Need some brewmaster help (Logs included)

99 Pandaren Warrior
16285
Some of you might remember a similar thread a few weeks ago, had my co-tank make a few talent tweaks and work on better shuffle/EB uptime.

Still being told hes harder to heal than I am.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/1t4lujxnk0896zj7/dashboard/?enc=bosses

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Lenalee/advanced
(armory is down right now, but I won't remember to edit it in later)

Are there any issues still or do our healers just need to learn how to heal a monk?

Looking at Eflow's most recent logged kill of will the shuffle/EB uptime is similar, looks like the issue is needing to purify more
Edited by Ðemolition on 11/16/2012 1:08 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10770
I don't know much about heroic bosses since I am in a casual guild, but that shuffle seems low I usually aim for 90% uptime. Might want to switch out dampen harm with Diffuse magic I have found much more use from that for many fights. Also when they are not focused on boss they could be spamming zen sphere for extra healing.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
Comparing the two, you've taken in 88.7M healing, and he took in 75.3M healing. Self healing for you takes off 4M, and selfhealing for him takes off 15.2M.

So total damage the healers have to deal with is:

84.7M --- Demolition
60.1M --- Lenalee.

Of that, 2.7M of the healing done to you was by Lenalee.

As well, of the damage he took, 4.4 million was in the use of avert harm, which had 3.2%, but his fortifying brew uptime... well... he only used that twice over all the attempts.

In terms of the boss's melee damage, the only thing he's taken more damage from than you is the Flaming Spear--everything else you're taking more damage from and often by a considerable amount. The exception is melee swing damage, you're both on par with each other there.

This might be a little out there--but maybe the reason he is taking those damage spikes is because he's Averting Harm without Fortifying Brew. In every other metric, he's out performing you.

EDIT: Not quite done analysis tho, hold your horses

Demo has taken 653 melee swings... they've taken 524... so more damage IS being taken per swing. But then WoL doesn't account for stagger either... there's no way right now to track how much damage is getting purified and blizzard needs to find a way to get that into the combat log. There's not enough data to analyse there, but taking less swings does account for the higher dots on you.

Needs more shuffle uptime.
Edited by Kickgruntler on 11/18/2012 7:33 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Monk
19140
Monk damage taken is less consistent. I find it leads to healers getting surprised when you stop dodging. ;p
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90 Pandaren Monk
15630
he took less spike dmg (checking the graph) .. required less healing .. and the healing taken is even less bursty than yours.

your healers are just QQing imo.

he did fine, his skills have a good uptime etc .. there's really nothing to complain. The Fort brew is relative since it's the monk's only "oh !@#$" button. There's several bosses that I don't even use it (since it's not in my rotation .. i really save it for "oh %^-* " moments).
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Tagging for later review. Everyone's touched on average uptime etc. so I'll look at specific oh !@#$ moments, like when precisely he's Guarding, at what point he does X Y or Z, etc.
Edited by Rijdot on 11/20/2012 11:15 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
0
Not that it's the cause of the issues here, but I just can't wrap my head around the gemming/enchanting/reforging. Gem into expertise but reforge out of it. Enchant into haste but reforge out of it.
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90 Night Elf Monk
8430
@ Kvaar - Could be to pick up extra haste; generally speaking, as a monk, we want haste on every single slot for the energy regen. Helps with up-time on skills. So you might reforge something with Haste + Mastery to Mastery > Expertise, then reforge the Expertise item for extra haste. Same amount of expertise, but it can help you dump mastery, which for a monk is about as useless a stat as you can get.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Tagging for later review. Everyone's touched on average uptime etc. so I'll look at specific oh !@#$ moments, like when precisely he's Guarding, at what point he does X Y or Z, etc.

edit:

Problem #1: Guarding improperly.

Your monk is using Guard immediately after taunting Feng. He doesn't have Feng for long - usually not long enough for Guard to come off cooldown - so he can't use it to save himself if he hits a dangerous moment.

