Blade lord Ta'yak as boomkin

90 Worgen Druid
6550
I hate it so much. This kind of fight design just destroys your rotation, and it demenstrates how clunky and poorly designed the eclipse system can be.

It's bad enough that the tornadoes can make you lose a cast while natures grace is up and that while chasing the boss as the tank moves him you can do little more than moonfire/sunfire spam (also losing time on natures grace without being able to move your eclipse bar unless you gain starsurge procs), but the biggest issue is unseen strike. The boss dissappears for ~7 seconds in which time your moonfire/sunfire are falling off and you are losing time on natures grace from a recently reached eclipse.

I'm not sure if I should be more frustrated with the way they designed the fight or with the poorly designed boomkin mechanics. I barely managed 45k dps (I'm normally 60k+) on our kill. The only redeeming factor was that I did ~18k hps by spending time during unseen strike throwing out rejuvs, using NV, rejuving during phase 2 while dodging tornadoes, and tranqing after reaching the end of the hall on phase 2.

It definately seems like a melee dps fight but it's just so much worse as boomkin with the way they force our rotation down our throats. You have to be able to move that eclipse bar around quickly to take advantage of natures grace and having your DoTs fall off before you can reach the next eclipse is just really bad. Other range don't have it as bad because they aren't leashed to a mechanic that forces them to take advantage of every cast possible in 15 second natures graced eclipse window (they can also reapply thier dots as they please without the burden of not having natures grace AND not being eclipsed)

Single target and 2 - 3 multidotting is the only thing boomkin has going for it but manditory down time ruins the forced rotation and makes dps tank in all situations. I can't imagine trying to down this boss on heroic with boomkin and I feel like I'd do 10k more dps as feral or another range not cemented to eclipse mechanics. If they are going to make fights like this I wish they would just redesign boomkin (I actually miss the old system from wrath with the ways the new one lets me down)
Edited by Stratis on 11/16/2012 1:37 PM PST
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11/16/2012 01:33 PMPosted by Stratis
I can't imagine trying to down this boss on heroic with boomkin


It's annoying, but doable. Strat ends up being more of a stand the boss in one place and place tornados everywhere else but 2-3 specific areas. The most annoying part is having to move because other ranged walk into you and then decide it's time to tunnel.

The first unseen strike always makes me mad because I go to refresh DoTs with 2s left on CA and he goes invis and then I'm upset.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
It's annoying, but doable.


We're moving the boss 3 - 4 times before phase 2 and I do get mad at other range that run over next to me and then refuse to move (I end up having to move even though they are much more 'mobile'). The rotation interrupts are ridiculous and I only see boomkin as a liability when it comes to downing the boss before the enrage timer.

I only feel better knowing I was a decent contribtuion to healing with all the rejuvs I threw out and my tranq in P2. Only good move blizz did with boomkin was making it easy to rejuv spam off-heal since it's hard for us to OOM.

Edit: Give me your weapon!!! I feel so undergeared :(
Edited by Stratis on 11/16/2012 2:02 PM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
12170
All I have to say is thanks for making this post -- should help me out when I start the encounter. :3

Certainly sucks about all the movement ... I thought that the 1st boss was a lot of movement. :(
Edited by Shikoku on 11/16/2012 2:39 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
11620
All I have to say is thanks for making this post -- should help me out when I start the encounter. :3

Certainly sucks about all the movement ... I thought that the 1st boss was a lot of movement. :(

For normal mode Vizor, you can easily strafe the Attenuation; just find that sweet spot before the split.

For Blade Lord, you will be able to your your CDs three times (00:10; 03:30; 06:50) ish; assume Solar Eclipse when Incarnation is up. (only got two on my end :( ) You are fairly mobile as a Boomkin, it's when and how you move that makes it seem doable, or outright terrible. Refreshing DOTs is the best time to start moving; you don't divert from the main rotation and you're moving to a better spot.
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11/16/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Stratis
Edit: Give me your weapon!!! I feel so undergeared :(


Just my weapon and nothing else? xP

If you need to, tell them just how much you lose by moving compared to most other ranged. Maybe they'll stop being selfish. I ranted at my fellow ranged at the end of the night because they would keep tunneling and I was mad at them.
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90 Tauren Druid
8710
To be fair, MSV = godsend for ranged/casters.

