What would you think of a same sex couple?

90 Night Elf Hunter
17875
I believe it's already ingame. Implied heavily. Kinelory ( http://www.wowpedia.org/Kinelory ) and Quae ( http://www.wowpedia.org/Quae )

Kinelory's signature line as she fights is 'Nothing will keep me from getting back to Quae!' or something like that. She really wants to return to her partner. The implication I saw was they are more than just friends, but possibly lovers too.


Yeah, I was planning to mention them. I also thought it was pretty strongly implied that they were in ladies in love.
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90 Worgen Warlock
16740
Would be neat.

Some societies might be intolerant, so if the couple was to be made in one of those, would be interesting to have the couple, at least one of them, to be a like outside of the picture. Like a Rogue, Hunter or Warlock in the Human society. For example, some sort of bounty-hunter, a woman that lives for herself, mets a Priest and began to develop a deep and romantic relation around their situation.

While there could be an open one in the Night Elf society. It could be common for them. Considering males and females tend to stay quite separately. And of course, the females do the hard work. Males are a bunch of lazy druid sleeping for 10 thousand years. And considering they were immortal, would make sense to have a lot of them in this kind of relation, since reproduction was not really necessary.

Between two races would be even cooler.

11/16/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Gávinn
i dont think it has a place in a fantasy setting....


That would make sense if Blizz avoided any kind of relationship. But after shoving Thrall's feeling and his married down our throats (and mysteriously forgot about the ritual, which was the important thing there), I don't think they have any argument anymore.
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90 Human Monk
2365
Sure, why not.

Bonus points if it's two girls.


See, this is why I don't like it in games. Because the men want two women, and if it's two guys, it's "wrong."

I'm not saying you said it's wrong Draile, but that's the attitude of a lot of male gamers towards it.


But it's not okay for a girl to want it to be two guys?

Gender is irrelevant--there are girls who will cry it's wrong if it's two girls, too.



I guess I don't see it being such a big issue. If the quest or situation in which this goes on is not sexual in any way, then why would it matter if it were two guys or two girls?


Things implied go a long way towards appeal!



11/16/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Gávinn
Id rather not see any gay/lesbian couples in the game i dont think it has a place in a fantasy setting....


Bioware!
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That would make sense if Blizz avoided any kind of relationship. But after shoving Thrall's feeling and his married down our throats (and mysteriously forgot about the ritual, which was the important thing there), I don't think they have any argument anymore.


This hypocrisy is completely justified by the almighty balance sheet.

Not saying it's right, but there it is. In twenty years, none of this will matter, but at present we are in a transition period and large portions of the paying public just don't want to see this sort of thing or deal with it. And Blizzard is no longer a company appealing to a niche audience of gamer geeks. They have 10 million cats to herd.

Blizzard could do the right and brave thing, sure. They will not. It would cost them. In the end, they're a business and trying to make a profit. When market research gives this a green light (i.e., they'll gain more than they lose in terms of revenue,) it'll happen. Maybe sooner than I think even, things are changing amazingly fast.

There's a lot of wink, wink, nudge nudge stuff that goes on in game, however. Nothing explicit, but if you want to read between the lines, you can do so. That portion of their paying public which doesn't want to see these things won't, and others will. It's very clever. I don't believe for a second it is accidental.
Edited by Deerde on 11/17/2012 3:38 AM PST
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90 Orc Shaman
10040
11/17/2012 02:10 AMPosted by Aureus
Sort of a "What do we gain by adding this?" question, and if there isn't a good answer, why bother?


To show it exists, and is a relevant situation.

Right now Warcraft does it as more an open secret. Nothing is stated with characters, but they show subtle undertone that could go that way if someone wanted to look at them this way.

Its the easy way out.
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2 Pandaren Rogue
0
11/16/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Gávinn
Id rather not see any gay/lesbian couples in the game i dont think it has a place in a fantasy setting....


Oh, I agree. It's just not realistic.

