BWC Dungeon Challenge

90 Worgen Warlock
15710
Between the camera guy that loves to keep his camera as close to the ground as possible, and the (possibly inebriated??) camera guy that, for example, couldn't figure out how to navigate Master Snowdrift's staircase...well, it's a really bad viewpoint for us.

I wish I could see what is going on, and that the commentators had more interesting things to say than "so what does this boss do?", "well, fire hurts, derp."

It's just watching people and their shiny spell effects, which is really no fun for anyone that actually knows what these dungeons are, or even what WoW is. The challenge mode stream feels like a sales pitch to me, trying to sell the game to people that are unfamiliar at the cost of the entertainment of the actual players .
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100 Troll Rogue
21875
11/16/2012 08:05 PMPosted by Digerati
A best of 3 would have worked out fine for each individual instance.

Those times for SH were pretty bad. 12:40 and 13:09 are slow times. 13:09 isn't even a gold time.
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100 Gnome Mage
20080
A best of 3 would have worked out fine for each individual instance.

Those times for SH were pretty bad. 12:40 and 13:09 are slow times. 13:09 isn't even a gold time.


At least when I did it, Gold took awhile, and I feel like after attaining Gold that we wouldn't be able to get Gold every time. Stuff happens. Still, if they're in this event you can bet they put dozens of hours into practicing this.

I'd be playing rather conservatively too in this. A wipe is a game breaker. If they're both playing conservatively, there's no reason for either side to do anything too risky strat-wise.
Edited by Digerati on 11/16/2012 8:20 PM PST
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100 Gnome Mage
20080
Not losing the Yeasty alementals.
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100 Gnome Mage
20080
Yeah I think this could have used an on-screen timer with the score or some such.
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100 Troll Rogue
21875
At least when I did it, Gold took awhile, and I feel like after attaining Gold that we wouldn't be able to get Gold every time. Stuff happens. Still, if they're in this event you can bet they put dozens of hours into practicing this.

I'd be playing rather conservative too in this. A wipe is a game breaker. If they're both playing conservative, there's no reason for either side to do anything too risky strat-wise.

I get that and I probably would be playing pretty conservative too but after doing these for gold I can see a whole bunch of things they could do to optimize the time that wouldn't add too much risk. For instance neither team LoS'd the yeasty waves which probably saves 10+ seconds at minimal risk. I wouldn't be surprised if neither team gets gold time on brewery.
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100 Gnome Mage
20080
Ew arena, that's it for me lol. Wish I had seen this thread earlier so I could comment on it.
Edited by Digerati on 11/16/2012 8:22 PM PST
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100 Undead Warrior
16450
lol, the whining comments of the commenters after the ''cut off'' is the best
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100 Troll Rogue
21875
11/16/2012 08:22 PMPosted by Gaudaloht
lol, the whining comments of the commenters after the ''cut off'' is the best

Switched over to SC2. What did they say?
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Community Manager
All your feedback has been noted.
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100 Dwarf Hunter
16295
Enjoyed it, however...

Not sure why 40% of the screen was wasted space. Maybe they could cut to player views as well to keep it interesting. With UI on so we can see damage numbers and healing numbers
Edited by Bendak on 11/16/2012 8:28 PM PST
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100 Gnome Mage
20080
I don't want stray offtopic, but Daxx if you could ask the forum admin to make a Challenge Mode board it'd really help CMs take off. I've suggested it a couple times in the past because:

- There's enough discussion/theorycraft to merit its own board, sort of like a class board

- The D & R & Scenarios board is too all-encompassing right now for any sort of focused discussion to culminate

- It's done a lot for Pet Battles

- CMs are cross-realmable and it'd be a place for players to find groups

Blizzard has been monitoring how well CMs are received by the community, and if they had a board here they'd really take off. I think the lack of a CM board is just a small oversight but really important to spurring their growth and appeal.

