Zandalari trolls in MoP

90 Human Paladin
11625
I hope we don't have to fight those we helped in Vanilla in defeating the Gurubashi empire, I hope they form a splinter group (Similar to the Klaxxi and Mantid) and we help them as well as the Darkspear stop the Mogu/Evil Zandalari. Surprisingly to me out of all the Horde races trolls seem the most neutral ( even compared to the tauren) and I could easily see my PC working with them (Similar to the troll heroics in Cata)
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100 Troll Shaman
5635
Interesting little factoid(s): There is still one Zandalari NPC around in Vanilla still in Stranglethorn, Maywiki (Formerly Maywiki of Zuldazar), who used to give quests for Shaman and Druid player characters. All other friendly Zandalari NPCs in-game at the moment were added in Cataclysm.

Interestingly enough, the PTR for the 4.1 Rise of the Zandalari patch had Zandalari NPCs giving quests within the updated Zul'Gurub, which were changed to Darkspear NPCs in a later build.

But yeah, I would very much like to see more of these original NPCs, preferably without also having to kill them.

They were among the few sources of lore on the Zandalari we'd gotten, and they could potentially be another boon to our knowledge of Troll and Zandalari history, were they once more friendly (or simply non-hostile).
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Interesting enough there are Zandalari trolls who are friendly to use in Stranglethorn.

Maywiki at the Explorers' League Digsite.

Chabal at the Hardwrench Hideaway.

Surkhan at Bambala.

Ghaliri at Fort Livingston.

They've been at these locations since Cata was launched and remain despite the Zandalari declaring War on everyone.

So either there is a splinter group of Zandalari who don't want war or these 4 straight up defected from the Zandalari.
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Interesting enough there are Zandalari trolls who are friendly to use in Stranglethorn.

Maywiki at the Explorers' League Digsite.

Chabal at the Hardwrench Hideaway.

Surkhan at Bambala.

Ghaliri at Fort Livingston.

They've been at these locations since Cata was launched and remain despite the Zandalari declaring War on everyone.

So either there is a splinter group of Zandalari who don't want war or these 4 straight up defected from the Zandalari.


Or blizzard forgot they exist
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100 Troll Shaman
5635
11/18/2012 03:12 PMPosted by Spellestra
Or blizzard forgot they exist

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if they were an oversight.

Thing is, the quests they hand out involve the player fighting the Hakkari High-priests and lead up to the Zandalari telling you they have to prevent the revival of Jin'do and his ilk.

Fast forward a couple months, and the Zandalari are working with the Hakkari, with no explanation or even acknowledgement for the change.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
13395
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if they were an oversight.

Thing is, the quests they hand out involve the player fighting the Hakkari High-priests and lead up to the Zandalari telling you they have to prevent the revival of Jin'do and his ilk.

Fast forward a couple months, and the Zandalari are working with the Hakkari, with no explanation or even acknowledgement for the change.


I wouldn't say it was an oversight so much as Blizzard opting to go a very different direction with the Zul'gurub then they originally planned. The NPC's weren't removed simply because the events of Stranglethron Vale take place before the Zandalari-Gurubashi alliance was created, and their removal would demand changing most of the leveling experience of both zones.

If you look strictly at the Cataclysm quests, it's pretty clear Blizzard originally meant for Zul'gurub to simply be a direct sequel to the original raid with no serious connection to other story arcs. My guess is when they were concepting out MoP and decided on Zandalari antagonists, they decided to make patch 4.1 a preview of that story arc instead of a standalone story.
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I wouldn't say it was an oversight so much as Blizzard opting to go a very different direction with the Zul'gurub then they originally planned. The NPC's weren't removed simply because the events of Stranglethron Vale take place before the Zandalari-Gurubashi alliance was created, and their removal would demand changing most of the leveling experience of both zones.

If you look strictly at the Cataclysm quests, it's pretty clear Blizzard originally meant for Zul'gurub to simply be a direct sequel to the original raid with no serious connection to other story arcs. My guess is when they were concepting out MoP and decided on Zandalari antagonists, they decided to make patch 4.1 a preview of that story arc instead of a standalone story.


That would make sense.

I'm guessing that's why they decided to have Muradin be magically live during Wrath since they needed a Bronzebeard on the Council of Three Hammers and Brann's an explorer.
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Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if they were an oversight.