Probably not too bad to throw a couple fights in that are tuned more so towards melee.
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90 Troll Druid
8440
Tony makes a very good point, all us ranged got to have ranged friendly fights in MSV, now blizz is evening it out by making HoF more melee friendly. That said, The first two bosses in HoF I find really aren't that bad. However, Garalon Ive been having a big issue with as far as my dps. A big part of that I believe is because my group has me taking pheromones, but there's probably also some other rotational issue too.
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90 Troll Druid
11620
11/17/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Icanhasprowl
Tony makes a very good point, all us ranged got to have ranged friendly fights in MSV, now blizz is evening it out by making HoF more melee friendly. That said, The first two bosses in HoF I find really aren't that bad. However, Garalon Ive been having a big issue with as far as my dps. A big part of that I believe is because my group has me taking pheromones, but there's probably also some other rotational issue too.

I take pheromones as well. I'm able to heal myself, or I can spam MF/SnF for the duration. (You need like 9-10 kiters on 25man....so....yeah...). While you're not kiting, just nuke the body and DOT non-melee'able legs, and only jump into the Leg Circle if it's 10 yards away.
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90 Troll Druid
8440
Yeah, I usually have to end up healing myself when I do pheromones. Likewise, I try to keep up MF n SF on legs in range.
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90 Worgen Druid
9570
This fight is definitely not great for boomkin. Some tips:
1. Always symbiosis a warrior. You get intervene, they get a stampeding roar to use during the tornado phase.

2. Make a macro targeting a melee that is a good player that will cast intervene so that you can instantly stack for the unseen strikes.

3. Talent into wild charge so you can instantly bound backwards after the unseen strike. It is also amazing for going kitty in phase 2 and charging the last 25 yards to the boss through tornados

4 before your tanks start moving the boss you need to start moving to get ready. Save your ss procs,, your starfall and any other insta casts for movement. You can also use movement to innervate healers, buff rezzed people and as a last resort place mushrooms
5 i generally don't worry too much about dps because i take hotw and pretty much heal the entire last phase though i know that will change as our team gets better

Good luck,

Pp
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
1. No warrior, warlock, or rogue in my 10-man which is a bummer because they have the best symbiosis abilities.

2. No warrior

3. Personal preference in my opinion. I can see why wild charge would be very useful though.

4. Of course. These are things all boomkins know to do.

5. I spam rejuvs during phase 2 and use a tranq at the end of the hall but the rest of the healing is on our healers and I'm not going to spec into hotw just for that.

Don't need luck, the boss has been dead since I made this thread. I DO need better gear because it's kind of embarrassing pushing through HoF with 478 boomkin and 474 resto gear. My fellow raiders are in the low 480's. We seem to be behind on gear.
Edited by Stratis on 11/17/2012 7:51 PM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
9570

5. I spam rejuvs during phase 2 and use a tranq at the end of the hall but the rest of the healing is on our healers and I'm not going to spec into hotw just for that.

Don't need luck, the boss has been dead since I made this thread. I DO need better gear because it's kind of embarrassing pushing through HoF with 478 boomkin and 474 resto gear. My fellow raiders are in the low 480's. We seem to be behind on gear.


I raid 25m and you raid 10m (though i did kill Blade Lord on 10m last week) so there will be some difference in what I am going to lay out here but I think it is true directionally. It seems you have very competent healers and dps which is great, I would love to check out your logs if you could link them here. If you don't have to heal during phase 2 that is wonderful and allows you to maximize your dps. I would love to be in that position but right now my goal is to make sure that our team downs bosses so for that fight I go HotW and make sure ppl live to see the end.

During our kill today (our first of Blade Lord fyi) I did 62K during phase 1 (I am at 488 ilvl equipped btw don't look at my armory i seem to have left my Stormwind cloak on lol). That put me at #7 in our raid at that point.

