How to use Shroud of Reversal

90 Tauren Druid
12115
Hi all

Can I get a detailed description of how Shroud of Reversal should be used, on Feng 10N? Is it possible to interrupt every single Epicentre with it? The guides I've read are vague on the topic.

Today, I was Barrier and the other guy was Shroud, but he said that he would do it when boss casts Fists but he did not gain the ability, most of the time (occasionally he did), what might be going wrong?

I accidentally deleted the log while trying to upload it :X
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
Its not something you use on the boss.

You use it on a player and it copies whatever ability hits them.

Someone (usually the barrier tank on normal and a ranged DPS on heroic) needs to intentionally get hit while the other tank is channeling on you.

And no not every one, its only up for every other one. alternate fist/barrier.

p1 - fist
p2 - flaming spear
p3 - resonance
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90 Human Warlock
17000
11/18/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Autumni
Today, I was Barrier and the other guy was Shroud, but he said that he would do it when boss casts Fists but he did not gain the ability, most of the time (occasionally he did), what might be going wrong?

Make sure you aren't back up against the wall.

IE:

[F][Y])<-wall

F being Feng, Y being You.

We had an issue where if the tank was back up against the wall, Feng's Lightning Fists would seem to miss the tank entirely, thus the other tank couldn't use Shroud on it.
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90 Draenei Warrior
14070
Shroud is screwy but once you get used to it, it becomes easier. Like Demo said, keep in mind that it's a thing you cast on another player, not on the boss. With that in mind, it becomes much easier to just macro it with something like this:

Firstly, focus the other tank, then:
/target focus
/click ExtraActionButton1
/targetlasttarget


That'll cast it on your focus target.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14075
Have your MT use barrier, OT use shroud. MT pulls, wait for Epicenter. MT uses barrier on the first epicenter, then on the first cast of lighting fists after Feng casts epicenter have the OT use this macro;

/target MainTanksName
/click ExtraActionButton1
/targetlasttarget

Make sure the MT gets hit by lightning fists, and you only want to try to copy fists immediately after epicenter has been cast. If you try to copy it from a cast before Feng casts epicenter it will expire by the time you need it.

When you copy it correctly, your extra action button will change icons and turn into lightning fists. To interrupt an epicenter cast with it, you have to use lightning fists during his epicenter cast timer. It's only about 1s so you have to be really quick. Have the OT watch DBM timers and keep your mouse over the button then click it as soon as you see his cast start. If you use lightning fists after he starts doing epicenter it will not interrupt him. If you interrupt him correctly he will spasm covered in lightning.

MT uses barrier on 1, 3, etc epicenters, OT uses shroud on 2, 4, etc. After p1 shroud is mostly used as a DPS increase (spears in p2), although I've read you can use it in p3 to steal arcane resonance he casts on random players.
Edited by Sedrea on 11/18/2012 8:43 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
As far as the 1/3 2/4 thing, always plan to fist 1/3, because sometimes he won't lightning fist. So always fist first if he does it.
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90 Human Paladin
13665
11/18/2012 09:00 AMPosted by Ðemolition
As far as the 1/3 2/4 thing, always plan to fist 1/3, because sometimes he won't lightning fist. So always fist first if he does it.


This. Otherwise he might not Fist, and Barrier will be on cooldown, and you will have no recourse except to blow raid CDs to heal through Epicentre. I have no idea how hard it hits on 10man, but we had to blow raid CDs for a missed one on 25.

11/18/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Autumni
Today, I was Barrier and the other guy was Shroud, but he said that he would do it when boss casts Fists but he did not gain the ability, most of the time (occasionally he did), what might be going wrong?


He was probably accidentally copying the DoT that goes on the tanks. In order to get Lightning Fists, wait until Feng positions himself in an "attack" stance. He'll pause while casting it. You can copy Lighting Fists AFTER the fact (ie: while that person is stunned). Hope they don't screw up and instinctively use a human racial or something to get out of it though!

