Feedback on the totem changes

90 Orc Shaman
8545
Let me start off by saying that I for a long time have felt that shamans needed to be toned down somewhat in pvp.

Meanwhile, this totem change is a change in the wrong direction and here is my personal opinion on why:

1. This is a nerf to survivability and not to healing(major problem here). Mastery and unleash elements was enough to bring someone from 1% to 100% in a small heal. A simple fix to this would to either nerf mastery or make it so that totems like healing stream/tide didn't scale with mastery.

2. Shaman survivability is by far the worst of any healer in the game. Getting opened on by the opposing team means that there is a high chance of me dieing in deeps/stuns which there is an abundance of now. What do shamans have? Nothing to get out of these stuns, I would have to trinket if I want to live thus resulting in me dieing on the next stun.

Druids - They have barskin and ironbark on 2 different cds and can easily cycle through them. They can displacer beast away and stop/switch the momentum instantly.

Paladins - Devo Aura/Bubble/Plethora of instant casts/Blind/Hoj

Priests - Although priests arent really playable in the current state of the game I feel like they have good defensive abilities such as pain supp/spectral guise/fear.

Shamans - Astral shift? stone bulwark that can be spellstolen? Really on a health increase during a stun? We really have nothing when we're being stunned.

My idea for a change: Nerf mastery/scaling with unleash and healing stream/tide. Make it to where if you get locked out on heals that you cannot drop a totem but if we are just blanket silenced we can still use them.

More suggestions: Make astral shift usable while stunned and put it on a 1 min cooldown.

Feel free to contribute to this thread in whatever way you want, I would like to have a discussion on it without being too biased.

Once again, I do agree that a change is in order but this is the wrong way to go about it.
Edited by Jutsu on 11/16/2012 9:00 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
2760
World of Magecraft
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90 Draenei Shaman
9355
I support this thread
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90 Orc Mage
11525
While I do agree with what you are trying to convey, I do want to point out there is a bit of a logical fallacy here. Some things on your list I disagree with on the matter of ordering like that for one class and not the other (including aura mastery and not spirit walkers) and pally CC but not Shaman CC, if you want a Blue to take it seriously might wanna take that)

I dont believe that shaman survivablity is that terrible overall (just kitty cleaves + warrior) whereas other healers such as pallies suffer against mages and such.

However, you are correct, that healing is the need for nerf, shamans are in too good of a spot in arena, I think every healer in the tournament today besides that one RMP comp is shaman healers because they are the dominant healer.

This change need amd to be reverted and replaced.

This change will be death within stun blanket silence or stuff like that, other classes do manage to have something against SILENCE (except Monks and Priest but they have anti stun) but other than that I agree
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90 Troll Shaman
4355
While I do agree with what you are trying to convey, I do want to point out there is a bit of a logical fallacy here. Some things on your list I disagree with on the matter of ordering like that for one class and not the other (including aura mastery and not spirit walkers) and pally CC but not Shaman CC, if you want a Blue to take it seriously might wanna take that)

I dont believe that shaman survivablity is that terrible overall (just kitty cleaves + warrior) whereas other healers such as pallies suffer against mages and such.

However, you are correct, that healing is the need for nerf, shamans are in too good of a spot in arena, I think every healer in the tournament today besides that one RMP comp is shaman healers because they are the dominant healer.

This change need amd to be reverted and replaced.

This change will be death within stun blanket silence or stuff like that, other classes do manage to have something against SILENCE (except Monks and Priest but they have anti stun) but other than that I agree


Holy Paladins are the dominant healer with Resto Shamans right behind them. But the powerful tools come in the form of healing while silenced, maybe Spirit Link and HTT/HST is where should be nerfed, not ALL totems always.

The 3 specs of Shaman are Resto, Resto and Resto. DPS Shamans don't exist.

Sorry. /baffled frustration
Edited by Zamzikhan on 11/16/2012 9:51 PM PST
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The shaman class also has two other speccs besides resto... i think people(and the devs) tend to forget that a lot.
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90 Orc Mage
11525
While I do agree with what you are trying to convey, I do want to point out there is a bit of a logical fallacy here. Some things on your list I disagree with on the matter of ordering like that for one class and not the other (including aura mastery and not spirit walkers) and pally CC but not Shaman CC, if you want a Blue to take it seriously might wanna take that)

I dont believe that shaman survivablity is that terrible overall (just kitty cleaves + warrior) whereas other healers such as pallies suffer against mages and such.

