So which faction represents "Darkness" best?

90 Human Monk
2665
Edit: Just want to pre-emptively clarify that this thread was written mostly in regards to style.

One common design in Warcraft is that the Horde and Alliance have always, always been mirrors of each other. From gameplay to thematic. Similar, but with differences.

This is after all a game where you might end up playing a faction you're not a huge fan of for the sake of playing with friends.

Just as a quick example in thematics, both Draenei and Tauren are very close to each other thematically. They're both good-aligned, hooved races that tend to be larger than their peers.

But what about themes of darkness, and their interest? For all intents and purposes, I'm not talking about "evil". Evil would be which faction kidnaps babies and eats souls. That's totally Horde. I'm talking about darkness. Darkness is not necessarily evil.

For the Alliance. Here you have Night Elves, who, you know...are nocturnal. They tend to be a bit extreme in how they operate, and can disappear into the shadows. They're strong, but tend to prefer intelligent tactics over brute force. Like all Elven cultures, they have fanciful buildings and scenery. My only complaint about them, in regards to this topic at least, is that the "night" motif of the race all but vanishes after Ashenvale. Hyjal does not have the same dark sky look of Ashenvale or Darkshore and as far as I know the zone only has, like, one barrow den.

Then you have the Worgen, which is essentially the Alliance's equivalent to the Forsaken. These guys are ferocious, ravaging beasts who look like they can tear limbs off. But they're also just regular people that happen to have a violent side that is more violent than most. They have dark buildings and Victorian themes, and their theme song is great and moody.

For the Horde. Here the obvious "darkness" race is the Forsaken. They care very little about honour, and do not shy away from the darkest of magics. They will melt your skin off with poison before they engage you in combat, and they will trick you with lies and deceit before they speak to you plainly. Forsaken architecture is a mix between gothic styles and Frankenstein/Tesla references. Though Forsaken areas tend to be very moody(and gooey, for some reason), they don't seem to have much in the way of a compelling musical theme.

I would also argue that the second "darkness" race of the Horde is the Trolls, even though they have next to nothing to do with the Forsaken. The Darkspear only gave up cannibalism and other voodoo practices when they joined the Horde. And though their visual styles tend to be very bright and colourful, as a rule they tend to often use their own style of primitive magic. And that's where the "darkness" lies--they are from a culture that for generations has practiced blood magic, sacrifice and the worship of spirits that are not necessarily benevolent. Even going by the tribe's name alone, they were never meant to be a necessarily cheery group of Trolls. Or to paraphrase Blizzard, "Most Troll tribes are evil, but the Darkspear are the ones who are trying to steer straight".

So which of the factions(or races, if you prefer) represents the "Darkness" theme the best? Since this thread is obviously all about opinion, I'm just going to put this out there:

Sylvanas could kick Tyrande's !@# any day, no matter who is writing Tyrande. Elune's hand maiden lost my vote when she got the Peggy Bundy haircut.
Edited by Draile on 11/18/2012 1:36 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
Blood Elves. They resort to pretty much anything to get what they want. People expect Forsaken to be dishonorable. And Trolls, and Orcs. But no one ever expects the pretty people to be life draining, gnome enslaving, weapons of mass destruction using geniuses.
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90 Human Monk
2665
Well yeah but everyone in the Horde can be jerks.

The Blood Elves aren't dark at all. They're thematically tied to the sun.
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkIsNotEvil

I feel like Trolls, particularly the Darkspear, personify this trope.

In the words of the Druid trainer in the Valley of Spirits, "Dark is the jungle, but fertile is it's soil."

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSacredDarkness - This too.
Edited by Pyronaptor on 11/18/2012 2:23 PM PST
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90 Goblin Mage
8380
11/18/2012 01:37 PMPosted by Draile
Well yeah but everyone in the Horde can be jerks.

Everyone except the tauren anyway. I really don't think the know how to be evil. Grimtotem sure but they're not in the Horde anyway.

The Blood Elves aren't dark at all. They're thematically tied to the sun.

Goes to show you that Light does not necessarily equal good just like dark does not equal evil, as Pyro mentioned.

As for who represents "darkness" best of all the playable races, you really cannot go with anyone except the Forsaken. They live in a sewer/tomb/prison area with things that go bump in the night, underneath the ruins of perhaps the grandest human kingdom ever, nestled in a forest that seems to think it's always nighttime out (or at least it did). As you said, they have no moral qualms about dropping mass amounts of chemical weaponry on civilian populations. It's pretty clear they are the winner. I only hope we can start seeing a few "good forsaken" instead of just the average run of the mill comic undead villain.
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
11/18/2012 03:00 PMPosted by Jetzeppelin
Goes to show you that Light does not necessarily equal good just like dark does not equal evil, as Pyro mentioned.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightIsNotGood

I love this website.
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90 Human Monk
2665
11/18/2012 03:00 PMPosted by Jetzeppelin
They live in a sewer/tomb/prison area with things that go bump in the night, underneath the ruins of perhaps the grandest human kingdom ever, nestled in a forest that seems to think it's always nighttime out


I would point out here that the Night Elven areas are usually always dark, and that all the Barrow Dens in Kalimdor are/were originally underground living caves that belong to the Night Elves(mainly the Druids).