Thing is, the quests they hand out involve the player fighting the Hakkari High-priests and lead up to the Zandalari telling you they have to prevent the revival of Jin'do and his ilk.

Fast forward a couple months, and the Zandalari are working with the Hakkari, with no explanation or even acknowledgement for the change.


I wouldn't say it was an oversight so much as Blizzard opting to go a very different direction with the Zul'gurub then they originally planned. The NPC's weren't removed simply because the events of Stranglethron Vale take place before the Zandalari-Gurubashi alliance was created, and their removal would demand changing most of the leveling experience of both zones.

If you look strictly at the Cataclysm quests, it's pretty clear Blizzard originally meant for Zul'gurub to simply be a direct sequel to the original raid with no serious connection to other story arcs. My guess is when they were concepting out MoP and decided on Zandalari antagonists, they decided to make patch 4.1 a preview of that story arc instead of a standalone story.


I would contend this.

Unless I'm getting my timings wrong, the 4.2 patch/trailer was designed to roughly coincide with the 6-year meeting Trolls always have. I thought it was pretty neat Blizzard was able to do that.

Also, content patches are thought up well in advance. The Troll story itself has always been a continuous, on-going one. It has always been about the last few major Troll Tribes being defeated, with some of them resorting to desperate measures.

I think the Zandalari turning was simply supposed to be a plot twist. I'm not saying they always intended it, but I will say that I think it would have taken them longer than just "during Cataclysm's development" to make that decision.

And these are Trolls we're talking about here. I can easily see them swaying their minds depending on who leads the tribe. When Rastakahn(terrible name by the way) was in charge, I'm sure he was all about defeating Hakkar and making relations with the other races. But now that he's out, it's entirely believable that the Zandalari have become bad news.

Not out of any evil intent. They're not bad people necessarily, after all. But the Zandalari do recognize what is happening to their race and it is their prerogative to do something about it.

Vol'jin is, after all, a race traitor. With good reason, yes, but a race-traitor all the same.
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That would make sense.

I'm guessing that's why they decided to have Muradin be magically live during Wrath since they needed a Bronzebeard on the Council of Three Hammers and Brann's an explorer.


Nah. There's lots of ways that could have gone down. I mean heck, look at how fast they changed the Wildhammer representative in Cataclysm beta.

I think having Muradin survive was just a stupid plot twist they brought in for the sake of bringing that character back. As good of a character as he was, he should have stayed dead.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
That would make sense.

I'm guessing that's why they decided to have Muradin be magically live during Wrath since they needed a Bronzebeard on the Council of Three Hammers and Brann's an explorer.


Nah. There's lots of ways that could have gone down. I mean heck, look at how fast they changed the Wildhammer representative in Cataclysm beta.

I think having Muradin survive was just a stupid plot twist they brought in for the sake of bringing that character back. As good of a character as he was, he should have stayed dead.


I disagree with you highly and your hair is white therefor you are invalid. It didn't really hinder the story by bringing him back.
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90 Orc Hunter
0
I think the Zandalari working like this is a setting for something big. They are the lorekeepers and the ones with most wisdom. If they are seeking to unite troll tribes and renewing old alliances, without regard as to how the other races look at them, they are expecting something big. That would really be a build up to a huge reveal probably.
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63 Draenei Paladin
1680
11/18/2012 09:21 PMPosted by Draile
And these are Trolls we're talking about here. I can easily see them swaying their minds depending on who leads the tribe. When Rastakahn(terrible name by the way) was in charge, I'm sure he was all about defeating Hakkar and making relations with the other races. But now that he's out, it's entirely believable that the Zandalari have become bad news.


According to Vol'jin Rastakhan is still leader of the Zandalari and implies that he is the one representing the Zandalari at the troll meeting in the Rise of the Zandalari patch 4.1 trailer.
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11/18/2012 09:36 PMPosted by Lorthuron
I disagree with you highly and your hair is white therefor you are invalid. It didn't really hinder the story by bringing him back.


It completely disregarded the point that Arthas was willing to kill his good friend and ally for the sake of killing another.



11/18/2012 10:33 PMPosted by Archpaladin
According to Vol'jin Rastakhan is still leader of the Zandalari and implies that he is the one representing the Zandalari at the troll meeting in the Rise of the Zandalari patch 4.1 trailer.