I mean, dragons and omnicidal demons and magic and literal embodiments of negative emotions and Lovecraftian ancient beings and gaping continuity errors are a-ok.

But, you know.

We very well can't do the gee-ay-why thing.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11755
I nominate Tholo and Anren, though their time might have passed with the Firelands dalies being old hat now.

11/17/2012 05:06 AMPosted by Eretnik
Sort of a "What do we gain by adding this?" question, and if there isn't a good answer, why bother?


To show it exists, and is a relevant situation.

Right now Warcraft does it as more an open secret. Nothing is stated with characters, but they show subtle undertone that could go that way if someone wanted to look at them this way.

Its the easy way out.


Gonna agree with Deerde on this one with:

11/17/2012 03:29 AMPosted by Deerde
This hypocrisy is completely justified by the almighty balance sheet.


At the end of the day, Blizzard is a business, a business exists to make money. It's not their place for pushing political or social agendas. It's up to them to decide if putting a !@#$%^-*!@ couple in the game is worth any possible backlash they might receive not only from the player base but a world full of stupid that loves to find and jump on this kinda thing like a kitten with a laser pointer.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
11/16/2012 06:55 PMPosted by Noitora
I wouldn't care. People shouldn't care. As to why Blizz won't do it, between the inevitable drama, and the lack of quality and interest in romance stories, I doubt they'd please anyone with it. Blizzard is barely good at writing the straight ones.


This essentially.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
0
Blizzard does straight relationships pretty awfully.

I'd hate to see what they'd do with such a sensitive issue.

Plus, I'm tired of wedding or lovers quests. Just let me kill things.
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I think the best way for Blizzard to do it, at least initially, is to not make a big deal about it.

Just have a random questgiver refer you to his/her spouse over in the next questhub, and said spouse turns out to be of the same gender. At no point does anyone make a big deal of it be it the couple themselves or any of the nearby NPC's, sort of like how the human female/gnome male relationship is handled in Sholozar.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
I think the best way for Blizzard to do it, at least initially, is to not make a big deal about it.

Just have a random questgiver refer you to his/her spouse over in the next questhub, and said spouse turns out to be of the same gender. At no point does anyone make a big deal of it be it the couple themselves or any of the nearby NPC's, sort of like how the human female/gnome male relationship is handled in Sholozar.


Agreed.
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89 Human Paladin
9115
11/16/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Gávinn
Id rather not see any gay/lesbian couples in the game i dont think it has a place in a fantasy setting....


Before I get into my opinion on this whole thing, can you explain why you don't think it has a place in a fantasy setting? I mean, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not intolerant but.... without explaining the "why" of that, can you kinda see why some people might think you are?

Personally, I think LGBT people should be represented in fantasy. There's always been LGBT people in human history, so the fact that a lot of fantasy is set in the past is kind of irrelevant. In fact, Game of Thrones does a really good job of showing what life may have been like for gay men back in the Middle Ages -- and does it in a fantasy setting (low fantasy, but still fantasy!)
Then there's the fact that LGBT people -- like anyone else -- are always looking to relate to characters. It helps them get invested. And even though everyone can relate to someone who is different than them and it's also not like the only part of an LGBT person's life that they can associate with characters is that, but it's also nice to throw LGBT people a bone by giving them a character who isn't straight.

Now.... firstly, I'm not going to talk about implementing a lesbian relationship since I'm fairly sure there's two in game already (the Sentinels in Dragonblight and Quae and Kinelory -- both implied, and I'd like to see at least one of them expanded on just enough so that we know for sure they are lesbians.)
As far as implementing a gay relationship... (or really, expanding on either of the lesbian ones) it's got to be handled carefully, respectfully... and hopefully in a way that anyone who is homophobic can skip over it and not miss anything vital to the story so that we don't hear (as much) complaining that it exists in the game.
I also don't think anyone wants quests that involve getting the two of them together. Nobody wants to go to another wedding. It's important to note these things are going on in Azeroth, but we're adventurers/mercenaries. This is really not something we're likely to make a high priority.
And.... I would hope that Blizzard would not make the characters involved total stereotypes. This is my biggest concern, because I'm not sure Blizzard is capable of implying someone's a gay man without giving him a lisp and a purple man-purse.