This is huge. Guard is our primary un-squishiness spell. This is the ability that lets healers know that no, you will NOT dip into a dangerous zone. It has a very low cooldown.

Guard is not a pre-emptive heal. Guard is an oh !@#$ button. Conserve 2 chi, burn 1 chi on a PB if you hit deep Yellow or Red, and Guard if you dip below 40% or so to save yourself. Guard is only strong enough to absorb maybe 2 melee strikes, and burning it immediately as you taunt also ensures you don't have any Vengeance to fuel it.

He does this on Elegon, too. He's just not doin' it right. This also ensures he can't use it for Breaths or Annihilations.

Pulled this info from:

[18:47:03.403] Lenalee casts Provoke on Feng the Accursed
[18:47:03.626] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Provoke from Lenalee
[18:47:05.550] Lenalee's Provoke fades from Feng the Accursed
[18:47:05.796] Lenalee gains Guard from Lenalee (Remaining: 200606)
[18:47:09.226] Lenalee's Guard fades from Lenalee (Remaining: 0)

[18:47:20.292] Ðemolition casts Taunt on Feng the Accursed
[18:47:20.476] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Taunt from Ðemolition
[18:47:21.009] Ðemolition's Taunt fades from Feng the Accursed
--
[18:50:14.624] Lenalee gains Guard from Lenalee (Remaining: 118094)
[18:50:28.563] Lenalee casts Provoke on Feng the Accursed
[18:50:28.904] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Provoke from Lenalee
[18:50:31.819] Lenalee's Provoke fades from Feng the Accursed
[18:50:35.823] Lenalee's Guard fades from Lenalee (Remaining: 0)
[18:50:45.823] Lenalee gains Guard from Lenalee (Remaining: 248882)
[18:50:53.744] Lenalee's Guard fades from Lenalee (Remaining: 0)

[18:50:54.895] Ðemolition casts Taunt on Feng the Accursed
[18:50:54.895] Ðemolition Taunt Feng the Accursed Immune
[18:51:17.668] Ðemolition casts Taunt on Feng the Accursed
[18:51:17.846] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Taunt from Ðemolition
[18:51:19.127] Ðemolition's Taunt fades from Feng the Accursed
--
[18:53:57.098] Ðemolition casts Taunt on Feng the Accursed
[18:53:57.410] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Taunt from Ðemolition
[18:53:59.359] Ðemolition's Taunt fades from Feng the Accursed
[18:54:40.909] Lenalee casts Provoke on Feng the Accursed
[18:54:41.259] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Provoke from Lenalee
[18:54:43.189] Lenalee's Provoke fades from Feng the Accursed
[18:54:43.236] Lenalee gains Guard from Lenalee (Remaining: 193374)
[18:54:48.852] Lenalee's Guard fades from Lenalee (Remaining: 0)

[18:55:03.086] Ðemolition casts Taunt on Feng the Accursed
[18:55:03.086] Ðemolition Taunt Feng the Accursed Immune
[18:55:11.079] Ðemolition casts Taunt on Feng the Accursed
[18:55:11.418] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Taunt from Ðemolition
[18:55:13.363] Ðemolition's Taunt fades from Feng the Accursed
[18:55:44.874] Lenalee Provoke Feng the Accursed Immune
[18:55:44.874] Lenalee casts Provoke on Feng the Accursed
[18:55:51.676] Ðemolition casts Taunt on Feng the Accursed
[18:55:52.079] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Taunt from Ðemolition
[18:55:55.064] Ðemolition's Taunt fades from Feng the Accursed
[18:56:15.330] Lenalee casts Provoke on Feng the Accursed
[18:56:15.434] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Provoke from Lenalee
[18:56:15.965] Lenalee's Provoke fades from Feng the Accursed
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Possible problem #2: Elusive Brew useage

I actually can't see anything wrong with it. It looks like he's letting it stack to 15 before he taunts, uses it immediately as he taunts and burns it at about 6-7 stacks if he has the boss. Although there looks to be a mis-taunt early on and it kind of falls off?