For the last 20% (tornados, etc...) I popped Heart of the Wild and just healed my rear off. I did 8.25 mil healing and was 3rd on total healing for the entire last phase (lasted 2 min 44s). Since this was our first kill on 25m it was very sloppy, lots of ppl died near the end and pretty sure we hit the enrage timer.

I just lay it out here to show how powerful (and raid saving) Heart of the Wild can be - being 100% healer for 45s of that last phase definitely got us the kill today (and oh ya it was on our "last attempt"!)

-PP
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90 Worgen Druid
7905

5. I spam rejuvs during phase 2 and use a tranq at the end of the hall but the rest of the healing is on our healers and I'm not going to spec into hotw just for that.

Don't need luck, the boss has been dead since I made this thread. I DO need better gear because it's kind of embarrassing pushing through HoF with 478 boomkin and 474 resto gear. My fellow raiders are in the low 480's. We seem to be behind on gear.


I raid 25m and you raid 10m (though i did kill Blade Lord on 10m last week) so there will be some difference in what I am going to lay out here but I think it is true directionally. It seems you have very competent healers and dps which is great, I would love to check out your logs if you could link them here. If you don't have to heal during phase 2 that is wonderful and allows you to maximize your dps. I would love to be in that position but right now my goal is to make sure that our team downs bosses so for that fight I go HotW and make sure ppl live to see the end.

During our kill today (our first of Blade Lord fyi) I did 62K during phase 1 (I am at 488 ilvl equipped btw don't look at my armory i seem to have left my Stormwind cloak on lol). That put me at #7 in our raid at that point.

For the last 20% (tornados, etc...) I popped Heart of the Wild and just healed my rear off. I did 8.25 mil healing and was 3rd on total healing for the entire last phase (lasted 2 min 44s). Since this was our first kill on 25m it was very sloppy, lots of ppl died near the end and pretty sure we hit the enrage timer.

I just lay it out here to show how powerful (and raid saving) Heart of the Wild can be - being 100% healer for 45s of that last phase definitely got us the kill today (and oh ya it was on our "last attempt"!)

-PP


So you DO post on the forums after all! Sly PP.

Also : don't be taking all the fame with your HOTW healing! I was also top healer on the attempts we hit the enrage and always one of the last to live but since we looked like we were going to kill it that attempt , being me and all I died in order for the boss to die!

THE CURSE CONTINUES.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
Our end dps for the kill seemed miserably low. Fire mage was top at only 58k we had 3 others at 52k while me and the Spriest only managed a terrible 46k. I'm not used to pulling such low dps but my rotation was broken often and the movement seemed overboard. I'm not sure where the dps was in phase 1 but I was probably ~52k AT BEST. Our gear is a bit of an issue and I think we were moving the boss more than was neccessary. I did spike as high as 180k dps in the beginning which is fun...I accidently ripped threat from the tank once so I had to be more careful from there with how I opened and we delayed hero a little (we hero in the beginning and unload).

I think you misunderstood what I was talking about with healing on phase 2. While we ran down the hall and dodged tornadoes I rolled rejuv on people and once we got to the end I would tranq if we needed it or save it for the other push. Since I'm in 10-man it's not that hard for me to get rejuv rolled on everyone while running around the tornadoes and it gives a very nice buffer so that healers can not freak out. This means I can't go kitty to dash but whatever, I still stampede and dark flight. I didn't bother to continue healing at the end of the hall unless one of our healers died; I threw some clunky boomkin spells at the boss until the next hall way run. As a boomkin I realize that trying to maximize my dps on this kind of fight is a futile effort and do try to assist the healers when possible.

I was always 3rd under our 2 healers and did ~18k HPS with 6.7 million healing on the kill (I got 8 million on a close wipe when our healer died and I had to heal assist like crazy). I believe my healing was 65 - 70% rejuvs and the rest was between tranq and natures virgil. We only beat the enrage by a few seconds and I think it had a lot to do with our lacking dps.

Our priest was running logs for it. I believe we need to work on moving the boss less. This should be the kill log.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/51037hr3i132djhz/sum/damageDone/?s=8274&e=8751
Edited by Stratis on 11/18/2012 1:05 AM PST
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90 Troll Druid
11445
One thing that we did was leave right before the boss was going to transition into P2.5(when he swaps the hallway). We just threw up DoTs and left 1 healer, the tanks, and a dps to transition while we were already waiting on the other side of the room. It seemed to increase our dps by a lot.

