question on tanks hit and expertise

85 Blood Elf Priest
1915
How important is a tanks hit and expertise in MoP raiding? Are there some tank classes who value hit and expertise more than others? Is reaching the caps necessary or do they just need to get close? If just close, how close to the caps? Appreciate any advice, thanks.
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100 Human Paladin
13675
Very important for active mitigation!

Some tanks value it a little more (ie: paladins hardcap expertise). But in general, all tanks want 7.5% of hit and 7.5% of expertise.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
14920
11/15/2012 07:48 PMPosted by Turillian
How important is a tanks hit and expertise in MoP raiding?


It's pretty important. Missing with attacks gives fewer resources for active mitigation.

Are there some tank classes who value hit and expertise more than others? Is reaching the caps necessary or do they just need to get close?


Yes. A DK's Death Strike can't be parried, and their Rune Strike can't be dodged or parried. That means they benefit less from expertise.

There's a middle ground with warriors and druids, who can get a comfortable amount of rage gen without capping their accuracy stats.

At the other end, you'll find monks and paladins, who prioritize accuracy above other stats.
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29 Pandaren Monk
4045
for druids it's pretty important. mandatory for raiding imo. i shot for hit cap and soft expertise cap -> crit. If you're off a little or a bit under then you'll be fine (it's not a huge deal breaker), but's it's still pretty vital for holding aggro and generating rage so you can't neglect it. If you do, things will peel off and sometimes that can mean a wipe in of itself and your health will suffer.

i assume it's the same for warriors.
Edited by Cudds on 11/15/2012 10:25 PM PST
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1 Draenei Paladin
0
11/15/2012 10:20 PMPosted by Cudds
soft expertise cap


Explain this concept please.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
11/15/2012 11:02 PMPosted by Mnemonic
soft expertise cap


For tanks, this does not exist.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
11/15/2012 11:27 PMPosted by Rijdot
For tanks, this does not exist.

Sure it does, just depends on the tank. It matters a great deal to DKs, and it kind of sort of matters a small amount to anyone who uses ranged attacks/spells which can't be parried/reach full hit before parry-capping expertise.

(and saying it's a meaningful value to shoot for as a druid is dumb. I agree on that point.)
Edited by Ahanss on 11/15/2012 11:58 PM PST
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1 Draenei Paladin
0
A parry soft cap exists for blood death knights. No other class has an attack that can be dodged but not parried.
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100 Human Paladin
13675
11/16/2012 12:20 AMPosted by Mnemonic
A parry soft cap exists for blood death knights. No other class has an attack that can be dodged but not parried.


What about capping spell hit? 7.5% expertise combined with 7.5% hit gives you 15% spellhit, which is the spellhit cap. This matters for Consecration and Holy Wrath I believe.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
11/16/2012 01:04 AMPosted by Dekkar
A parry soft cap exists for blood death knights. No other class has an attack that can be dodged but not parried.


What about capping spell hit? 7.5% expertise combined with 7.5% hit gives you 15% spellhit, which is the spellhit cap. This matters for Consecration and Holy Wrath I believe.


I think judgment is also non-parryable, for a more meaningful 'can't be parried' thing.
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100 Human Warlock
18010
11/16/2012 01:04 AMPosted by Dekkar
What about capping spell hit? 7.5% expertise combined with 7.5% hit gives you 15% spellhit, which is the spellhit cap. This matters for Consecration and Holy Wrath I believe.

Isn't that kind of irrelevant, seeing as Paladins go for max expertise anyways? The other tanks in question don't have spell hit mechanics.
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85 Human Paladin
7460
11/16/2012 04:39 AMPosted by Serinicas
Isn't that kind of irrelevant, seeing as Paladins go for max expertise anyways? The other tanks in question don't have spell hit mechanics.


My DK's spell hit changes when I swap out a piece of gear with hit or expertise and I've missed with outbreak before getting to the hit and soft expertise cap.

PITA having to use runes that could have been spent on a DS for diseases.
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100 Human Warlock
18010
11/16/2012 05:55 AMPosted by Fangthane
My DK's spell hit changes when I swap out a piece of gear with hit or expertise and I've missed with outbreak before getting to the hit and soft expertise cap.

Yeah, that coincides with capping DS though; I phrased it poorly.