Back in the written up patch lore for 4.2, it was stated that a prophet named Zul was the one who called that shot.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
13395
11/19/2012 05:46 AMPosted by Draile
It completely disregarded the point that Arthas was willing to kill his good friend and ally for the sake of killing another.


He still left Muradin for dead, so I wouldn't say that plot point was completely disregarded.

11/19/2012 05:46 AMPosted by Draile
Back in the written up patch lore for 4.2, it was stated that a prophet named Zul was the one who called that shot.


You mean 4.1, not 4.2 which was the Firelands patch. Anyways, Vol'jin refers to Rastakhan in a dialogue sequence outside of Zul'Aman, which was also introduced in 4.1. While the writeup for 4.1 said the Zandalari were following the ideas of Prophet Zul.

I don't believe there is any reason why both can't be true. Zul is some sort of spiritual leader who originated the idea of uniting the clans, and Rastakhan is still the tribe's political leader and is complicit in this action.
Edited by Falrinn on 11/19/2012 5:56 AM PST
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86 Worgen Warrior
10845
11/18/2012 09:22 PMPosted by Draile
I think having Muradin survive was just a stupid plot twist they brought in for the sake of bringing that character back. As good of a character as he was, he should have stayed dead.


The stupid plot twist be damned, he was a lot cooler than Magni was as a character.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
4.1 was the troll patch. 4.2 was Firelands.

It's fine if Zandalari do an about face in Stranglethorn. The ones currently there could have been sent there to stop a revival, before the Cataclysm hit, but had been recalled after it did. News doesn't necessarily travel quickly in WoW, you know? Doesn't address the question whether or not Blizzard intended for the Zandalari to be villians the entire time, but there is at least some rationale for why things are in the game.

As for friendly npcs, I subbed after 4.0. I never did the original ZG. I did however quest in Zul'drak and there are Zandalari npcs there as well as friendly Ioa.
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11/19/2012 05:55 AMPosted by Falrinn
He still left Muradin for dead, so I wouldn't say that plot point was completely disregarded.


I would ._.

The less DragonBall Z in this game the better.



11/19/2012 05:55 AMPosted by Falrinn
You mean 4.1, not 4.2 which was the Firelands patch.


My bad



Anyways, Vol'jin refers to Rastakhan in a dialogue sequence outside of Zul'Aman, which was also introduced in 4.1. While the writeup for 4.1 said the Zandalari were following the ideas of Prophet Zul.

I don't believe there is any reason why both can't be true. Zul is some sort of spiritual leader who originated the idea of uniting the clans, and Rastakhan is still the tribe's political leader and is complicit in this action.


I honestly just don't see anything major coming from a character named Rastakahn.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
13395
It's fine if Zandalari do an about face in Stranglethorn. The ones currently there could have been sent there to stop a revival, before the Cataclysm hit, but had been recalled after it did. News doesn't necessarily travel quickly in WoW, you know? Doesn't address the question whether or not Blizzard intended for the Zandalari to be villians the entire time, but there is at least some rationale for why things are in the game.

As for friendly npcs, I subbed after 4.0. I never did the original ZG. I did however quest in Zul'drak and there are Zandalari npcs there as well as friendly Ioa.


If you played 4.1 while it was still in the early stages of the PTR, it's pretty obvious that Blizzard intended the Zandalari to be protagonists, at least within the context of the remade Zul'Grurub.

In the first few builds pretty much all the Darkspear NPC's in the level 85 Stranglethron questline and Zul'grurub we see now were instead identified as Zandalari (with the obvious exception of Vol'jin, who replaced the role an otherwise insignificant ambassador). It wasn't until a couple builds in that this was corrected.

This combined with the fact that friendly Zandalari NPCs are present in the regular questing tells me that it's pretty obvious Blizzard did not always intend for them to be antagonists. This was a decision made after 4.1 was already well under development, most likely specifically because of the Troll story arc they were creating for MoP (which would of been in the early stages of development at the time).

11/19/2012 06:52 AMPosted by Draile
I honestly just don't see anything major coming from a character named Rastakahn.


Regardless of his name, he's the established leader of the Zandalari. For Blizzard to conclude such a major Zandalari story arc without having him play any role would be odd to say the least.
Edited by Falrinn on 11/19/2012 7:23 AM PST
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