Have you ever "evolved" a character?

1 Human Rogue
0
11/18/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Maoseitun
There is no possible way a Draenei can be a paladin. The Draenei were hiding out or fleeing Draenor when the Order of the Silver Hand was formed. The Draenei had been isolated from Azeroth since before the Sundering, over 10,000 years ago and have only recently came to Azeroth. There is no possible way a Draenei could have learned the ways of a paladin.


The difference is that the Draenei are shown to have developed Paladins on their own in the form of Vindicators: Pandaren haven't been shown to do such.

It's actually great that you say this, because despite it being sarcastic, it basically proves Kass right. Draenei, without the influence of the humans or the Alliance, were able to create paladins. Pandaren were not.

While it's possible that a Pandaren could learn / be taught to be a paladin, Pandaria has been a part of the known world for like.. under a month. Paladin training will take at least a few years.
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90 Dwarf Mage
12450
11/18/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Hallinton
The difference is that the Draenei are shown to have developed Paladins on their own in the form of Vindicators: Pandaren haven't been shown to do such.


Wording is more what I was emphasizing by that post.

11/18/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Hallinton
It's actually great that you say this, because despite it being sarcastic, it basically proves Kass right. Draenei, without the influence of the humans or the Alliance, were able to create paladins. Pandaren were not.


But it doesn't, as the Wandering Isle null any idea that a pandaren could not have developed traits and abilities of a paladin.

11/18/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Hallinton
While it's possible that a Pandaren could learn / be taught to be a paladin, Pandaria has been a part of the known world for like.. under a month. Paladin training will take at least a few years.


You haven't been on the Wandering Isle?

I was waiting for that. Yes Chen has been rambling across Azeroth. But, a couple of points to note. Unless I'm forgetting something, he never came across the alliance. The only campaigns I remember him being a part of in Warcraft 3 were horde ones. Secondly. Chen was and still is a monk. More specifically, a brewmaster monk. He never learned the ways of the paladin. Try again.


Both of you are off your lore game.

Poor show.

I depart from the forum for a few months and no one learns how to read up on current lore. Shame shame shame.

To give a brief course on why it's possible for a pandaren to be a paladin:

Pandaren are not exclusively from Pandaria, years and years ago after the Sundering the pandaren explorer Liu Lang set out on the sea to see what is left of the world. He journeyed on the back of Shen-zin Su, a dragon turtle who had been a companion of Liu Lang.

Every few years or so, Liu Lang would return to Pandaria for the sheer fact Shen-zin Su would always return to the beach he was born upon. And every few years he would take more pandaren with him until eventually he stopped returning. Shen-zin Su lived beyond the death of his old friend, becoming a massive turtle that roams the seas and carries upon its back those pandaren who descended from the ones accompanying Liu Lang's original journeys.

These pandaren are those afflicted by a wanderlust who will journey off the massive turtle and explore the lands of Azeroth.

And these pandaren are also the ones humans, elves, etc. have dealt with previously.

Since these pandaren are also naturally inquisitive, there exists the possibility of pandaren learning the ways of the Light and eventually becoming paladins.

Because, while the Pandaria pandaren have been around for a month, the Wandering Isle pandaren have been exploring for 10,000 years.

Also, this schooling brought to you by Silverflame.
Edited by Maoseitun on 11/18/2012 6:12 PM PST
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29 Draenei Shaman
12355
Because, while the Pandaria pandaren have been around for a month, the Wandering Isle pandaren have been exploring for 10,000 years.


And yet you still can't name ONE pandaren that learnt the ways of the paladin. You can't name one pandaren that had contact with the alliance. You can only post supposition with no proof to back your claims.

Come on Silver, you can do better than that.
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90 Dwarf Mage
12450
11/18/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Kassalla
And yet you still can't name ONE pandaren that learnt the ways of the paladin.


I'm sorry, I thought RP was about creating characters that are interesting. Not being the boring, same old same old class that they rolled. Or that one can't be unique in a good way. Suppose Hall should stop RPing a Demon Hunter. Way too unique.

11/18/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Kassalla
You can't name one pandaren that had contact with the alliance.


Chen still - he is a neutral character, fyi.

http://www.wowpedia.org/File:ChenArt.jpg?c=1

The master from the TCG.

11/18/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Kassalla
You can only post supposition with no proof to back your claims.


