Tanks - No party damage now

90 Draenei Priest
9355
I don't like the way that a tank with enough gear can become completely self sufficient.

In the previous expansion, a geared tank and a geared healer just meant it was easier to heal - You had longer to heal him, you didn't have to heal him for as much, you healed for more each time you cast, and you spent less time doing it. But now, when you have a geared tank in, say, a heroic dungeon, you might as well not be there as the healer in the party, as the tank can cover everything.

I don't feel like my contribution to the group is important, or even necessary at all.

I guess another contributing factor is that my heals are quite strong now, so when a geared tank takes the rare bit of damage, or somebody stands in something painful, it's usually trivial to heal it back up, but if I have adjusted my playstyle to something a bit more... contributory... say, by respeccing shadow, or changing chakra, it then becomes a chore or even dangerous to try to heal em.

I don't like seeing my Prayer of Mending sit on somebody I am expecting to take a small bit of damage, and there is Guard on that player absorbing 150k damage first.

So it's not the fact that dungeons are stupidly easy (well, they are, but thats not the point of this post), its the fact that I don't even have an easy role in the party any more. I just am not necessary. It seems I should roll a tank if I want to absorb or reverse damage on party members.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
I challenge you to do Shado-Pan Monastery on Heroic and come back and tell me that a healer isn't needed.

Edited to Add: I would also point out that your ilvl is 469. That's at least nineteen ilvls above what the dungeons were designed for.

If it bugs you so bad, take your gear off and do it naked. *shrug*
Edited by Tiriél on 11/16/2012 2:42 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
9355
I challenge you to do Shado-Pan Monastery on Heroic and come back and tell me that a healer isn't needed.


Yeah, that's another thing that bothers me.

Some pulls, including the first part of Shado-Pan, there is next to no damage, and then later in the same dungeon there is incredibly high damage.

Another reason that you can't just respec since you aren't needed to heal.

Edited to Add: I would also point out that your ilvl is 469. That's at least nineteen ilvls above what the dungeons were designed for.


Yeah, but I kinda acknowledged that in my post. The point is: Gear used to make it easier, without leaving you with nothing to do. Trust me, I know, I was doing Cataclysm heroics daily in Deathwing gear, too.
Edited by Dominish on 11/16/2012 3:40 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
11/16/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Dominish
Yeah, but I kinda acknowledged that in my post. The point is: Gear used to make it easier, without leaving you with nothing to do. Trust me, I know, I was doing Cataclysm heroics daily in Deathwing gear, too.


You have nothing to do.

I have plenty to do.

Also, what is this healing that you did in HoT dungeons? I do not recall this healing.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
1. If you find yourself bored in heroics, try starting up friendly chatter in party. Sometimes it works.

2. Do moar DPS in heal spec.

3. Do challenge modes for challenge as a healer <- this is going to be the real answer. Heroics are no longer going to challenge players with even moderate gear. This is intentional. Challenge modes are for players who want a little more ... challenge. :P
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
3. Do challenge modes for challenge as a healer <- this is going to be the real answer. Heroics are no longer going to challenge players with even moderate gear. This is intentional. Challenge modes are for players who want a little more ... challenge. :P


That moment, when you're pulling 70k+ HPS on a boss fight and you realize that maybe, just maybe, you're doing that fight wrong...

Challenge modes are great fun.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
I haven't done any yet but I am really looking forward to them. Trying to get my guildies into it. :P
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10215

2. Do moar DPS in heal spec.


This is what I usually end up doing. Regularly beat at least 1 dps or the tank.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Priest
13930

2. Do moar DPS in heal spec.


This is what I usually end up doing. Regularly beat at least 1 dps or the tank.


I went into some heroics this week to pick up extra VP. In two dungeons I was the top DPS. :<
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
9355


3. Do challenge modes for challenge as a healer <- this is going to be the real answer. Heroics are no longer going to challenge players with even moderate gear. This is intentional. Challenge modes are for players who want a little more ... challenge. :P


Well, yep, this thread was pretty much born out of my frustration that I haven't been able to get enough guildies online and interested to do them.