In phase 2, copy Flaming Spear. It'll help get him out of that phase faster, which is the most dangerous part of the fight unless people are dumb in phase 3. Flaming Spear comes fast, so be channeling on the other tank as the boss finishes his phase change.

In phase 3, copy Arcane Resonance from a ranged who has it. They shouldn't be grouped up with the melee or you'll insta-wipe. Use Arcane Resonance when Feng casts Arcane Velocity (the more players are close to him, the more damage it does). Barrier every 2nd Velocity, and use raid CDs on alternate ones.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8835
The best way to use Shroud, is not at all.
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90 Tauren Druid
12115
11/18/2012 08:32 AMPosted by Sedrea
Make sure the MT gets hit by lightning fists


It's sufficient for MT to be standing in front of Feng there? (if both tanks are in front, both tanks get hit), i.e. OT could have aggro at this point?

Is there a stable tank rotation that'll involve MT always having aggro when Fists is expected to come, or do we just wing it with the tank rotation.

How quick does the OT have to be on copying Fists, does he have to wait for the cast bar and get it before the cast ends? (I noticed that my boss mods timer wasn't 100% accurate, sometimes it would say Fists was coming and then it didn't actually happen until a few seconds after the timer).

and you only want to try to copy fists immediately after epicenter has been cast. If you try to copy it from a cast before Feng casts epicenter it will expire by the time you need it.


I don't understand, if copied immediately after epicentre then it is a longer time duration to the next epicenter than if copied immediately before epicenter?

11/18/2012 09:00 AMPosted by Ðemolition
As far as the 1/3 2/4 thing, always plan to fist 1/3, because sometimes he won't lightning fist. So always fist first if he does it.


As the MT, is there any way I can tell whether OT successfully copied Fists or not? (so I know if I have to barrier)

11/18/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Dekkar
This. Otherwise he might not Fist, and Barrier will be on cooldown, and you will have no recourse except to blow raid CDs to heal through Epicentre. I have no idea how hard it hits on 10man, but we had to blow raid CDs for a missed one on 25.


Thanks for that tip. It doesn't hit very hard. In fact we had a pull on it with 8 people after our raid time had ended, and didn't interrupt/barrier most of the epicenters, and still got him under 50% before healers ran out of mana (and the total HPS was lower than it was for Stone Guard which we executed well). The fight seems an order of magnitude more forgiving of mistakes than Stone Guard.

What's the best positioning for phase 1? Is there any reason not to have everyone stack behind the boss, assuming tanks have got the barrier/interrupting sussed, so that everyone can be in the barrier?

Someone else in the group suggested that barrier tank should place the barrier in the centre of the room (with boss at side) for ranged to stack in, and melee that don't have damage reduction CDs would move to the ranged group for those Epicenters. But that's awkward if the barrier tank has aggro (and the OT has some Lash stacks already), and also means lost DPS time.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7155
Try it out in LFR, then you can get the practice and not matter if you stuff up.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
11/18/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Autumni
As the MT, is there any way I can tell whether OT successfully copied Fists or not? (so I know if I have to barrier)


You tank with someone who doesn't have a mic? cringe.

But anyway, they should have a debuff called Reversal: XXXX
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90 Human Paladin
13665
11/18/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Autumni
What's the best positioning for phase 1? Is there any reason not to have everyone stack behind the boss, assuming tanks have got the barrier/interrupting sussed, so that everyone can be in the barrier?


Yes. Well, at least on 25, it's a HUGE waste of mana because it's inevitable to take 2 ticks of of Epicentre (its duration is longer than Nullification Barrier by a couple seconds). The further people are from Epicentre, the less damage it does to them. Hence the middle of the room thing.
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90 Tauren Druid
12115
Maybe the best plan depends on whether you're melee-heavy or ranged heavy then. Having the melee and OT all run 30 yards to save a bit of mana also ends up costing mana since the phase goes on longer and there might be 1 more epicentre than there would have been otherwise.
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90 Human Paladin
13665
11/18/2012 08:29 PMPosted by Autumni
Maybe the best plan depends on whether you're melee-heavy or ranged heavy then. Having the melee and OT all run 30 yards to save a bit of mana also ends up costing mana since the phase goes on longer and there might be 1 more epicentre than there would have been otherwise.