I can post the fact logic can say that it is neither impossible nor improbable for a pandaren to become a paladin.

Instead of saying all pandaren only come from Pandaria.

Like some people.

11/18/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Kassalla
Come on Silver, you can do better than that.


Come on, Kass. You can be more close-minded than this.
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90 Human Paladin
9155
11/18/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Kassalla
Because, while the Pandaria pandaren have been around for a month, the Wandering Isle pandaren have been exploring for 10,000 years.


And yet you still can't name ONE pandaren that learnt the ways of the paladin. You can't name one pandaren that had contact with the alliance. You can only post supposition with no proof to back your claims.

Come on Silver, you can do better than that.


Do we have a lore character gnome that is also a priest?

Just because Blizzard doesn't tell stories about something, doesn't mean it didn't happen or couldn't have happened. I knew people RPing gnome Light-wielders -before- it happened officially; the only thing sticky about that to me was whether or not gnomes could even channel Light at all. Turns out they can.

The ONLY pandaren wanderer we know of is Chen, yet there were others, by Blizzard's own word. I just don't see how this is 'not possible'.
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90 Troll Shaman
9080
11/18/2012 06:25 PMPosted by Maoseitun
I can post the fact logic can say that it is neither impossible nor improbable for a pandaren to become a paladin.


it's not impossible but it is improbable

if a pandaren were to be a paladin it would be a one in a million shot

and by effect be mary-sue

11/18/2012 06:25 PMPosted by Maoseitun
I'm sorry, I thought RP was about creating characters that are interesting. Not being the boring, same old same old class that they rolled. Or that one can't be unique in a good way


but rp shouldn't be lore breaking >.>
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90 Human Paladin
9155
it's not impossible but it is improbable

if a pandaren were to be a paladin it would be a one in a million shot

and by effect be mary-sue


I call shenanigans.

It depends on how it is played. If it's played to garner attention, mary sue. If it's played to be 'OMG LOOK HOW RIDICULOUS AWESOME THIS PANDA IS AT DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN FIGHT AND CAST LIGHT YEA,' mary sue.

However, if the OP wants to explore the idea of a Pandaren warrior (or priest) becoming so fascinated, or enamored by, the ways of the Alliance's paladins that he, himself, chooses to pursue that path- potentially also placing it ABOVE the heritage he left behind when he left to wander- I can see that as a very valid and interesting character path, that does not equate to being a Mary Sue or Gary Stu.

11/18/2012 06:30 PMPosted by Dragonson
but rp shouldn't be lore breaking >.>


Unlikely is not the same as lore breaking.

Hell, I can even see playing a Pandaren who -loves- the idea of being a paladin, but is just plain no good at it- for a humor character. I think that could be potentially well done and HILLARIOUS.
Edited by Dyna on 11/18/2012 6:41 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Mage
12450
11/18/2012 06:30 PMPosted by Dragonson
it's not impossible but it is improbable


Given the fact there are, and were, quite a few pandaren on Shen-zin Su, there is a high probability that more than a few journeyed off the giant turtle and explored Alliance lands. Given the innate curiosity of those on board already, it's possible a few were interested in learning the ways of the Light - and that they took it a step further and became warriors of the Light.

11/18/2012 06:30 PMPosted by Dragonson
and by effect be mary-sue


This term is bandied about way too effing much. A pandaren being a paladin is not a Mary Sue. Similar to gnome paladins and worgen paladins. It's logical that a pandaren from the Wandering Isle, who may be studying the ways of a pandaren priest, journeyed amongst the Alliance and took up a more martial path.

11/18/2012 06:30 PMPosted by Dragonson
but rp shouldn't be lore breaking >.>


It doesn't break lore.

Breaking lore is RPing as a human from our world suddenly appearing in Azeroth.

There is nothing in lore that says it is impossible or improbable for a pandaren to be a paladin. It's quite foolish to think it's breaking lore by RPing this.

11/18/2012 06:38 PMPosted by Dyna
However, if the OP wants to explore the idea of a Pandaren warrior (or priest) becoming so fascinated, or enamored by, the ways of the Alliance's paladins that he, himself, chooses to pursue that path- potentially also placing it ABOVE the heritage he left behind when he left to wander- I can see that as a very valid and interesting character path, that does not equate to being a Mary Sue or Gary Stu.


