(Spoilers) Did Aethas betray the Kirin Tor?

25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Kel'Thezud and the many many Kirin Tor mages that followed him have done more damage than this Sunreaver faction has to Dalaran. They could be a little more understanding about rogue members.


Because Kel'thuzad only got a slap on the wrist and certainly wasn't threatened with expulsion even despite his standing as a member of the Six.

11/17/2012 05:09 AMPosted by Zerde
Presumable because he knows who his enemy truly is, Garrosh.


No, his enemy is the Horde. This whole "It's just Garrosh!" nonsense has been false since day one.
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I'm more concerned by the Sha in Silvermoon City, than the Sunreavers at this point
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90 Undead Warlock
5995
11/17/2012 06:10 AMPosted by Spellestra
I'm more concerned by the Sha in Silvermoon City, than the Sunreavers at this point


The odd thing is, is that the artifact that Aethas is in Silvermoon studying on Theron's orders isn't the bell, which I always though it was. Where the Naaru once stood, there's a large box with mogu design, as well as several Silvermoon Magistrate channeling magic into it. Lor'themar sends you down there to check up, and you hear Rommath and Aethas's distain for each other.

Shortly after asking for a checkup, Aethas and Rommath both become infected by the Sha, with Aethas shouting his hatred of Hellscream. Little Sha spawn as you and Silvermoon Guards fight them, while Aethas and Rommath duke it out. I'm not sure what calms them down though, as they are both clearly alive and the Dalaran event is set after the incident. After being freed from Sha, Rommath extresses his complete surprise at the power of the sha and how powerful the emotions are.
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I am confused. If this thing in Silvermoon isn't the bell, where is the bell? What's the timeline here, does this go down before the Darn heist?
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90 Undead Warlock
5995
11/17/2012 07:36 AMPosted by Deerde
I am confused. If this thing in Silvermoon isn't the bell, where is the bell? What's the timeline here, does this go down before the Darn heist?


Basically, here's the titles of the quest lines, not single quests but entire quest lines themselves.
Voice of the Gods
Blood for Blood
The Korune
Pride
Rise of the Blood Elves
Secrets of the Past
The Divine Bell
The Darnassus Operation
The Purge of Dalaran
Breath of Darkest Shadow

The information I am giving you is from the Rise of the Blood Elves quest line, and you can see the Divine Bell and Darnassus Operation is later down the list. The quest text simply says it's a Mogu artifact, nothing more and nothing less.

P.S. I like Lor'themar Theron's new eye patch.
Edited by Ximothy on 11/17/2012 7:43 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
Kel'Thezud and the many many Kirin Tor mages that followed him have done more damage than this Sunreaver faction has to Dalaran. They could be a little more understanding about rogue members.


No. After Theramore and what almost happened in Darnassus, there isn't any more wiggle room that can be taken. Theramore happened pretty quick and Darnassus was almost instantaneous (break in, steal the Bell, ring it right there, then haul butt out the portal). There wasn't tome to step back and take a head count of who is and isn't disloyal. She did the right thing by having the entire order taken into custody. After that, they can sort out who is innocent and who isn't. And all of those captured (remember resisting arrest is a crime in of itself, especially when they are just trying to arrest you and you fight back to kill) should now understand how those Sunreaver traitors have screwed everyone in the organization over.
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Well based on the timeline, this is happening before the Darn heist, and we can't draw any firm conclusions on what Aethas' degree of involvement was based on the Rise of the Blood Elves quest.

I still say it's Rommath.
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Well based on the timeline, this is happening before the Darn heist, and we can't draw any firm conclusions on what Aethas' degree of involvement was based on the Rise of the Blood Elves quest.

I still say it's Rommath.


We do know that Rommath is dismissive of the Kirin Tor and highly suspicious of Dalaran being neutral with Jaina leading. So it's not out of the realm of possibility for Rommath to have his own agents in the Sunreavers.
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90 Worgen Warlock
16740
The odd thing is, is that the artifact that Aethas is in Silvermoon studying on Theron's orders isn't the bell, which I always though it was. Where the Naaru once stood, there's a large box with mogu design, as well as several Silvermoon Magistrate channeling magic into it. Lor'themar sends you down there to check up, and you hear Rommath and Aethas's distain for each other.

Shortly after asking for a checkup, Aethas and Rommath both become infected by the Sha, with Aethas shouting his hatred of Hellscream. Little Sha spawn as you and Silvermoon Guards fight them, while Aethas and Rommath duke it out. I'm not sure what calms them down though, as they are both clearly alive and the Dalaran event is set after the incident. After being freed from Sha, Rommath extresses his complete surprise at the power of the sha and how powerful the emotions are.


I didn't get it. What exactly made you think that's not the bell? It was supposed to happen if they are messing with the bell, yes? And you even said the Dalaran event is after.
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11/17/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Vyrin
Why is Varian still going "Oh, we should be friends with the Blood Elves" when they attacked an Alliance city?


I hate it as much as the next guy, but from a strategical standpoint it would be better to turn Garrosh's enemies against him rather than having to fight through them.
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At best, Aethas seems like a General Robert E. Lee figure.

Did he have reservations about siding with the Horde? Sure.

But he still did it. Even in the OP's Quotes, he is very obviously running experiments for Garrosh related to using Mogu power as a weapon.