PS: This goes without saying but the EU and other global sites would probably want one too if they don't have one already.
Edited by Digerati on 11/16/2012 8:33 PM PST
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100 Undead Warrior
16450
Is still funny to watch, but yeah keep the feedback in mind at least for the next raid challenge, that the one for the blizzcon was great
i mean one of the commentators had to go and find someone to tell him the time of the challenges cause they were working with no time in the ui
also a bit of info about the comps of the teams would be cool they just started the last dungeon without saying anything, there was a lot of miscommunication between the guys running the challenge's cameras, times and the commentators
But yet im grateful for the free chance of watching the event, so thanks
Edited by Gaudaloht on 11/16/2012 8:43 PM PST
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100 Troll Rogue
21875
11/16/2012 08:25 PMPosted by Daxxarri
All your feedback has been noted.

Just to consolidate my thoughts on this.

1) The target audience on these really needs to be selected. Are they intended for players who understand the dungeons or are they intended for players who have never seen them. If the former then discussions of boss abilities is kinda silly, if the latter why are you showing CMs at all? CMs pretty much require knowledge to enjoy watching they aren't something the uninitiated can watch and get anything out of no matter how good the spectator view and commentator quality is.

2) Commentators need to be more familiar not only with challenge modes in theory but in practice. So many times comments were made about trash skipping mechanics but anyone who has done the CMs knows that both groups were following pretty standard pull patterns. A commentator who was more familiar with the format in practice could talk about how they are taking difficult packs specifically rather then offering basic boilerplate about how they are using stuns and aoeing. Even comments on comp balance and the implications of the comps used on strategies was missing.

3) Spectator UI. To watch these intelligently I'd like to see raid frames and the objectives UI with timer and mob counter at the minimum. Ideally the UI should just be one of the players that way we'd have a lot of info. Also drop the big frame, make full use of the screen.

4) The format needs to be worked out. The format used at the launch event would be pretty good, give each team a finite number of resets to use, either per dungeon or over the entire set and sum times. This would also let teams pull as aggressively as they might want in a full speed run so the times they put up would actually be good times. Related to (3) I think it would be better for the teams to run one at a time, it would take longer but trying to comment on two groups simultaneously makes things more confusing then need be.

I'm still skeptical that CMs will be all that interesting to watch for most players in general since the subtlety of paths taken and how certain pulls are approached will be lost on them. However if the goal is to make CMs work the 4 things above would make them at least a lot more fun for people who do understand whats going on to watch.
Edited by Fierydemise on 11/16/2012 8:49 PM PST
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90 Goblin Shaman
15035
Viewpoint was terrible and no UI displaying any sort of information was a bit of a turn off.

Player PoV, actual dungeon timer with objective display, and less OMGWTFGIANTLOGO in between the side by side would have went a great deal to improve the stream.

Also I want to say I agree with Dig's post. CM's need their own board as well as a separate subsection for LFM PvP and PvE boards, just like the EU forums implemented.
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100 Human Hunter
9980
Also, it would be great if both of the commentators had any idea what they were talking about. Obviously the dev was okay but the other guy was completely clueless. Examples:

In Shado-pan, STARS invised past 2 packs after the second boss. If you invis past more than 1 pack you won't have enough mobs for the trash counter. I just shook my head when they couldn't figure out why STARS was killing trash after they had finished the last boss (though the complete lack of a UI certainly didn't help this fact).

Scarlet Halls: Clueless guy talking about how STARS had bad dps because they killed the Lieutenant slower than Supreme Quicksand, completely oblivious to the fact that QS finished the gauntlet before STARS was even at the archery targets. Then proceeds to rave about STARS dps after they kill Houndmaster before QS. Clueless guy also freaked out when STARS pulled the patrol to the stairs after their invisibility. Anyone who has ever attempted a Gold knows that you need those for the kill counter.

There's a lot of individual skill that goes into a successful challenge mode. It would be nice if future commentators are able to highlight that rather than talking about mundane things. I think it would be more exciting and interesting to viewers to talk about the strategy, because otherwise it just looks like the group is doing a regular heroic and AoEing everything down. Talking about the lore of a boss and saying "this is really hard, trust us guys" is incredibly uninteresting.

edit: beaten a bit
Edited by Inudemon on 11/16/2012 9:05 PM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
8680
Suggestions for next time Blizzard wants to do this:

-Show the lifebar and class colors in the UI. The player and enemy lifebars are similar to the scoreboard in a real sport. Without them, it's not that interesting.
-Get better cameramen.
-Have teams come from different countries for more drama. Imagine an American guild versus a Chinese guild.
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