Possible problem #3: Dampen Harm useage

Dampen Harm has a really, really low cooldown. It can be up almost every other tank swap. If the healers are complaining about him being squishy, he's either taking huge chunks of damage randomly or he's dipping into dangerous levels frequently. Going below 50%, Dampen your Harm sir.

Later on in the fight (likely final phases) he does the same thing with Dampen Harm as he does with Guard - he burns it immediately after taunting. We don't have a lot of oh !@#$ buttons but Dampen Harm is one of them. It's possible he spiked dangerously during the 3 seconds following that taunt, but that's not my first inclination.

He does fine with it on Elegon, though.

[19:46:04.327] Lenalee casts Provoke on Feng the Accursed
[19:46:04.730] Feng the Accursed afflicted by Provoke from Lenalee
[19:46:06.592] Lenalee gains Dampen Harm from Lenalee
[19:46:06.592] Lenalee casts Dampen Harm
[19:46:07.734] Lenalee's Provoke fades from Feng the Accursed
[19:46:08.740] Lenalee's Dampen Harm fades from Lenalee


Possible Problem #4: Gift of the Ox useage

Several minutes go by without it being touched or with it just being pinged for 1-2 orbs maybe. He needs to utilize it in oh %^-* moments better. Let it pile, strafe quickly if you need an emergency heal. Me, if I've got 2 piles and it's been a while since I last strafed, I'll do a quick hop to give my healers some breathing room if I'm about 50-60% or so, especially if I just danger-Guarded. Again, it's possible he didn't need it, but with healers complaining that's not my first inclination.

Hope this helps.
Edited by Rijdot on 11/20/2012 2:57 PM PST
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
I can't comment on his Expel Harm useage but he seems to be getting very little overheal from it, so that seems okay. When he does get overheal, it's entirely overheal, so my guess is he gets snipe healed.

I'd probably suggest saving Expel Harm for when he's a bit lower, probably 50-60%, but I tend to advocate a "make sure you never actually die" playstyle. Expel Harm, Dampen Harm, Fortifying Brew, Guard, Gift of the Ox, healing talents - I tend to save all of those for emergencies. We don't have a lot of given tools, so I prefer lifesaving over thoroughput in many cases.
Edited by Rijdot on 11/20/2012 12:59 PM PST
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86 Undead Death Knight
10495
11/20/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Lightning
@ Kvaar - Could be to pick up extra haste; generally speaking, as a monk, we want haste on every single slot for the energy regen. Helps with up-time on skills. So you might reforge something with Haste + Mastery to Mastery > Expertise, then reforge the Expertise item for extra haste. Same amount of expertise, but it can help you dump mastery, which for a monk is about as useless a stat as you can get.


Mastery is a ridiculously strong stat for monks, it just won't be recognized as such until the late 2nd or early 3rd raid tier when you can stack enough for people to realize how broken it is.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
11/20/2012 01:23 PMPosted by Descretoria
Mastery is a ridiculously strong stat for monks, it just won't be recognized as such until the late 2nd or early 3rd raid tier when you can stack enough for people to realize how broken it is.


You're misspeaking. Mastery isn't a ridiculously strong stat for monks, our mastery has a ridiculously strong passive effect; that's not the same thing.

That said, this is entirely possible, honestly. Of course, by then having 100% Elusive Brew uptime may be just as possible as well as having enough haste to purify every melee hit you take, and having a permanent +30% avoidance and eliminating stagger as a mechanic will kick an additional ~8% damage reduction to the curb.

Of course if we hit energy caps and Elusive Brew caps mastery will suddenly become our be-all-end-all but I don't see that happening this expansion. Could be wrong.
Edited by Rijdot on 11/20/2012 1:30 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
15630
Huh .. I could swear you were only talking about will, demo o.O
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86 Undead Death Knight
10495
11/20/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Rijdot
You're misspeaking


I'm not misspeaking at all. In fact, double checking my research to ensure that I wasn't misspeaking, I stumbled across yet another hilarious hack keeping Stagger working that could be exploited beyond belief in later tiers.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
11/21/2012 11:12 AMPosted by Descretoria
You're misspeaking


I'm not misspeaking at all. In fact, double checking my research to ensure that I wasn't misspeaking, I stumbled across yet another hilarious hack keeping Stagger working that could be exploited beyond belief in later tiers.