Exactly.
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90 Troll Shaman
9080
ok i'm going to say this the way i've said it before

11/18/2012 06:40 PMPosted by Maoseitun
Given the fact there are, and were, quite a few pandaren on Shen-zin Su, there is a high probability that more than a few journeyed off the giant turtle and explored Alliance lands. Given the innate curiosity of those on board already, it's possible a few were interested in learning the ways of the Light - and that they took it a step further and became warriors of the Light.


has it been shown in lore?

no, not one bit

you're making up a story for your character that HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN IN LORE

and you're telling me that it isn't mary sue

if it were to happen it would be like sir zeliek

A ONE IN A MILLION SHOT

and you're telling me it isn't mary sue

ok

so it isn't mary sue

special snowflake sound any better?

by saying you're a pandaren who learned the ways of the paladin because you ventured to alliance lands and were interested in it is making lore to something you don't have any right to add lore to

you are not blizzard

even chen stormstout finding the horde in W3 is a one in a million shot

the pandaren were said to be very reclusive and kept to themselves once they set foot off of shen-zin-su

and you say you can be a pandaren who was taught by the alliance?

like i said, possible, but NOT PROBABLE
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90 Dwarf Mage
12450
11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
has it been shown in lore?


If you follow Blizzard's lore to the letter. Prepare to hate anything close to logical and comprehensive story.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
you're making up a story for your character that HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN IN LORE


My mistake, I thought we were RPers who create characters who exist in this world but are not a part of the written lore. I guess we're now Blizzard writers...

... and we're already doing 10x better.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
and you're telling me that it isn't mary sue


It's not. Mary Sue would be a character who is all powerful, flawless, perfect, and unique for the sake of being unique. A pandaren being RPed as a paladin who has become one because of his or her past experiences amongst the Alliance have driven them to a new way of life and one they find fulfilling and filled with righteousness and joy is not a Mary Sue.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
if it were to happen it would be like sir zeliek


Nope.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
A ONE IN A MILLION SHOT


Nope.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
special snowflake sound any better?


Nope.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
by saying you're a pandaren who learned the ways of the paladin because you ventured to alliance lands and were interested in it is making lore to something you don't have any right to add lore to


By RPing at all we're making lore to something we don't have any right to add lore to. All RP guilds? Non-existent in lore. All RP characters? Non-existent in lore. All RP ever? Non-existent in lore. If you want to get down to it, by lore, we should all be super powerful demi gods who slay world-shattering monstrosities and still have time to laze around in our capital of choice and talk crap to other people.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
you are not blizzard


Excellent observation.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
even chen stormstout finding the horde in W3 is a one in a million shot


Not really.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
the pandaren were said to be very reclusive and kept to themselves once they set foot off of shen-zin-su


Where does it say this?

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
and you say you can be a pandaren who was taught by the alliance?


Can be.

11/18/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Dragonson
like i said, possible, but NOT PROBABLE


Nope, it's both.
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72 Blood Elf Mage
0
For example, I may level this character to 85, then make this character become a paladin.

The story: after witnessing the dreary state that Azeroth is in after experiencing outland, northrend, and the whole deathwing escapade he sees that he may need to do more than just heal and support. Especially with the Horde conflict coming up, he realizes that to truly help his people he needs to join a paladin order and train to become a paladin to even further his powers and faith in the light.

Thoughts? Ever done something similar?


Yes, though most of my characters tend to devolve rather than evolve... because I am mean to my characters.

I have a paladin that through an unfortunate series of circumstances lost her ability to wield the Light. Now she is a battlefield medic, still trying to retain her usefulness to the Alliance military while regaining her power over the Light.

Or a former paladin (I just love hurting those pure types :<) that reverted from a paladin to a priest due to an injury that left him with a serious, permanent limp. Then he further moved away from paladinlyness when his family was killed and he began caring only for himself - drawing on shadow for personal power rather than using the Light to help others.

I have a couple others, though their stories pretty much go was a happy human then BAM! killed and resurrected into undead (once I got bored with them or their storyline completed).

Of course these were forum characters. As far as a Pandaren priest becoming a paladin... I'm sure you know better than to just hit 85 and go "IMA PALADIN NAO!" Paladins are more than priests with plate. The mindset is different, whether they be a dwarf or tauren or what have you. I would RP long and seriously about your Pandaren's interactions with paladins of other races before you jump ship. And even then, I would hesitate to call your pandaren a full-fledged paladin.

