my stat weights have evened out to crit > mastery > haste, and I expect this to remain the same unless something happens to tweak a haste build back into preference at higher gear levels. I'm hoping for a marksman powershot adventure.
Edited by Jademcian on 11/17/2012 2:51 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
11755
@Jademcian

Thank you. Finally someone who reads English and understands basic math. Glad to know helpful folks still like to visit the forums.
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90 Pandaren Monk
14225
11/17/2012 05:01 PMPosted by Vasparian
Simple thing. If you are a BM hunter and you don't use Kill command any chance you can, you are doing it very wrong.


Simple thing. If you post in a thread that you haven't read, you are doing it very wrong and making yourself look very dumb.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
14140
@Xellz

I didn't read the second half of all the posts, but to put it simply it's not all about the focus to damage ratio of Arcane Shot and Kill Command. A larger question to be asking is the cost of using a GCD. I find myself with a constant supply of focus and never find myself short and doing Kill Command on cooldown.

According to your numbers, you would do 40k damage in 2 seconds with arcane shot, and 46k damage in 2 seconds with KC and AS. But plugging in your set up into some spreadsheets, you should be hitting KC for around 30-31k w/o a mastery pet buff.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
@Xellz

I didn't read the second half of all the posts, but to put it simply it's not all about the focus to damage ratio of Arcane Shot and Kill Command. A larger question to be asking is the cost of using a GCD. I find myself with a constant supply of focus and never find myself short and doing Kill Command on cooldown.

According to your numbers, you would do 40k damage in 2 seconds with arcane shot, and 46k damage in 2 seconds with KC and AS. But plugging in your set up into some spreadsheets, you should be hitting KC for around 30-31k w/o a mastery pet buff.


Got a bit of upgrades and finally got high enough for raid. In raid environment focus is less of an issue, almost always can use KC on cd, only sometimes delay to use 1-2 free AS. But of course i don't let focus regen completely. Another issue was that AS is magic dmg which ignores armor and dmg of KC can vary quite a lot depends on target and debuffs.

I mentioned in my first post that when i didn't use KC is when KC also means i had to cast extra cobra shot instead of getting of more AS. More AS more chance to get toth procs and more cobra strike procs too.

Basically all this thread can be summarized in few words like this:
Use highest dmg per focus, when focus is low, use highest dmg ability disregarding focus cost when getting close to full/enough
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