Stamina

90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Runtime, I do 10m normals. I'm not raiding in 25m content or heroic content. Fully raid buffed, I have about 740k HP. There are two fights in vaults where I don't have the minimum shield for pretty much every death strike: Elegon and the final boss. Elegon I want stamina anyway because so much of the damage is magic, and the final boss I just end up being suboptimally geared for.

More stamina gives me more control over my own health, gives more reaction time to healers, and improves my utility powers. I consider that win over the mana efficiency gained from mastery.
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64 Draenei Death Knight
10235
11/18/2012 09:51 PMPosted by Krinu
More stamina gives me more control over my own health, gives more reaction time to healers, and improves my utility powers. I consider that win over the mana efficiency gained from mastery.


To be honest, I dont even gear for mana efficiency. A tank doesn't die to healer attrition without a good amount of aoe healing as well. So far, the only boss on 10s I would say really hits hard is wind lord P2. Other than that, yes you dont really go over min heal that much.
Edited by Runtime on 11/18/2012 10:46 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
11/18/2012 04:44 PMPosted by Khahan


I'm pretty sure that arguing stamina is more effective at reducing damage because you take more damage isn't going to get you very far. :p


Only with regards to DK blood tanks due to blood shield

I'm curious, how much of this discussion about stam levels applies equally to warrior tanks? Typically war/pally share most of the basic stuff. There's usually some minute differences (like in DS going for more mastery after ctc cap or not depending on the class). Does the general theme of this discussion apply equally to all shield tanks?


It applies to all tanks. Health doesn't reduce damage, but it allows healers greater reaction time in dealing with your damage.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
9405
11/17/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Mnemonic
If you're dying in a raid it's because your healers are not healing you (for any number of reasons.) The way you gem and enchant your gear, while not meaningless, still has very little to do with your survival.


No mention of active mitigation. If you're dying in raids it's more likely you're killing yourself but not pressing the right buttons.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
11/18/2012 03:44 PMPosted by Kickgruntler


Playing devil's advocate here, but gemming for stamina at the expense of other stats increases the amount of raw damage you take, increasing your blood shields.


It depends on how much damage was taken as to whether it maths out to be more damage reduction or not. Gives me a headache thinking about it.


hahahaha

11/18/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Nerfheals
gemming for stamina at the expense of other stats increases the amount of raw damage you take, increasing your blood shields.


I'm pretty sure that arguing stamina is more effective at reducing damage because you take more damage isn't going to get you very far. :p


Well, that's why I said that one thing that you didn't include in the quote of me.
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1 Pandaren Rogue
0
I personally avoid getting extra stamina. The only boss I've faced so far that hits hard enough I could see extra stamina being useful for is Bladelord. That 2nd Overwhelming Assault or whatever hits really hard. Buuuut...the bear with 75k less health than me survived it with cooldowns after getting gibbed the first time.

Gem for hit in blue sockets imo. Use hit enchant on cloak instead of stam too.


This I'd agree with. As a Blood DK, I have no issues even taking 3. I'm at 616k unbuffed (and no, I'm not stacking stam - I have enough mastery for 140% blood shield). The 2nd Overwhelming Assault usually brings me down to about 70% health or something, mostly thanks in turn to my high healthpool and blood shield.

My OT though, a prot warrior, struggles to survive 2 assaults without CDs popped. That should be easier for him now, though, with him having acquired a 2nd stam trinket for the fight.

11/18/2012 09:51 PMPosted by Krinu
Fully raid buffed, I have about 740k HP.


Yeah, I doubt that. I don't hit that much raid buffed and I'm better geared/have more stam.
Edited by Seraphimilim on 11/19/2012 11:32 AM PST
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64 Draenei Death Knight
10235
Yeah, I doubt that. I don't hit that much raid buffed and I'm better geared/have more stam.


I have 635k raid buffed stacking mastery. It isnt unreasonable in this expansion that gemming stam and using double stam trinkets would get him to 740k.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Elegon I want stamina anyway because so much of the damage is magic, and the final boss I just end up being suboptimally geared for.


Uh.

If you're taking a significant portion of magical damage on Elegon, you're doing it wrong.
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64 Draenei Death Knight
10235
My OT though, a prot warrior, struggles to survive 2 assaults without CDs popped. That should be easier for him now, though, with him having acquired a 2nd stam trinket for the fight.


