Kill command is a focus dump, not arcane shot

90 Draenei Hunter
13880
You should never have such low focus that you aren't able to cast KC. Ever. Track your cooldowns and have enough focus when KC is up so you can use it IMMEDIATELY. It is a BM's strongest ability and should never ever be off cooldown. The ONLY thing you delay is frenzy if you are about to Beastial Wrath.

Edit: Just looked over your armory. Found some more DPS for you:

Switch out barrage for glaive toss.

Switch your mirror scope for Lord Blastington's Scope of Doom.

Belt buckle + agi gem.
Edited by Mezasu on 11/21/2012 4:12 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Hunter
3315
what is even going on in this thread lol

kill command does twice as much damage as arcane shot


^ this, listen to the pro.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
what is even going on in this thread lol

kill command does twice as much damage as arcane shot


^ this, listen to the pro.

Blah, didn't get that was talking about damage per focus? Twice as much dmg still means AS is slightly better per focus, since it also procs cobra strikes. Once KC will hit harden than 2x of AS, only then it will become also better dmg/focus.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
You should never have such low focus that you aren't able to cast KC. Ever. Track your cooldowns and have enough focus when KC is up so you can use it IMMEDIATELY. It is a BM's strongest ability and should never ever be off cooldown. The ONLY thing you delay is frenzy if you are about to Beastial Wrath.

Edit: Just looked over your armory. Found some more DPS for you:

Switch out barrage for glaive toss.

Switch your mirror scope for Lord Blastington's Scope of Doom.

Belt buckle + agi gem.


But i did have problems with focus before and still occasionally do in heroics when bad luck with toth procs and no regen from pet attack. I.e. had to cast extra cobra shots just for focus regen.

I didn't ask about dps and never said have issues with it.

If you check again, barrage is inside survival spec which i use for aoe or questing.

I can use KC immediately, i mean i could, but sometimes it meant i had to cast cobra shot or two to get focus while serpent sting was still long enough. My goal is use cobra shot only to extend serpent sting, no more.

Will try dire beast in raid next time etc.
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90 Draenei Hunter
13880
Sorry, I wasn't implying your dps was bad, just a habit of checking out armories to help people get the most out of their toon without much effort.

Give yourself a focus to maintain during a fight. Like 60-80. You are going to have to use cobra to maintain that, not just for your sting. It is our regen and needs to be utilized. The only time you should be dumping your focus down is when you are wrathing. You can spam arcane to your heart's content since you will regen it faster than you can spend. Otherwise have a cooldown tracker, know when KC is coming, and be ready to use it.

I can see why there might be issues especially with having ToTH. It's a lot to maintain and ToTH is usually taken with an AoE spec (read: SV) in heroic instances and AoE boss fights like Windlord or heroic Feng). Multishot is not the star when you are BM, making ToTH pretty useless. Yea, free arcanes, but there are plenty of times to unload arcanes like during Wrath.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
Sorry, I wasn't implying your dps was bad, just a habit of checking out armories to help people get the most out of their toon without much effort.

Give yourself a focus to maintain during a fight. Like 60-80. You are going to have to use cobra to maintain that, not just for your sting. It is our regen and needs to be utilized. The only time you should be dumping your focus down is when you are wrathing. You can spam arcane to your heart's content since you will regen it faster than you can spend. Otherwise have a cooldown tracker, know when KC is coming, and be ready to use it.

I can see why there might be issues especially with having ToTH. It's a lot to maintain and ToTH is usually taken with an AoE spec (read: SV) in heroic instances and AoE boss fights like Windlord or heroic Feng). Multishot is not the star when you are BM, making ToTH pretty useless. Yea, free arcanes, but there are plenty of times to unload arcanes like during Wrath.


Well, seems just too many people here totally can't read :) Agree, just used toth now because KC was weak with bad gear, now with mostly heroic and valor pants got better, will switch to dire beast or fervor. As for scope and belt, will wait until upgrade, anyway with current amount of stats from gear it not such a huge benefit. At least can stay in top10 dps in LFR.