I'd probably do nothing else if I could always find a group.

Edit: Watch this space, I'll be back with a couple video links once they get done uploading.
Edited by Dominish on 11/16/2012 5:35 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
11/16/2012 05:15 PMPosted by Dominish
I'd probably do nothing else if I could always find a group.


Since you can do them cross realm, I wouldn't be surprised if OpenRaid.us or something similar could be used to match people on separate realms for challenge modes.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
11/16/2012 05:19 PMPosted by Tiriél
I'd probably do nothing else if I could always find a group.


Since you can do them cross realm, I wouldn't be surprised if OpenRaid.us or something similar could be used to match people on separate realms for challenge modes.


Also this: Cross Realm Challenge Mode Group Thread

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794212347
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
9355
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0GA_ufdTQqI#t=179s

^ Tell me again how my gear is what's causing it to be too easy?
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Priest
13930
Much of the damage on that boss is avoidable, and if people are quick enough on killing the Weak Spot for the final boss and at running away when fixated, there isn't much damage going out.

Gear in general causes things to become easier. You had what looks like a well geared, competent group—and those are the sort of groups that have always made healing much less needed in heroics.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
9355
11/16/2012 06:58 PMPosted by Elethia
Much of the damage on that boss is avoidable, and if people are quick enough on killing the Weak Spot for the final boss and at running away when fixated, there isn't much damage going out.


Yup, and, not to be mean, but...
I'm not looking for you to explain why my party isn't taking damage.

I'm just trying to say, please make sure there is something for me to do!!

You had what looks like a well geared, competent group


Watch what the Paladin is doing ;)
Edited by Dominish on 11/16/2012 7:08 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
5685
I found when i'm tanking, a lot of healers tend to just overheal to try and snipe from my glyph of battle healer. Or maybe they are just overhealing because they are bored. Either way, I usually end up doing 60% of the healing as a prot pally.

It could probably be 100% given how much goes into overhealing, except for those fights where you get no vengeance like the trash before Snowdrift.

I think the problem is the massive variance. Yes, it can be horrifically boring to have a good tank. I've also had tanks back when I was holy, who would be a roller-coaster to heal, as they die faster than than I can beacon them, use holy shock off of CD and Divine light them.

So, If you tune it for the good players in PUGs, the bad ones just become unhealable.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
9355

So, If you tune it for the good players in PUGs, the bad ones just become unhealable.


Valid point, but, instead of tuning dungeons differently, they can make the difference between a good and bad tank not so large, by changing the classes.

For comparison with the above video, I've uploaded two videos of similarly competent/geared groups from cataclysm. (Forgive the video quality, they were recorded last year, and were some of the first videos I ever captured)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT3bucPjc9A (Lockjaw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idNtVZMgmCk (General Umbriss)
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
15070
You can have the tank I had in the last Gate of the Setting Sun I did.

I think Brewmasters come in two flavors only: Incredibly Squishy, Solid as a Rock.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
9355
You can have the tank I had in the last Gate of the Setting Sun I did.

I think Brewmasters come in two flavors only: Incredibly Squishy, Solid as a Rock.


Yeah. Is it too much to ask for some middle ground?
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Priest
13930
11/16/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Dominish
Watch what the Paladin is doing ;)


Being lazy, but not doing anything that would normally cause him to take more damage?

On Lockjaw, people weren't killing the adds, so yeah, more damage there.
On General Umbriss, one of the DPS stood in his angry cleave.

Other than that, I wasn't seeing much to do. A Renew now and then because an add managed to clip a DPS.

I'm honestly not seeing much of a difference.

It all comes down to the same thing: a well geared, competent group will always trivialize easy content.

And making the difference between a good and bad tank smaller means making the class easier. :/ Classes are easy enough as is.

If you want Blizzard to make every fight have incidental, unavoidable damage, then ask for that.
Edited by Elethia on 11/16/2012 8:07 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]