11/18/2012 03:00 PMPosted by Jetzeppelin
As you said, they have no moral qualms about dropping mass amounts of chemical weaponry on civilian populations.


I would also argue on this particular point that the stuff with the plague isn't dark; it's more or less evil. Same with how the Forsaken torture and experiment on people.



http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightIsNotGood

I love this website.


And I hate you for linking to it!
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
And I hate you for linking to it!

Because it's impossible to go there and not browse it for hours? :P
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90 Human Monk
2665
._.

Apparently Draenei are our Space Elves.
Edited by Draile on 11/18/2012 3:35 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
11/18/2012 03:08 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightIsNotGood


Supernatural, Digimon, and Yugioh GX. I knew about that trope before it was cool.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Because it's impossible to go there and not browse it for hours? :P


And you wonder why I stopped being a Paladin. My vision of Paladins were scarred. Oh and murlocs are the pure evil of Azeroth.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
11/18/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Lorthuron
Because it's impossible to go there and not browse it for hours? :P


And you wonder why I stopped being a Paladin. My vision of Paladins were scarred. Oh and murlocs are the pure evil of Azeroth.


Scarlets must've really ruined your immersion huh?
Edited by Noitora on 11/18/2012 3:49 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
13525
11/18/2012 03:48 PMPosted by Noitora


And you wonder why I stopped being a Paladin. My vision of Paladins were scarred. Oh and murlocs are the pure evil of Azeroth.


Scarlets must've really ruined your immersion huh?


Yes...it did.... I cried manly tears. I'm a warrior now, but I still follow the Holy Light's beliefs despite it should be called the Will but hey whatevs.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
11/18/2012 03:51 PMPosted by Lorthuron
Yes...it did.... I cried manly tears. I'm a warrior now, but I still follow the Holy Light's beliefs despite it should be called the Will but hey whatevs.


Scarlets have warriors too.

trollololololol
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90 Human Warrior
13525
11/18/2012 03:57 PMPosted by Noitora
Yes...it did.... I cried manly tears. I'm a warrior now, but I still follow the Holy Light's beliefs despite it should be called the Will but hey whatevs.


Scarlets have warriors too.

trollololololol


Yes I know. I was a Scarlet before it was cool.
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90 Goblin Mage
8380
11/18/2012 03:23 PMPosted by Draile
I would point out here that the Night Elven areas are usually always dark, and that all the Barrow Dens in Kalimdor are/were originally underground living caves that belong to the Night Elves(mainly the Druids).

Well, yeah, but the night elf forests, while dark out, at least look like they're still living, whereas Tirisfal Glade looks like it wants to die. At least it's not as bad as felwood in that regard though. And the Barrow Dens sadly don't compare to the vast underground sewer city that is UC. Those Dens at least look cozy.

But is this as you say just more along the lines of Evil rather than Dark?

11/18/2012 03:08 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightIsNotGood

Ah, Kefka! Best FF villain ever. Undeniably a creature of light but when it comes to evil, this guy is basically a gross lovechild between the Joker and Adolf Hitler.
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63 Draenei Paladin
1680
11/18/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Draile
Hyjal does not have the same dark sky look of Ashenvale or Darkshore and as far as I know the zone only has, like, one barrow den.


Really? All I saw of Hyjal's sky was either stars or Fire signifiying the Firelands, there is no day in Hyjal only night. Moonglade has a night theme to it while the deeper parts of Feralas have a dark forest theme and Felwood is an even darker forest. All in all the Night Elf lands have either a night theme or a dark forest theme.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9985
Forsaken..?

They're the only race with the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow as the national religion.
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90 Human Monk
2665
Well, yeah, but the night elf forests, while dark out, at least look like they're still living, whereas Tirisfal Glade looks like it wants to die. At least it's not as bad as felwood in that regard though. And the Barrow Dens sadly don't compare to the vast underground sewer city that is UC. Those Dens at least look cozy.

But is this as you say just more along the lines of Evil rather than Dark?


Probably.

In their original concept, Night Elves were much darker than what they ended up as in WCIII. They used women as servants, rather than treat them as equals. And they lived in mountain caves, rather than normal villages/trees.

I honestly kind of wish at least some of that flavour was brought back.



Ah, Kefka! Best FF villain ever. Undeniably a creature of light but when it comes to evil, this guy is basically a gross lovechild between the Joker and Adolf Hitler.


Gotta respect the most quotable Final Fantasy character in history.

"Ahem. There's SAND on my boots "



Really? All I saw of Hyjal's sky was either stars or Fire signifiying the Firelands, there is no day in Hyjal only night. Moonglade has a night theme to it while the deeper parts of Feralas have a dark forest theme and Felwood is an even darker forest. All in all the Night Elf lands have either a night theme or a dark forest theme.


I'd have to check in on this. Sure you weren't just there at night? I'm pretty sure Hyjal has day time. I certainly remember the very colourful fauna and glittering water, though.
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