He sided with the Horde. Whether he got angry or had second thoughts about it later is beside the point. He did it.
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11/17/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Osiria
I didn't get it. What exactly made you think that's not the bell? It was supposed to happen if they are messing with the bell, yes? And you even said the Dalaran event is after.


The Dominance Offensive list has The Divine Bell after the Rise of the Blood Elves, which when the artifact is being analyzed.

So there are two possibilities.

1.) The artifact is not the Divine Bell, but a possible key in revealing the location of the Bell.

2.) The artifact is the Divine Bell and "The Divine Bell" quest will end with the Night Elves obtaining the Bell from the Horde.
Edited by Gornur on 11/17/2012 12:35 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
5995
11/17/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Osiria
I didn't get it. What exactly made you think that's not the bell? It was supposed to happen if they are messing with the bell, yes? And you even said the Dalaran event is after.


Because I read through the quests, and there was no mention of any Divine Bell. It's pretty clear the Blood Elves get the bell from Darnassus in the first place.
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90 Tauren Druid
7210
11/17/2012 12:06 PMPosted by Gornur
We do know that Rommath is dismissive of the Kirin Tor and highly suspicious of Dalaran being neutral with Jaina leading. So it's not out of the realm of possibility for Rommath to have his own agents in the Sunreavers.


Rommath isn't behind it; he also turns against Garrosh over this. Rommath first and foremost loves his people first like many of the other Blood Elves (and was also the primary motivation for not siding with Kael'thas for the Sunwell raid).

Also note that Rommath personally doesn't think very highly of the Kirin Tor because they tried to execute him.

11/17/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Osiria
I didn't get it. What exactly made you think that's not the bell?


Because it's not. Early on in the quest line Garrosh has the Blood Elves find some ancient monolith which describes the Bell, and has a box shipped to Silvermoon to study. The box turns out to have a Sha in it, Lor'themar gets pissed at Garrosh over this and starts negotiations with Varian.

Later down the line the Horde tries to pick up the Bell, but the Alliance gets it first. Then that's when the Darnassus incursion happens. After that comes the Sunreaver purge and the breakdown of negotiations between Varian and Lor'themar.
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Rommath isn't behind it; he also turns against Garrosh over this. Rommath first and foremost loves his people first like many of the other Blood Elves (and was also the primary motivation for not siding with Kael'thas for the Sunwell raid).

Also note that Rommath personally doesn't think very highly of the Kirin Tor because they tried to execute him.


I don't think Rommath is but I do believe he has inside men inside the Sunreavers. That would explain how he became aware of what was happening in Dalaran so fast.

...any know if he will get a model update?
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
10350
Rommath isn't behind it; he also turns against Garrosh over this. Rommath first and foremost loves his people first like many of the other Blood Elves (and was also the primary motivation for not siding with Kael'thas for the Sunwell raid).

Also note that Rommath personally doesn't think very highly of the Kirin Tor because they tried to execute him.


I don't think Rommath is but I do believe he has inside men inside the Sunreavers. That would explain how he became aware of what was happening in Dalaran so fast.

...any know if he will get a model update?


He looks pretty cool as it is, an update may not be an improvement for him.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
13390
I am so excited for this upcoming lore :)
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23 Worgen Rogue
70
11/17/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Vyrin
Why is Varian still going "Oh, we should be friends with the Blood Elves" when they attacked an Alliance city?

Because he wants to give them an out: leave the maniac and come back to the Alliance. The Blood Elves have the weakest ties to the Horde and the strongest ties to the Alliance of any Horde faction. Courting them is likelier to help in the long run than taking a hard line approach.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
11/19/2012 09:13 AMPosted by Jaaffar
Why is Varian still going "Oh, we should be friends with the Blood Elves" when they attacked an Alliance city?

Because he wants to give them an out: leave the maniac and come back to the Alliance. The Blood Elves have the weakest ties to the Horde and the strongest ties to the Alliance of any Horde faction. Courting them is likelier to help in the long run than taking a hard line approach.


I doubt they'd be well received by the Night elves. Especially if they -had- succeeded and Varian had drawn the Blood elves back to the Alliance. The Night elves would be absolutely furious. Killing mad. Especially when it came out that Blood elves were responsible for that action. If the Blood elves had switched sides (which would screw over ever blood elf player and -all- of the blood elves outside of Quel'thalas), the Blood elves would have to watch out for Night elven assassins hunting them down and killing them. There shouldn't be any good reason for the surviving Night elves to forgive and forget after their capital city was wiped out.
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I doubt they'd be well received by the Night elves. Especially if they -had- succeeded and Varian had drawn the Blood elves back to the Alliance. The Night elves would be absolutely furious. Killing mad. Especially when it came out that Blood elves were responsible for that action. If the Blood elves had switched sides (which would screw over ever blood elf player and -all- of the blood elves outside of Quel'thalas), the Blood elves would have to watch out for Night elven assassins hunting them down and killing them. There shouldn't be any good reason for the surviving Night elves to forgive and forget after their capital city was wiped out.


I don't think there is any indication that Darnassus is anything approaching "wiped out". The Sunrevers basically open a portal so the Horde can sneak in and steal the Divine Bell. If any damage is done to the city, it will be relatively minor in the grand scheme of things.
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