Trained by paladins with paladin-like abilities? Sure, as long as it is RPed well.
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90 Human Death Knight
4840
Have any of my characters evolved? Sure have, was walking through stormwind one day and suddenly 'BAM' my dwarf was now a Charizard...wait wut?
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Have any of my characters evolved? Yes, Kal'tok here was once a young axe-wielding Warrior but shortly after joining the Blackmarket Cartel he was sent on a couple of missions by an Orc Shaman who outranked him. In Ashenvale he admired it's beauty and respected it's strength, and when he had to go to Felwood something inside of him wanted to help the land, so he helped the Druids there before going to Moonglade to train in Druidism.
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90 Human Mage
6845
This arguing over something that does not exist in game is futile. While I can see the appeal of the idea of a Pandaren becoming a paladin, I fail to understand why you can't go with the wonderful newness of the Pandaren as they are?

Why do you wish to add a class that would totally be outside the culture and mindset of the Pandaren? Game mechanics aside for a moment, the only time we have seen Pandaren in the cities and as trainers and wanderers from wherever they came from (Pandaria or the turtle), has been only in very recent times.

I do not see the Pandaren using the Light as other priests do. Forget game mechanics, they do not equal lore. I see them using their own way of magic and faith based healing. They do not worship the Light, but beings like the Jade Serpent, White Tiger, Red Crane. Could these beings represent some form of the Light? That is a whole new arguement and I am sure those who love to ask the developers if Elune is a Naaru will jump all over it.

What I see here in the idea of the OP, is someway to make the character unique and special. But add some logic here a little bit. A Pandaren turning to the Light as a faith would be about as foreign to their culture as a modern day hamburger loving American who takes up the culinary habits of some culture that eats bugs and raw monkey brains.

Possible? Yes, But so unlikely. We are talking about a mindset that is thousands of years in the making. I can see him "studying" paladins, learning about them and exploring their ways as a Loremaster. Out of curiousity and genuine thirst for knowledge. A way to be around and with paladins and exchanging cultural information. Enjoying philosophical debates and learning from each other. But actually becoming one? No...just no...it does not make sense.

When Blizzard started opening up more class choices to the players who wanted them I knew this would happen. I think it makes for the loss of unuqueness that certain races have over others. I think it is pandering to the whining of the players who want to do as many different race/class combos as they can. Regardless of lore, there will always be those who want to twist and bend it to make their own characters different.

I understand this, I really do. It's human nature to want to be yourself in a world full of dull and generic stereotypes. But it is also basic psychology to want to fit in, to be accepted as you are and not forced into a mold. This is what makes humans unique and separate from animals. You don't see a dog trying to become a human, nor a cat trying to become a dog.

So please, stop trying to make a Pandaren anything other than Pandaren. Allow the race to be unique in itself and not just another one of the races that become "paladins" because you think paladins are the best class in the game.
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90 Dwarf Mage
12450
Mara, I heartily disagree. It isn't creating a character who is unique for the sake of being unique. But I'm looking at it in a realistic sort of way.

Let's say a pandaren priest has been wandering amongst the Alliance since vanilla. He or she has witnessed everything from Ragnaros to Deathwing, and all the tragedies in between. I could see most having their faith shaken by many of the horrors, and I don't see how it makes no sense that this pandaren might have had their faith shaken and wonder about the power of the Celestials to allow so much death - and then, it might be a moment of epiphany wherein the pandaren begins to look to friends of other faiths and see the strength the Light gives them.

And then you have an interesting character concept with Pandaria - a pandaren paladin trying to reconcile his newfound faith his with culture.

A damn sight more interesting character concept to explore than 'Generic pandaren #53'.
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29 Draenei Shaman
12355
11/19/2012 12:29 PMPosted by Maoseitun
A damn sight more interesting character concept to explore than 'Generic pandaren #53'.


Yet in the real world, you are just a generic human. You don't have horns or a tail, you don't use magic on a regular basis. If you want to go somewhere, you walk, or get in a car and drive there. You don't walk outside your door and whistle for your own personal gryphon to fly you where you need to go.

Does that make you a boring person? No. Because everyone in the western world is like you. It's our personalities and what we do with our lives that make us interesting and different in the real world.