However, you are correct, that healing is the need for nerf, shamans are in too good of a spot in arena, I think every healer in the tournament today besides that one RMP comp is shaman healers because they are the dominant healer.

This change need amd to be reverted and replaced.

This change will be death within stun blanket silence or stuff like that, other classes do manage to have something against SILENCE (except Monks and Priest but they have anti stun) but other than that I agree


Holy Paladins are the dominant healer with Resto Shamans right behind them. But the powerful tools come in the form of healing while silenced, maybe Spirit Link and HTT/HST is where should be nerfed, not ALL totems always.

The 3 specs of Shaman are Resto, Resto and Resto. DPS Shamans don't exist.

Sorry. /baffled frustration


Please. Not to insult. But thats not true. Resto Shamans are the dominate healers, look at the leaderboards.

And enhance is a r1 viable spec, Enhance is great damage brings good stuff to the table

Pallies are to susceptable to CC to be the top healer
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at the very top you will very rarely see anything other then resto shamans, this is going to change. Sure Druids and Pallys are good at a few things ... druids have a few amazing abilitys and paladins have some amazing utility, but shamans are overall SO MUCH stronger.

and saying shamans are the easiest class to kill is questionable. I know you are my friend but ...... i would rather vs ANYTHING other then a shaman ANY DAY.
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90 Troll Shaman
9685
I support this thread, resto shamans defensive ability against stuns/silences are just too low.
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Maybe make shamanistic rage baseline, and give ele/enh something extra in the case of defensive cooldowns (SR with glyph is really nice)
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90 Orc Shaman
14210
11/16/2012 09:01 PMPosted by Pradafiend
I support this thread


typical stupid change by blizz that doesn't address the problems and giving unintended nerfs to the rest of the specs

GC's ignorant twitter response to this is all you need to know about the incompetence of the development team when it comes to pvp.
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90 Troll Shaman
14215
11/17/2012 02:55 PMPosted by Stormspellz
GC's ignorant twitter response to this is all you need to know about the incompetence of the development team when it comes to pvp.


yeah i mean who silences a spec where half its damage is based off spells and its only self mitigation is casted heals :P. ohh, wait
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90 Pandaren Shaman
5385
11/16/2012 09:01 PMPosted by Pradafiend
I support this thread
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90 Human Priest
13665
Just FYI, none of said priest abilities are usable when silenced either. Can't speak for druids, but the only thing a silenced paladin can do is bubble, and nothing when interrupted.

I'd certainly agree that other changes would probably be needed to not make this too harsh (eg I agree with your astral shift suggestion - that'd be reasonable) given the current state of the game, but this really needs fixing. At the very least interrupts should stop totems - blanket silences I'm less sure of.

And yeah, the mastery/healing output is definitely a huge problem, at least with all the % healing increases you can stack.
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90 Human Priest
13665
11/17/2012 11:04 PMPosted by Jurshrin
a totem to a shaman is like a melee attack from a warrior.. we are not casting a spell.. its a physical action of placeing a totem on the ground... so no silence shouldn't stop me from placing my totem anymore then puting a gag in someones mouth stoping them from punching you lol


This is pointless lore lawyering that isn't going to change anyone's mind either way (and certainly not blizzards!). It's a fantasy game - whether stuff 'makes sense' is pretty arbitrary - you've got people running round turning into demons and surviving getting stomped on by something 50x their size for 20 minutes because they're using a shield... uh, ok. Whether a totem is a spell or not simply depends on the game's rules, not whether it's "logical" or not (and it's certainly arguable that they are a spell!).

After all, if you're just putting a totem on the ground, what makes it go off then and not in your pack? Could silence block that? See how ridiculous that gets? What matters are the balance implications, not this sort of silliness.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
7565
Supported +1
10/10 point made.

Just FYI, none of said priest abilities are usable when silenced either. Can't speak for druids, but the only thing a silenced paladin can do is bubble, and nothing when interrupted.


Paladins have bubble, 3 non DR CC's and Devotion Aura...
And you shouldn't be interrupted, as a paladin you have so many procs that the only time you should be casting is with the aura/bubble up.
Edited by Shrewd on 11/26/2012 7:53 AM PST
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