Absolutely. That lost DPS time can cost your healers mana if you get an extra Epicentre.

One big thing for our healers that helped a lot was to instruct them to overheal less during phase 1. They get a little bored when it's just the tanks being hit, and tend to try and snipe each other.
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90 Tauren Druid
12115
OK, I've tanked it with Shroud now and need a few more tips from the pros.

Firstly , I find that if I steal the first Lightning Fists straight after an Epicentre then it does last until the next Epicentre - there was no danger of the stolen spell expiring as someone suggested.

I am stealing by waiting for the Fists to be cast, and then stealing when I see the other tank in the spell effect. I found that if I stole during the cast of Fists, then sometimes it would steal Lightning Lash instead or just steal nothing (although I can't rule out the other tank being missed in those cases).

This was very reliable, however, I found that often it would go something like Epi - Fist (STEAL) - Epi - Fist - Fist - Epi, but the cooldown on Shroud only came up like 0.5 seconds after the last Fist before the next Epi, so we had to use Nullification Barrier.

Is there some pro tip that would enable me to interrupt every Epi?

On our attempts so far, typically I've been able to interrupt all but two Epis (sometimes, all but one).
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90 Tauren Druid
12115
We found on P1 that having the raid stack on the boss's bum was the most effective (then everybody is inside the barrier and suffers no hit loss, and the barrier tank barely has to move).

A couple of other questions:

- On phase 2, nothing to be done with Shroud?
- On phase 3, I am stealing Resonance but I am a bit slow - gotta read the boss mods warning about who's got it, then target them, then hit my button (I have it keybound). I can't do it before 2 ticks of Resonance have got off. Any tips to speed up ?

Regarding Nullification Barrier and Draw Flame - on our last attempt, I'm pretty sure the barrier was down on the boss, and placed about halfway through the third Drawing of the Flame, yet the boss still gained the +50K damage ability. How is this meant to work exactly - is he supposed to not gain the ability if the barrier is down, or do you have to actually kill all the flame and stop it hitting the boss?
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
11/29/2012 02:49 AMPosted by Autumni
Is there some pro tip that would enable me to interrupt every Epi?


You can only interrupt every other at best (barrier the ones you can't stun), but sometimes he randomly doesn't cast fists, so you just get to heal through it.

11/29/2012 02:52 AMPosted by Autumni
- On phase 2, nothing to be done with Shroud?


Steal flaming spear for deeps

11/29/2012 02:52 AMPosted by Autumni
- On phase 3, I am stealing Resonance but I am a bit slow - gotta read the boss mods warning about who's got it, then target them, then hit my button (I have it keybound). I can't do it before 2 ticks of Resonance have got off. Any tips to speed up ?


It doesn't matter, it doesn't steal it off them, it just lets you use it on the boss.

Regarding Nullification Barrier and Draw Flame - on our last attempt, I'm pretty sure the barrier was down on the boss, and placed about halfway through the third Drawing of the Flame, yet the boss still gained the +50K damage ability. How is this meant to work exactly - is he supposed to not gain the ability if the barrier is down, or do you have to actually kill all the flame and stop it hitting the boss?


You can't "kill" it.

Every other one you drop a barrier on the boss, it hits the barrier and goes away. But if you place it wrong it does nothing.

The ones you can't barrier you just heal through
Edited by Ðemolition on 11/29/2012 3:13 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Warrior
9735
On normal you can sometimes interrupt more than one in a row if he casts a fist immediately before epicenter.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
11/29/2012 03:45 AMPosted by Cordrann
On normal you can sometimes interrupt more than one in a row if he casts a fist immediately before epicenter.


You can on heroic too, its just timer RNG.
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