The existence of spell hit cap at 7.5% expertise doesn't actually change anyone's gearing priority at all; Paladins go to 15% regardless, and DKs would go to 7.5% even if Outbreak never missed. Warriors, Druids, and Monks don't care about spell hit cap at all, do they?

Although even if Monks do have spell hit-affected spells, they'd be in the same group as Paladins in that they want to cap regardless.
Edited by Serinicas on 11/16/2012 6:25 AM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
10860
For paladins and monks hit cap and expertise hard cap are pretty much a necessity. Missing a chi/HoPo generator can be pretty devistating for both because of the way their active mitigations work.

Warriors can gear for hit/exp caps or they can go straight avoidance/mastery because of the way revenge/crit blocks work. Hit/exp should net smoother rage gen than avoidance/mastery though.

Druids can gear for hit/exp or crit/haste because of the way mangle/auto attacks generate rage on hit/crit. Hit/exp should net smoother rage gen than crit/haste.

Dk's can gear for hit/exp (soft cap) or avoidance/mastery. Because of the way death strike is used scent of blood procs aren't banked and death strike being immune to parries and rune strike being immune to block/dodge/parry, expertise hard cap is not necessary. I haven't tested this myself so I can't say which is true but death strike may or may not heal if it doesn't connect (some say it does some say it doesn't). If it does heal without doing damage this devalues hit/exp alot. Getting hit capped/exp soft capped does make sure that outbreak goes up.
11/16/2012 06:21 AMPosted by Serinicas
Warriors, Druids, and Monks don't care about spell hit cap at all, do they?

Druids and faerie fire.
Edited by Darkspectrum on 11/16/2012 9:15 AM PST
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90 Worgen Death Knight
8175
Deathstrike always heals you regardless of whether it hits or not, so hit/exp is not that important for Dk.

You should have some but you don't need to prioritize it like a Paladin or Warrior would, because they need to connect with their target for their active mitigation to work.
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29 Pandaren Monk
4045
maybe I explained it incorrectly. what i'm trying to say is shoot as close as possible to 7.5% hit and expertise because it matters in raids. for druids, warriors, pallys it seems?

You can tell the difference on the dummies @ the shrine, it may not technically a "soft cap" but you can tell if you're going to reliably generate aggro/rage to some degree while choosing another vital tanking stat when it's at a comfortable level.
Edited by Cudds on 11/16/2012 10:18 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
7460
I like being 7.5% hit and expertise on my DK because Outbreak is completely reliable and I don't have to use icy touch or plague strike to set diseases on the initial mob.

That's another DS I have. Compared to if it missed.

Also Scent of Blood procs on normal melee hits.

Your successful main-hand autoattacks have a chance to increase the healing and minimum healing done by your next Death Strike within 20 sec by 20%, and to generate 10 Runic Power. This effect stacks up to 5 times.


A chance of extra runic power and increased healing may not be that much.

However, when SoB is combined with the extra damage output from getting to cap and being able to put out a bit more Rune Strikes to keep Blood Tap ready, I like having hit and exp. at 7.5% on my DK
Edited by Fangthane on 11/16/2012 12:02 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
5475
11/16/2012 12:20 AMPosted by Mnemonic
A parry soft cap exists for blood death knights. No other class has an attack that can be dodged but not parried.


Avenger Shield has a 15% spell hit cap, so 7.5% hit + 7.5% exp is a soft cap for us. I was at that for the interrupt (Challenge Mode thing) until the last couple upgrades made it so easy to get exp hard capped.

Going from 7.5% exp to 15% made me take and do more damage. I'd rather have the extra avoidance back tbh. I'm not getting any important SotR timing that I wasn't before.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
11/17/2012 04:35 AMPosted by Slalin
Avenger Shield has a 15% spell hit cap, so 7.5% hit + 7.5% exp is a soft cap for us. I was at that for the interrupt (Challenge Mode thing) until the last couple upgrades made it so easy to get exp hard capped.

Are you sure about that? As far as I know it's always been considered a ranged attack, like a hunter shot, and I've had it miss quite a bit in heroics back in Cataclysm when we were spell hit capped passively (but not capped for melee/ranged attacks because who capped hit?). I don't see why they would suddenly change it to a spell in MoP.
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