If your warrior is having issues on that fight, he is doing it wrong. Press shield block less than 6 seconds before overwhelming strike. win.

11/19/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Slashlove
If you're taking a significant portion of magical damage on Elegon, you're doing it wrong.


Depends on what you consider significant. 27% of the damage i took on my most recent elegon kill was magic damage.
Edited by Runtime on 11/19/2012 2:27 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Depends on what you consider significant. 27% of the damage i took on my most recent elegon kill was magic damage.


The damage that can threaten you is Celestial Breath, and only the last one you take while tanking is actually threatening, there should be no more than 2-3 of them per phase.

Total Annihilation at worst can go off twice while tanking in a phase unless you're far behind on adds, in which case the Berserk may stomp you anyway. This won't even exist on Heroic mode unless it's your turn to take it in the face.

Assuming you're doing this correctly, the majority of magical damage that you may take will be from Discharge explosions on add waves. Frankly, if a tank is dying to those, something is horrifically wrong. A few ticks of Radiating/Stability Flux here and there.
Edited by Slashlove on 11/19/2012 2:50 PM PST
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64 Draenei Death Knight
10235
11/19/2012 03:26 PMPosted by Sparklefever
If your warrior is having issues on that fight, he is doing it wrong. Press shield block less than 6 seconds before overwhelming strike. win.
You can't block Blade Lord's Assault (source: tried it on heroic, 500k Assault to the face). It's completely unavoidable.

However, as a Warrior, you have Shield Wall up for every second Assault that you take without fail. There's literally no reason to not have SW up for it.


Oh, i was going off what our 3rd tank warrior was saying. Not really a reliable source though.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Pretty sure Demo Shout should work for every 2nd Assault anyway.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Yeah, I doubt that. I don't hit that much raid buffed and I'm better geared/have more stam.

11/19/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Runtime
I have 635k raid buffed stacking mastery. It isnt unreasonable in this expansion that gemming stam and using double stam trinkets would get him to 740k.

My raid uses two resto shaman healers. I have 669k or so before their +10% extra health bonus from Ancestral Vigor or whatever it's called.

Uh.

If you're taking a significant portion of magical damage on Elegon, you're doing it wrong.

As a percentage of damage taken, physical attacks are larger. As a "more likely to kill me" measure, his breath attack is nastier. We also have weak DPS, so we usually see 3 annihilations per phase. The healers have to put raid health back so the DPS doesn't all die, which means I'm left without heals for a bit.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
As a percentage of damage taken, physical attacks are larger. As a "more likely to kill me" measure, his breath attack is nastier. We also have weak DPS, so we usually see 3 annihilations per phase. The healers have to put raid health back so the DPS doesn't all die, which means I'm left without heals for a bit.


I don't see how his Breath is in any way more likely to kill you given the counters that are obviously going to be used during it. The high stacks ones are the deadly ones, and it's .... periodic so you can heal during the Breath while haivng 50% more healing, while being a DK, while being able to plan ahead to pretty much negate it anyway through cd's.

I mean, different situations are different, but unless you're having to tank through 15 stacks ....
Edited by Slashlove on 11/19/2012 7:16 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
I routinely hit 15-16 before my co-tank can taunt off. See "weak DPS" mentioned previously.

Tank death really isn't a problem on elegon no matter how I gear it, though. It's mostly DPS screwing up.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
I routinely hit 15-16 before my co-tank can taunt off. See "weak DPS" mentioned previously.

Tank death really isn't a problem on elegon no matter how I gear it, though. It's mostly DPS screwing up.


My condolences :(
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
On the bright side, we killed it last week!

On the down side, I have to do it again tomorrow. Ffffuuu.
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100 Orc Warrior
8950
I have always believed that all the health in the world (of warcraft) wont help you at all if you dont have any metigation. just like all the threat generation stats doesnt mean anything if your not hitting the guy. if you have 600k health and you are not blocking,dodgeing,or parrying any phisical attacks you might as well have 1 health for there won't be a healer that'll be able to keep you up, I dont care how tough you think you are.or you can have 300k health and have proper metigation stats and practically run through dungeons for your healer can work on the proper points like the dps' mistakes of standing in the fire and the occasional crushing blow that you where able to servive, barely but you where saveable for the fact of the metigation. so is it stam or metigarion or a balance of both.
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