Why i dislike to use cobra shot is because of how tiny dmg it's doing and how long it takes to cast, so it was better to use extra arcane shots instead of KC+cobra shot (with toth it's possible to spam AS how much you want :))

And when can get 2 pieces of t14, then certainly KC will be much better even per focus.

p.s.
My luck with drops is certainly bad, it took lots of heroics to get even half of gear and now... on third LFR i got my first drop... and it was exactly same slot, as my recent buy for valor, i.e. pants, sigh.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14625
11/17/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Cuddles
Simple thing. If you are a BM hunter and you don't use Kill command any chance you can, you are doing it very wrong.


Simple thing. If you post in a thread that you haven't read, you are doing it very wrong and making yourself look very dumb.


No offence, but everything you keep saying isnt even on a 90 hunter. It makes a difference when we are talking about end game playing. A HUGE difference actually. Hunters are scaling horribly. While leveling in the 85-89 area, your damage is going to be lack luster compared to others. Once you get to 90 and are in heroic gear, you are still lack luster. When the epics start coming in, your dmg will increase, and you are more competitive. But once you get to BIS gear, your dmg seems to come to a halt compared to other classes. We simply dont scale well.

And that is why you cannot, at all, compare your level 87s arcane shot to kill command usage.

With my gear right now, kill command hits way harder than arcane. It crits for 120 somtimes. My arcane doesnt touch that.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14625
Sorry, I wasn't implying your dps was bad, just a habit of checking out armories to help people get the most out of their toon without much effort.

Give yourself a focus to maintain during a fight. Like 60-80. You are going to have to use cobra to maintain that, not just for your sting. It is our regen and needs to be utilized. The only time you should be dumping your focus down is when you are wrathing. You can spam arcane to your heart's content since you will regen it faster than you can spend. Otherwise have a cooldown tracker, know when KC is coming, and be ready to use it.

I can see why there might be issues especially with having ToTH. It's a lot to maintain and ToTH is usually taken with an AoE spec (read: SV) in heroic instances and AoE boss fights like Windlord or heroic Feng). Multishot is not the star when you are BM, making ToTH pretty useless. Yea, free arcanes, but there are plenty of times to unload arcanes like during Wrath.


Well, seems just too many people here totally can't read :) Agree, just used toth now because KC was weak with bad gear, now with mostly heroic and valor pants got better, will switch to dire beast or fervor. As for scope and belt, will wait until upgrade, anyway with current amount of stats from gear it not such a huge benefit. At least can stay in top10 dps in LFR.

Why i dislike to use cobra shot is because of how tiny dmg it's doing and how long it takes to cast, so it was better to use extra arcane shots instead of KC+cobra shot (with toth it's possible to spam AS how much you want :))

And when can get 2 pieces of t14, then certainly KC will be much better even per focus.

p.s.
My luck with drops is certainly bad, it took lots of heroics to get even half of gear and now... on third LFR i got my first drop... and it was exactly same slot, as my recent buy for valor, i.e. pants, sigh.


You might want to upgrade that scope on your heroic weapon now. Including lfr, and actual raids, and extra roll each time, i havent got a bow upgrade 24 times.
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90 Worgen Hunter
8310
I know this is probably dead, but i find it amusing that after 3 pages of people telling him to not have so much mastery and saying what his kill command should be doing, no one realized that he isn't expertise capped.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
10680
12/11/2012 02:31 PMPosted by Feridor
I know this is probably dead, but i find it amusing that after 3 pages of people telling him to not have so much mastery and saying what his kill command should be doing, no one realized that he isn't expertise capped.


Last I checked expertise doesn't effect the direct damage of kill command. On that subject though, Im suprised that after 3 pages we are still hung up in the actual damage of the two abilities yet nobody has mentioned that #1 Kill command being a focus dump is a good thing, cus we have alot of !@#$%^- focus now and spending 40 in one global is alot better than spending it in two if the damage is similiar. Because of cobra shot hunters are a GCD locked class, so that second global cooldown means the loss of almost an entire cobra shot, which is both damage and 14 more focus, even if it does slightly less than two shots, kill command is still probly the better option..if it were not for #2 Arcane shot procs cobra strikes, why has NOBODY mentioned cobra strikes?