Could you cite your sources? I'd be interested in seeing some new info I haven't seen yet.

11/21/2012 09:49 AMPosted by Leeflow
Huh .. I could swear you were only talking about will, demo o.O


He referenced it but if that was all he was talking about I missed it too. I interpreted it in a general sense.
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99 Pandaren Warrior
16285
11/21/2012 09:49 AMPosted by Leeflow
Huh .. I could swear you were only talking about will, demo o.O

He referenced it but if that was all he was talking about I missed it too. I interpreted it in a general sense.


I was just saying thats what I used as a direct comparison to Eflow, because for most other bosses a discrepancy in uptime or damage taken could be explained by who went first/last and had more time with the boss or who tanked 2 dogs, etc

Feng/Guards Are the ones where I'm hearing he's harder to heal/dies.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ipc2k4hpqw367dpv/

There we're some feng pulls where he just straight up dropped from 100-dead and I'm not sure why.
Edited by Ðemolition on 11/22/2012 12:39 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
I'm not really going to look to closely at stone guard, because if you compare average Survivability... Lenalee is sitting at 92% with you at 87%. Simply put, Lenalee isn't dying before you are as often as you are dying before her---I'm sure some data can be found here, but Feng was very educational.

So I'm looking at the three Feng deaths when Lenalee died at 85, 87, and 52. (first attempt, third attempt, fourth attempt)

First attempt, Lenalee Averted Harm, and that caused her to take a huge spike of damage. Further, she didn't pop any other cooldown at the time--that's going to the problem there. And again, across all the fights, she isn't using Dampen Harm or Fortifying Brew at all. Only once each across ALL attempts. She's simply not using her strong cooldowns, and that's part of the problem.

The third attempt, however, is a little tricky so you have to know what to look for. She took MASSIVE hits of damage, and it looks like the healers were trying? What's the problem?

[19:58:18.130] Feng the Accursed hits Lenalee 128254 (A: 50225)
[19:58:18.130] Feng the Accursed hits Lenalee 30334 (A: 11878)
[19:58:20.991] Feng the Accursed hits Lenalee 126343 (A: 49476)
[19:58:20.991] Feng the Accursed hits Lenalee 23145 (A: 9063)
[19:58:22.125] Feng the Accursed Shadowburn Lenalee 121677 (A: 5258)
[19:58:22.986] Feng the Accursed hits Lenalee 27225 (A: 10661)
[19:58:24.994] Feng the Accursed hits Lenalee 97739 (A: 38274)
[19:58:24.994] Feng the Accursed hits Lenalee 27755 (A: 10869)

But what is she doing during that 12 second period of time?

Well, she's Chi Waving. She's keg smashing. She's spinning crane kicking.

But not a blackout kick to be seen. And if you look at the absorbed damage, not a single one of those were even close to 44% of the incoming damage.

She ignored her Shuffle, and she died for it.

The fourth death... honestly I think that's the healer's fault. They seem to have been caught with their pants down with a tank swap. Only the paladin seems to have reacted to the change in damage (he actually put an eternal flame on her... tho not much else) but the extent of the other two healers' contribution are efflorescence ticks, wild growth ticks, and earth shield ticks. The other two healers needed to get more on the ball with the tank swaps.

So to wrap up:

1) She needs to hit her strong cooldowns. 2 uses across 7 attempts is unacceptable.
2) She needs to prioritize Shuffle higher. One death was caused directly by its neglect, but her shuffle uptime across seven Feng attempts is 64.3%. That's -awful- for a boss with no real downtime. There's NO reason why this should fall off. It should be stacked when she isn't tanking, and maintained when she is tanking.
3) The healers need to be on the ball during tank swaps.
Edited by Kickgruntler on 11/22/2012 9:00 AM PST
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