[N] 10-man Garalon - How many healers?

90 Pandaren Shaman
Heya Healing forums!

So, after four grueling hours and a multitude of adjustments, we finally managed to down Garalon- post nerf to enrage timer.

We ended up being forced to do two-healing, without a ton of stacking (so ouch for me) and with four (or was it five?) total kiters. It felt- messy. And I swear my mana pool had a hole in the bottom, it was not pretty!

It was also rough on my ego; after four hours, I was not at my best, but there was not a single attempt when our awesome holy pally didn't do at least 15% more healing than I did; he was usually floating between 70-90k HPS, and it was only towards the end that I pushed it from 45k up to 50k, usually floating between 47-52K per attempt.

He was using his lower item level blue PVP set that gives him awesome PVE set bonuses- 10% more healing to Holy Shock, 4 piece is 1 holy power every time you do a 3 holy power Word of Glower (or for him, Eternal Flame.) I am around 8 ilvls beneath him, though not with his blue PVP gear- in this case, I probably had more int/spirit/secondaries, but he was kicking my numbers to the curb!

My own PVP set has... no use to PVE. (SWG is now also stun/fear immunity, lowers the CD on spell reflect totem)

I was trying to use my cooldowns on cooldown, though it was hard to fit in Ascendance because we were stacked, but VERY MOBILE for much of ALL THE TIME; still, I tried. I don't know. This whole fight was just really tough for me.

I feel like I might as well climb onto my paladin's shoulders and shout to the world that I am inept and must be carried through content. It's very disheartening. Is he just ridiculous with his numbers, or am I just really bad??

Looking at the logs, I KNOW I can improve my earth shield numbers- I was trying to keep it on the kiter for additional healing, but I was more concerned with staying in range of the rest of the group, and the kiter often did not fulfill that qualification. That's one big area I need to fix, 50% is not okay. I have improved on my riptide usage, which is good I guess...

Here are said logs. Tear me apart please. I'm trying, but I am not doing well enough.

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90 Orc Shaman
I'll try to look at logs later, but the general consensus is that if you have a monk, 2 healing won't be an issue.

non-monk 2 healing can be a bit harder for a first kill.

personally as a shaman, this is the one fight that I hate the most. Relative to the other fights in tier 14, this is probably the worst of them all for a shaman. you are right in that ascendance is a bit tough to use. dont bother with healing rain at all. use chain heal on the group that is clumped up moving around the legs. use riptide on cd (i don't personally like the glyph even though this would seem like the ideal fight for it. I tried it a few times and... I didn't enjoy the playstyle that much). I abuse / abused GHW / HW a LOT. Oh and HST on CD every single time its up.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
Hrm. Healing Rain was my top heal; I tried to throw it at whatever leg people were on. Maybe that's why I was so HORRIBLY AGONIZINGLY OOM?
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90 Orc Shaman
Well if you are using healing rain, most likely it wont ever hit 3 targets at all (the two tanking the swipes + your pheromone guy). Because you will have 1 or 2 people continuing to swap in with the pheromone target i am sure those 1 or 2 people wont be in the rain. Melee will continue moving more, your ranged might be there the whole time.

And then you have to consider not everyone will be in the rain for its entire duration (because of possibly moving to another leg etc).

All in all, I just don't think healing rain is worth it on the fight. It is terribly expensive and only should really be used if it can hit near 7+ targets for its entire duration (like feng fire phase etc).

IIRC my breakdown is something like GHW, HST, HTT, and riptide (not necessarily in that order) and I never have mana issues or anything like that (even when I was much less geared than I am now).
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90 Pandaren Shaman
*shrug* Hell, I'll try it! Thanks for the tip. :) I'm also going to work on my ES uptime; on our kill, it was only 50%, which is terribad. Chain heal has felt like it's been hitting for peanuts, but my gear is better than last time I tried to use it a lot.
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90 Orc Shaman
Yeah my ES uptime is pretty bad on garalon as well (usually around 70%). I mean I am usually a pheromones person but still. Its super useful not for the healing it does, but rather the 20% healing boost it gives.
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90 Goblin Shaman
we 3 heal it, however we have the 2 tanks and 2 healers kite so half the time is 2 healers. then again one of our healers is a monk and i cant keep up during this fight, at all.
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100 Troll Druid
Two healed it. The needed constant HPS is pretty high though. But if your healers are two healing MSV (as they should be) you should be okay.

Me and a pally - #35th WOL

Edited by Moophious on 11/18/2012 7:50 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
If you are two healing Garalon one of the healers should be assigned to blanket healing and the other on spot healing.

The best healers for blanket healing is priest or monk. Pally shaman or druid can do the same job if and only if all your dps are stacked.

Regardless of what you do, the blanket healer will always do more healing than the spot healer because blanket healing is simply more efficient in that fight, meaning the spot healer will spend the same amount of mana doing less healing simply because of the constant raid wide damage pattern. It by no means can tell you which healer did better because it's just how the healing assignment works.


Me and monk on Garalon:
I did nothing but spot healing, and he did nothing but renewing mist + uplift blanketing.

Same setup for Elegon:
As you can see different healing assignments brings out tremendous output differences.
Edited by Saih on 11/17/2012 11:06 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
We did it with 3 healers, but it was horrendously aweful.
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100 Night Elf Druid
Unless one of those healers is a Monk, the incoming damage is hard to deal with due to the spread of players and the nature of the damage intake (ie ensuring that people are high enough to survive a crush, plus a few ticks of Pheromones while you're stunned) without running OOM 3 minutes into the fight.