So there. I just added a handful of additional variables to make this argument even harder to figure out. Also its worth noting that with explosive shot only costing half of what it did in cata even though our effective supply of focus is quite a bit higher, survival actually has the issue of having too much focus, which causes problems keeping serpent sting up as from time to time (especially during heroism) you can very easily go 15 or 20 seconds without needing to cast cobra shot even once, longer if your invest in blink strike and glaive toss. Hunter's are not resource limited in the same way rogues are, our globals are just as precious as focus is now, so its not just about the damage per focus spent anymore.

Edit: I got off track with that last bit, the point i'm trying to make is that if you didn't use kill command as BM you would have the same rate of focus expenditure as survival (or slightly less), meaning you may very well end up capping focus in your attempts to keep serpent sting going, kill command keeps that orange bar down enough that you can always afford to cast cobra shot to keep the dot rolling.
Edited by Lince on 12/12/2012 4:29 AM PST
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100 Orc Hunter
14720
KC on CD for me, get 120k crits, arcane gets 50-60k crits not even going into BW numbers

I use arcane shot if I'm over 50 focus

78k sustained dps for me
Edited by Mepeteatu on 12/12/2012 10:22 AM PST
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90 Worgen Hunter
8310
I get what you mean, but as for my point exp does in some way effect its damage. With kill command being a physical damaging ability, the exp rating we have makes it so they don't hit glancing blows and such, which would cut the damage it does (which is why his is only hitting for like 25k). Also, exp cap is more important than hit cap for bm hunters, this being one of the key reasons. Otherwise, back to the original question asked, kill command is not a focus dump and like many others have stated it is BMs explosive shot, and one of our hardest hitting abilities.
Edited by Feridor on 12/12/2012 10:34 AM PST
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100 Orc Hunter
14720
12/12/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Feridor
I get what you mean, but as for my point exp does in some way effect its damage. With kill command being a physical damaging ability, the exp rating we have makes it so they don't hit glancing blows and such, which would cut the damage it does (which is why his is only hitting for like 25k). Also, exp cap is more important than hit cap for bm hunters, this being one of the key reasons. Otherwise, back to the original question asked, kill command is not a focus dump and like many others have stated it is BMs explosive shot, and one of our hardest hitting abilities.


Imo you should be capped with both 100% of the time unless you just turned lv 90 and haven't done enough heroics.

Side note: We both seemed to be RNG screwed on ranged weapon drops. ;p
Edited by Mepeteatu on 12/12/2012 10:50 AM PST
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90 Worgen Hunter
8310
I know what you mean lol, I've accepted the fact that I'll be stuck with this bow forever. But, that's normally how it works with me.
Anyways, if you look at the person who started this thread, his hunter is still not exp capped, so I assumed that is what his problem was.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
[quote="73923140006"]...why has NOBODY mentioned cobra strikes?


I was mentioning it several times and in fact i mentioned it in my first post too, lol.

Didn't visit this topic since i leveled a lock and he is almost at same gear lvl already and far outperforms my hunt. Also i don't have a headache to think about how to bind all those abilities. Scaling with gear is way too weird, managing many cooldowns and abilities don't reward anything, it's only necessary to stay close. I didn't play hunt before, wanted to try it. Was fun to play until 90, but now don't want to continue.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3000
12/11/2012 02:31 PMPosted by Feridor
I know this is probably dead, but i find it amusing that after 3 pages of people telling him to not have so much mastery and saying what his kill command should be doing, no one realized that he isn't expertise capped.


What expertise has to do with my original question?

I'm not capped because for what i was doing it made sense, didn't start doing raids, mostly quests, farm of usual mobs, old content and some heroics. dps was adequate wih my gear and didn't hit the bottom of dps unless everyone else was in full raid gear, it's not the problem. Even in those 2 LFR i did, stayed in top 10. Was enough no kill everything from first attempt, although some people did die.
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90 Draenei Hunter
3915
the second poster said something about focus fire. what does that have to do about arcane shot/KC damage? All it does it give you haste....
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90 Troll Hunter
8560
You use more GCDs by using AS focus dump than KC, which is a dps loss.
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