Also, I didn't think this guy was even close to as bad as garalon is for us.
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90 Worgen Druid
9570
One thing that we did was leave right before the boss was going to transition into P2.5(when he swaps the hallway). We just threw up DoTs and left 1 healer, the tanks, and a dps to transition while we were already waiting on the other side of the room. It seemed to increase our dps by a lot.

Also, I didn't think this guy was even close to as bad as garalon is for us.


Tagartou: That is a great idea - this way it limits the running for the 2nd tornado alley. We are doing Garalon tomorrow so its nice that we have that to look forward to :(

Strathis - Looking at your log, right before p2 you were at 50,700 DPS(e), not bad but you can prolly up that a bit with better boss movement. That put u at #3 on dps behind your mage (pradgasm 57K) and shammy (53K). When I did 10m last week we didnt feel the need to move the boss all the way to the ends of the corridors, in fact I think after tanking him in one of the center corridors we just kept him in the center and dodged tornados. There werent enough tornados to really justify moving him around iirc. Like a previous poster said, they goal of that fight is to keep the boss in one place as long as possible.

Your healing for that last phase was a little over 4 mil and your DPS(e) during that last phase was 28K (5th with 3.65 mil total dmg). I personally believe that HotW would let you almost double your healing during that phase which is hugely powerful when you understand that almost all of the extra healing is going to come during the 45s window of HotW. So you can pop HotW, rejuv spam on your way up the alley, when you get there hit a 7s super-tranq (mine heals for over 200K HPS). If you time it right you can then just go full-on dps from that point on. All you lose is the 20% Nature's Vigil buff during that last phase.

If you don't need that extra healing though, just keep Nature's Vigil - more dps is never a bad thing.

Edit - I went back to look at some of your other logs - what I was wondering was how much your dps was affected by the Blade Lord fight movement. All I could find for "End Game" though was an MSV (Stone Guard to Garajal) and HoF (the one you linked) but you healed for all of the fights pretty much :( I'd be curious to see how much of a dps hit you took on Blade Lord phase 1.

FYI - my numbers look something like this:
25m normal Feng (this week): 75.4K DPS (as an example of a fight without too much movement)
25m normal Blade Lord (Phase 1 only): 61.9K DPS (when adjusting for the HotW talent swap - I had roughly a 15% dps loss by the extra movement on Blade Lord phase 1)

Other ranged dps are in the same ballpark - our warlock saw a 16% dps loss on Blade Lord, our spriest saw a 30% decrease (though that could have been some learning curve issue). Even melee dps had pretty large discrepancies - our ret pally saw a 22% decrease, our rogues 12%, DKs 14% so it seems that the mechanics really impact everyone.

-PP
Edited by Pippilongear on 11/18/2012 1:45 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
11620
11/18/2012 10:17 AMPosted by Tagartou
One thing that we did was leave right before the boss was going to transition into P2.5(when he swaps the hallway). We just threw up DoTs and left 1 healer, the tanks, and a dps to transition while we were already waiting on the other side of the room. It seemed to increase our dps by a lot.


Yup, that's the Heroic strat!
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
11/18/2012 10:17 AMPosted by Tagartou
Also, I didn't think this guy was even close to as bad as garalon is for us.


Garalon was painful, but now the big bug is dead dead dead (though -- and I'm a bit embarrassed to say this -- H Stone Guard has so far been our worst fight. Though they're dead now, too).

Intervene and Wild Charge really are incredible on blade lord, though. I'm still last on DPS, but the gap is much better, with there being only a 2k DPS gap between the highest and lowest range, and a 4k gap between highest and lowest overall, in our last kill. And that was when I only took intervene and not WC (been playing with things. Week 1 was WC only. Week 2 = intervene only. Week 3 will be both.) The difference between WC only and Intervene only was over 11k for me, though that includes 1 or 2 gear upgrades (minor ones).
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