There almost as many potential stories in wow as there are stars in the sky without having to break lore or force characters into roles that weren't the original intention of the blizzard designers. All it takes is a little imagination.
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36 Undead Priest
3990
If you're all done arguing about something and never changing your opinion, how about we answer the OP instead of derailing this thread?
Personally, I have evolved my characters. My rogue goblin became a priest after having a near death experience. I feel it really adds more spice to a character if you wish to not only try out a new class but continuing to RP that character.
Now can we stop derailing this thread?
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83 Blood Elf Warlock
9075
There are no Pandaren paladins.

Theoretically, yes, a Pandaren that had sufficient interest in the Light (or An'she...that's the right one, I hope?) could undertake training, provided they found a willing tutor. But that's the sort of thing that would take a long time. You can't just develop a brand new skill over the course of a few weeks. It would take years of training. A priest lacks in martial skill, so they'd have to learn how to handle a weapon properly, and hone their bodies to the point where they'd be able to wear armor. They'd also have to learn how to use the Light (or how to use An'she's blessings, or however the Sunwalkers work), and then how to wield it properly. Then they'd have to learn the tenents of the faith and such.

It's not something you can just 'decide' your character is. Not this early given that Pandaria's only been accessable for a couple of months.
Edited by Seyl on 11/19/2012 2:06 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Mage
12450
11/19/2012 01:36 PMPosted by Kassalla
Yet in the real world, you are just a generic human.


Which is why I RP. So I can throw fireballs.

I don't RP a baker, or a vintner.

Does that make you a boring person? No. Because everyone in the western world is like you. It's our personalities and what we do with our lives that make us interesting and different in the real world.


Never said it was boring. Said it was interesting. Vast difference. And to personality - yes, personality is great, but that's the other thing. All pandaren seem to have the exact same personality - one that is conflicted in trying to reconcile their new faith with their old faith, their new way of life with the old ways, is much more interesting than cheerful and amicable pandaren #76.

There almost as many potential stories in wow as there are stars in the sky without having to break lore or force characters into roles that weren't the original intention of the blizzard designers. All it takes is a little imagination.


... and yet you're arguing against imagination? A person has an imaginative concept and one that isn't him asking if he can be the son of kings and queens, or the lover of gods and goddesses. It's a pandaren choosing to be a paladin.

My god alert the presses! This is the most vile breach of lore since tauren paladins!

You aren't breaking lore. You aren't forcing a character into a role. If he's doing what he claims, having his character come into this after thought and witnessing so much, it's a natural evolution.

You're just saying it's forced because you're so adamantly against it.

11/19/2012 02:05 PMPosted by Seyl
It's not something you can just 'decide' your character is. Not this early given that Pandaria's only been accessable for a couple of months.


... Once again.

The Wandering Isle has been going around all of Azeroth for around 10,000 years. Pandaren have been exploring Azeroth for 10,000 years. Just the Pandaria pandaren who weren't on the Isle are new to this world.
Edited by Maoseitun on 11/19/2012 2:08 PM PST
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83 Blood Elf Warlock
9075

It's not something you can just 'decide' your character is. Not this early given that Pandaria's only been accessable for a couple of months.


... Once again.

The Wandering Isle has been going around all of Azeroth for around 10,000 years. Pandaren have been exploring Azeroth for 10,000 years. Just the Pandaria pandaren who weren't on the Isle are new to this world.


If any Pandaren was sufficiently interested and even around in the first place to learn this kind of thing, it would be the kind of thing they would take back to their people. There would be a mentioning of it, even if only in passing, and even if they were ridiculed for doing so (which I doubt, given Pandaren culture)

But there has not.

Again, I'm not saying that it could never happen. I'm saying that since there is no precedent at ALL for Pandaren paladins, that if a Pandaren actually decided they wanted to become one, then they'd have to a) find a teacher and b) spend a long time learning how. It's not the sort of thing you can learn in a mere two months.

Lore-wise, the closest thing you can get to a Pandaren paladin is a monk. Saying that 'Oh, well, blizzard hasn't said there never has been a Pandaren paladin, so it's ok!' is weak logic, because they havn't said there has been one either. That's like saying 'Oh, well Blizzard hasn't specifically stated that the San'layn are all dead so this means I can RP as one!'
Edited by Seyl on 11/19/2012 2:17 PM PST
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