If it's done though, it should be done in a way to add depth to Azeroth. We should gain by seeing either that whichever race/races involved do or don't care about a person's sexuality. Are Orcs a homophobic society? Are Night Elves? I'm curious, and we can speculate about it all we want but we'll never know for sure unless Blizzard gives us a hint.

But I'm not positive I trust Blizzard to handle this in a way that won't make it terrible. I'm not even going to suggest the idea of Blizzard handling a transgender character because I can tell you already that will basically just end up a male NPC in a dress looking silly.
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90 Human Mage
3900
Id rather not see any gay/lesbian couples in the game i dont think it has a place in a fantasy setting....


Before I get into my opinion on this whole thing, can you explain why you don't think it has a place in a fantasy setting? I mean, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not intolerant but.... without explaining the "why" of that, can you kinda see why some people might think you are?

Personally, I think LGBT people should be represented in fantasy. There's always been LGBT people in human history, so the fact that a lot of fantasy is set in the past is kind of irrelevant. In fact, Game of Thrones does a really good job of showing what life may have been like for gay men back in the Middle Ages -- and does it in a fantasy setting (low fantasy, but still fantasy!)
Then there's the fact that LGBT people -- like anyone else -- are always looking to relate to characters. It helps them get invested. And even though everyone can relate to someone who is different than them and it's also not like the only part of an LGBT person's life that they can associate with characters is that, but it's also nice to throw LGBT people a bone by giving them a character who isn't straight.

Now.... firstly, I'm not going to talk about implementing a lesbian relationship since I'm fairly sure there's two in game already (the Sentinels in Dragonblight and Quae and Kinelory -- both implied, and I'd like to see at least one of them expanded on just enough so that we know for sure they are lesbians.)
As far as implementing a gay relationship... (or really, expanding on either of the lesbian ones) it's got to be handled carefully, respectfully... and hopefully in a way that anyone who is homophobic can skip over it and not miss anything vital to the story so that we don't hear (as much) complaining that it exists in the game.
I also don't think anyone wants quests that involve getting the two of them together. Nobody wants to go to another wedding. It's important to note these things are going on in Azeroth, but we're adventurers/mercenaries. This is really not something we're likely to make a high priority.
And.... I would hope that Blizzard would not make the characters involved total stereotypes. This is my biggest concern, because I'm not sure Blizzard is capable of implying someone's a gay man without giving him a lisp and a purple man-purse.

If it's done though, it should be done in a way to add depth to Azeroth. We should gain by seeing either that whichever race/races involved do or don't care about a person's sexuality. Are Orcs a homophobic society? Are Night Elves? I'm curious, and we can speculate about it all we want but we'll never know for sure unless Blizzard gives us a hint.

But I'm not positive I trust Blizzard to handle this in a way that won't make it terrible. I'm not even going to suggest the idea of Blizzard handling a transgender character because I can tell you already that will basically just end up a male NPC in a dress looking silly.


What if they changed the emotes of the Night Elves in Star's Rest? Maybe have the second NE smile back at her companion. Something that would show a little more firmly that they got together, or maybe patched things up?

That seems like it would be a pretty low key way of putting something in the game, that we would have to speculate about.

EDIT: And Gavinn, if you don't like where this thread is going, please don't post in it. There's no need to try to stir up drama in a thread that was going very civilly.
Edited by Marcellena on 11/17/2012 9:58 AM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
17870
http://www.wowhead.com/item=87530

It's not even really major in the throwaway books, it's probably completely normal on Azeroth.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
I'll say this..when there's more romance in Azeroth that's totally good and decent. THEN we can think about the other side. Until then we have to bide our time.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
11/17/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Gávinn
thrall was the main character of the cataclysm of the story so of course were going to see his personal side of things.


So if another major character happened to be the focus of the story, and was LGBT, what then?
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