We do it with 3 healers and usually come in pretty close to the enrage, though are never at the risk of dying. All 3 healers plus a hunter rotate the pheromones to allow other DPS to focus on damage. Actually, our first kill was done with the 2 swipe soakers + 2 healers and it was silly, but surprisingly effective (even if Teamspeak was filled with "GET AWAY FROM ME" "YOU'RE TOO CLOSE" "MOVE MOVE MOVE" for 7 minutes).

For our group, I think we can actually 2-heal it now (the extra DPS will probably shave off a crush or two), but as the first kill, we didn't have the DPS or the heals to do it within the original 6 minute timer.
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90 Dwarf Priest
If you do Garalon with three healers and are missing the enrage, put one of the healers into the kiting rotation. They'll be range-gimped for healing while kiting but should help your DPS out a ton. 2-healing it will depend on gear and the types of healers used.

Garalon obviously favors healers with tools to heal spread-out people unless you are running a ranged-heavy group and can manage to clump up somewhere as Garalon moves around.
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90 Tauren Druid
11/17/2012 11:34 PMPosted by Meddle
If you do Garalon with three healers and are missing the enrage, put one of the healers into the kiting rotation. They'll be range-gimped for healing while kiting but should help your DPS out a ton. 2-healing it will depend on gear and the types of healers used.

Pretty much this. Assuming you lust off the start, it's also best to have a healer be the initial kiter so that all dps are at their full potential for the duration of bloodlust.

We ended up having some hps issues when it was the kite-healer's second turn in the rotation, so we switched a ranged dps into kiting that turn
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100 Orc Shaman
We 2 heal, seems to work out better, nice short fight. Things can get tricky some times, but staggering cd's and mana management is key.
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90 Pandaren Monk
We 3 heal it, with priest/shaman/monk. Our priest kites and heals the tanks/kiters, while myself and the shaman focus on blanketing the raid. It's not a bad setup if your dps is able to keep you from dying to enrage.

I know our shaman feels the same way you do, Kynrith. I wouldn't fret too much about it. That fight in particular isn't exactly designed to be very friendly for your aoe heals as a shaman.
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90 Pandaren Priest
We 2 heal with pally on pheromones and I heal the raid as holy. I'm pretty much oom by the end.
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90 Draenei Shaman
Our attempts are two-healed (rshaman/disc priest). We’ve hitting the enrage timer at 1%! However, my hps are over 70k and I had a 10 million more in healing than your kill. Mana was tight, but not all that bad. I’m on the raid, while our priest is on the tanks and kiters.

You may have been experiencing mana issues because your second highest heal was Greater Heal. THAT will drain your mana. Greater Heal was 2% of my healing versus 18% of yours.

Ascendance is very helpful for this fight, just as healing rain. You just have to be strategic about it. It was 5% of my healing.

I noticed that you’re stacking haste. There’s been lots of discussion about the second haste breakpoint being broken and most rshamans aren't trying to hit it, at this point. Besides, you’d only be getting the extra tick of HST and HTT (which looking at your logs, you’re not getting due to the bug, you’re still only getting 35 ticks like the rest of us with the 871 breakpoint). I would think you’d benefit more from mastery and crit, for both throughput and regen.

For Garalon, I’d definitely spec into Primal Elementalist. That’s a 10% boost to your healing! Since there’s so much raid damage going out, it’s huge. However, remember after a crush, you’ll need to recast Reinforce/Empower, the channeled spell for the corresponding elemental (which kinda sucks ). I have it macro-ed to the same action button as my totem.
If you’re going to glyph Totemic Recall, use it (I didn’t notice any usage during your kill). Otherwise, grab Chain Heal since people tend to spread or healing wave to help heal yourself.

Reinforce how important it is for the raid to stay stacked around a leg, which I’m assuming is your case since you top heal was healing rain. Between healing rains, I was keeping ES on a dps with riptide and chain healing off of them for the buffed healing.

I enjoy this fight – if our dps could squeeze out just an extra 1% deeps. However, great job on your kill!

Edit: Typos

Edit #2 : You may also want to post in the shaman forum to ask specifically about healing input from a rshaman perspective, as opposed to just posting it in healing. Although the feedback about the number of healers for Garalon is helpful from all healing specs, you go on and ask for an analysis of your logs, you may get more rshaman feedback in the shaman forum. Just a suggestion :) Best of luck!
Edited by Mavalynn on 11/20/2012 1:03 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
We tried a lot of different iterations and finally 3 healed it for the win. Shaman/Monk/Druid

The Monk obviously did something like 76K+ HPS and the druid significantly less than that, and then me even less so.

I definitely think of myself as utility over heals in this fight. :P I healed the kiter team (blood dk + guardian druid soaker, resto druid, myself) and the druid did as well. The monk healed everyone else.

Basically I kept my HST on cd and tossed out Riptides when I could, but my real focus was on surviving, making sure the kiting was as clean as possible, and doing utilities like healing tide, mana tide for the other healers, stormlash, lust, etc.
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90 Night Elf Druid
Ya having a monk healer with anything is good because they are stupidly way OP right now lol. But lets talk about balanced healers. This fight you want at least one healer that can spread the Pheromones. I did this the other day and still had any where from 60-75K HPS each attempt we did. So if you two heal it they have to be good healers other wise you may have to three heal it.
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1 Night Elf Druid
Finally got him down two healing with a resto druid (me) and disc priest. It was extremely tight on mana and there were some frustrating times when I felt like I was doing all I could do and people were still dropping like rocks, but it was definitely doable if you managed everything carefully (and dps actually met enrage!).

That said, I got to know my rejuv button quite well by the end of it. My mana wasn't too pleased with our new relationship and threatened to leave me a number of times, but at least the boss died. ;)
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