Topic
Fireblast glyph shouldn't effect Frost Bomb
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Edited by Bizznizz on 11/19/12 8:00 PM (PST)
- The glyph of fire blast should not effect frost bomb as the instant explosion causes far too much damage.
- Make the functionality for fire baseline, and same for arcane so that they don't miss the glyph. (as suggested by posters in this thread) - I don't believe we even need a compensation for frost since there's too much damage and utility, but if something has to be given it could just spread the slow or the dot effect (as suggested by posters in this thread) Fireblast glyph shouldn't effect Frost Bomb * Edited to change content and title to something more appropriate |
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You took Living Bomb as a talent, but want to remove glyph of Fire Blast?
/boggle |
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Thereby hangs a tale.
Living Bomb was removed from DOT-spreading so that it wouldn't be the only bomb choice for Fire Mages. The glyph was added so that LB spreading could be optionally restored by any spec. For Arcane and Frost, this wasn't a big deal, because DOT spreading only saves a fraction of a GCD; it's a convenience at most. But for Fire, this made the glyph and LB both mandatory, because Fire Mages are already casting Inferno Blast in rotation; it'd be foolish not to leverage that with the additional spreading. So to ensure that there was still freedom of choice between the bombs, effects were added for Nether Tempest and Frost Bomb. It seems highly unlikely that the glyph will go away, and it can't simply do nothing for Frost Bomb without once again messing up freedom of choice on that talent tier. So the question is: What effect could be the glyph have on Frost Bomb that would be competitive with the effects it has on LB and NT without causing the high burst it currently allows? |
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Why do mages think nerfing frost bomb will screw them over in PvE? You have 2 other bombs to chose from. God damn I hate this game sometimes.
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You took Living Bomb as a talent, but want to remove glyph of Fire Blast? ----> Point ----> Your head. It seems highly unlikely that the glyph will go away, and it can't simply do nothing for Frost Bomb without once again messing up freedom of choice on that talent tier. So the question is: I see your point. In reality i don't expect the glyph to go, but the amount of damage from frost bomb is absurd. Besides, after that it procs a free Frostfire bolt insta cast. Then you have on top of that Water elemental Frost Nova and your own Nova to set up shatter combos. There's just too much instant damage from frost mages. Perhaps if it simply spread the frost bomb dot effect as an AOE to keep the overall damage. God knows they wouldn't want to do anything to mages for the sake of PVE. (Yes, that was sarcasm.) |
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Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/19/12 2:37 PM (PST)
Why do Mages think nerfing frost bomb will screw them over in PvE? You have 2 other bombs to chose from. God damn I hate this game sometimes. There's supposed to be choice and overall, Frost Bomb needs to do the same damage as the other two overall to be considered a choice. Also, nerfing it will RUIN its use in AoE for soloing, dungeons, and most important, Challenge Mode. So yes, Frost Bomb nerfing WILL Screw over PvE. Even Deep Freeze being nerfed will screw me over when I solo rares as I can now only get 3 Ice Lances in, if I'm lucky, rather than just barely clipping 4. Lets just go ahead and nerf Glaive Toss by 50%. You still have two other choices. |
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Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/19/12 2:38 PM (PST)
And then all the Fire Mages lost every last bit of their cleave, leaving them with crap damage when it comes to more than 1 target. Yeah, that certainly won't cause more issues than it "fixes". I would just say remove the Frost Bomb portion from the glyph. That, or cause its slowing effect when you use Fire Blast/Inferno Blast. |
To be fair, a glyph shouldn't be necessary for your AoE to function correctly. Personally, I'd build the glyph's functionality into Inferno Blast if it really is that necessary for Fire, then change the glyph to do something else. |
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----> Point No, I think you missed my point. |
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You can honestly nerf Glaive toss or anything at this point. I really could care less, because this class isnt being fixed. I've moved onto levelling my wizards casually. |
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Fire is well above average raid dps and really could use a significant nerf. Also, GT is the only alright talent on that tier (hunters don't even have choice, unlike mages) so that's an insulting comparison. |
Blizzard is fine with 2 out of 3 when it comes to PVE vs PVP. Hell sometimes 1 out of 3 for PVE is fine with Blizz(Silencing shot is pretty much the only thing taken for PVE raiding in that tier). Frost bomb would still be fine for mages to use in PVP. Actually the current mage bomb set up in pvp goes against your little rhetoric of "blizzard wants it to be a choice" since ALL mages in pvp take frost bomb pretty much. Doing something to the glyph in reference to frost bomb will make more mages potentially choose the other 2. They probably won't due to the slow, but right now frost bomb is the hands down choice in pvp. So let's not say nerfing the glyph for frost bomb will remove the option of choice. |
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Edited by Ryegeleye on 11/19/12 5:13 PM (PST)
Thereby hangs a tale. I long for the day when Inferno Blast is solely a Hot Streak generator and fire mage "dot-spread" is put into the history books and our ability to aoe is restored. Flamestrike/AE/Blizzard just don't cut it when put up against things like Divine Storm, Swipe, etc. Three target cleave (at max) just !@#$ing sucks. No offense, but the mage devs who worked on our class for the last two expansions haven't done a very good job. The level 90 talents must be the worst change to the mage class in the entire history of this game. I can't believe people who actually play a mage could try and cripple us with stuff like Rune of Power and Invocation. Maybe they're interesting options for arcane (who knows, since the number of people playing arcane is barely greater than 1), but they sure aren't for fire or frost. It's a shame we didn't get someone in the same vein as the person who designed warlocks for this expansion. |
Inferno Blast still spreads Ignite/Pyro, so I don't see your point. |
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Edited by Marcellena on 11/19/12 6:05 PM (PST)
If glyph of Fire blast goes, then Frost Bomb needs to be undispellable.
The answer is just to make frosts mastery not effect frost bomb. |
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Well, we use it mostly for Combustion spreads. I mean, Inferno Blast procs Heating Up so when we use it we usually don't have a strong ignite up yet. I don't think Pyro gets spread and it will be removed next patch. |
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Edited by Marcellena on 11/19/12 7:01 PM (PST)
Step 2: Suggest a compromise. All I've read in this thread have been one sided nerfs. |
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Saying "you have 2 other bombs to choose from" COMPLETELY destroys the purpose of the new talents. That's an unacceptable answer, every talent is supposed to be a choice. Letting one talent be weaker due to PvP and justifying that PvE players should just skip that talent undermines the new streamlined talent trees. All of the talents should be equally useful on an average fight; yes, that isn't necessarily the case right now, but the last thing we need is more examples of lopsided talent tiers. There are possible compromises you can make without nerfing the total damage output for PvE. Have the glyph detonate the bomb, but spread the damage over, say, 6 seconds to reduce the burst. Make the glyph detonate the slow and half the damage immediately, and then the other half will come at the end of the duration. Nerf Deep Freeze so a Mage has a smaller window to Shatter their Frost Bomb. Make it so that when Frost Bomb is detonated by Fire Blast, it has a reduced/zero chance to proc Brain Freeze, reducing the additional burst of that instant Frostfire Bolt. Sure, none of those are particularly elegant changes, but the point is that there are ways to reduce Frost's burst from Frost Bomb without gutting it for PvE. |
