Fireblast glyph shouldn't effect Frost Bomb

90 Goblin Mage
0
- The glyph of fire blast should not effect frost bomb as the instant explosion causes far too much damage.
- Make the functionality for fire baseline, and same for arcane so that they don't miss the glyph. (as suggested by posters in this thread)
- I don't believe we even need a compensation for frost since there's too much damage and utility, but if something has to be given it could just spread the slow or the dot effect (as suggested by posters in this thread)

Fireblast glyph shouldn't effect Frost Bomb

* Edited to change content and title to something more appropriate
Edited by Bizznizz on 11/19/2012 8:00 PM PST
Reply Quote
You took Living Bomb as a talent, but want to remove glyph of Fire Blast?

/boggle
Reply Quote
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
Thereby hangs a tale.

Living Bomb was removed from DOT-spreading so that it wouldn't be the only bomb choice for Fire Mages.

The glyph was added so that LB spreading could be optionally restored by any spec. For Arcane and Frost, this wasn't a big deal, because DOT spreading only saves a fraction of a GCD; it's a convenience at most. But for Fire, this made the glyph and LB both mandatory, because Fire Mages are already casting Inferno Blast in rotation; it'd be foolish not to leverage that with the additional spreading.

So to ensure that there was still freedom of choice between the bombs, effects were added for Nether Tempest and Frost Bomb.

It seems highly unlikely that the glyph will go away, and it can't simply do nothing for Frost Bomb without once again messing up freedom of choice on that talent tier. So the question is:

What effect could be the glyph have on Frost Bomb that would be competitive with the effects it has on LB and NT without causing the high burst it currently allows?
Reply Quote
90 Human Hunter
14920
Why do mages think nerfing frost bomb will screw them over in PvE? You have 2 other bombs to chose from. God damn I hate this game sometimes.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Mage
0
You took Living Bomb as a talent, but want to remove glyph of Fire Blast?

/boggle


----> Point

----> Your head.

It seems highly unlikely that the glyph will go away, and it can't simply do nothing for Frost Bomb without once again messing up freedom of choice on that talent tier. So the question is:

What effect could be the glyph have on Frost Bomb that would be competitive with the effects it has on LB and NT without causing the high burst it currently allows?


I see your point. In reality i don't expect the glyph to go, but the amount of damage from frost bomb is absurd. Besides, after that it procs a free Frostfire bolt insta cast. Then you have on top of that Water elemental Frost Nova and your own Nova to set up shatter combos.

There's just too much instant damage from frost mages.

Perhaps if it simply spread the frost bomb dot effect as an AOE to keep the overall damage. God knows they wouldn't want to do anything to mages for the sake of PVE. (Yes, that was sarcasm.)
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Why do Mages think nerfing frost bomb will screw them over in PvE? You have 2 other bombs to chose from. God damn I hate this game sometimes.


There's supposed to be choice and overall, Frost Bomb needs to do the same damage as the other two overall to be considered a choice.

Also, nerfing it will RUIN its use in AoE for soloing, dungeons, and most important, Challenge Mode.

So yes, Frost Bomb nerfing WILL Screw over PvE. Even Deep Freeze being nerfed will screw me over when I solo rares as I can now only get 3 Ice Lances in, if I'm lucky, rather than just barely clipping 4.

Lets just go ahead and nerf Glaive Toss by 50%. You still have two other choices.
Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/19/2012 2:37 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
9155
Or we can remove the glyph all together because there are no other glyphs that directly effect your talent choice.
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/19/2012 02:36 PMPosted by Sup
Or we can remove the glyph all together because there are no other glyphs that directly effect your talent choice.


And then all the Fire Mages lost every last bit of their cleave, leaving them with crap damage when it comes to more than 1 target.

Yeah, that certainly won't cause more issues than it "fixes".

I would just say remove the Frost Bomb portion from the glyph. That, or cause its slowing effect when you use Fire Blast/Inferno Blast.
Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/19/2012 2:38 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Priest
12440
11/19/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
Or we can remove the glyph all together because there are no other glyphs that directly effect your talent choice.


And then all the Fire Mages lost every last bit of their cleave, leaving them with crap damage when it comes to more than 1 target.

Yeah, that certainly won't cause more issues than it "fixes".

I would just say remove the Frost Bomb portion from the glyph. That, or cause its slowing effect when you use Fire Blast/Inferno Blast.

To be fair, a glyph shouldn't be necessary for your AoE to function correctly.

Personally, I'd build the glyph's functionality into Inferno Blast if it really is that necessary for Fire, then change the glyph to do something else.
Reply Quote
----> Point

----> Your head.

No, I think you missed my point.
Reply Quote
90 Human Hunter
14920
11/19/2012 02:35 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
Lets just go ahead and nerf Glaive Toss by 50%. You still have two other choices.


You can honestly nerf Glaive toss or anything at this point. I really could care less, because this class isnt being fixed. I've moved onto levelling my wizards casually.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Hunter
15525
11/19/2012 02:35 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
Why do Mages think nerfing frost bomb will screw them over in PvE? You have 2 other bombs to chose from. God damn I hate this game sometimes.


There's supposed to be choice and overall, Frost Bomb needs to do the same damage as the other two overall to be considered a choice.

Also, nerfing it will RUIN its use in AoE for soloing, dungeons, and most important, Challenge Mode.

So yes, Frost Bomb nerfing WILL Screw over PvE. Even Deep Freeze being nerfed will screw me over when I solo rares as I can now only get 3 Ice Lances in, if I'm lucky, rather than just barely clipping 4.

Lets just go ahead and nerf Glaive Toss by 50%. You still have two other choices.


Fire is well above average raid dps and really could use a significant nerf. Also, GT is the only alright talent on that tier (hunters don't even have choice, unlike mages) so that's an insulting comparison.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Warlock
0
11/19/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
Or we can remove the glyph all together because there are no other glyphs that directly effect your talent choice.


And then all the Fire Mages lost every last bit of their cleave, leaving them with crap damage when it comes to more than 1 target.

Yeah, that certainly won't cause more issues than it "fixes".

I would just say remove the Frost Bomb portion from the glyph. That, or cause its slowing effect when you use Fire Blast/Inferno Blast.


Blizzard is fine with 2 out of 3 when it comes to PVE vs PVP. Hell sometimes 1 out of 3 for PVE is fine with Blizz(Silencing shot is pretty much the only thing taken for PVE raiding in that tier).

Frost bomb would still be fine for mages to use in PVP.

Actually the current mage bomb set up in pvp goes against your little rhetoric of "blizzard wants it to be a choice" since ALL mages in pvp take frost bomb pretty much. Doing something to the glyph in reference to frost bomb will make more mages potentially choose the other 2. They probably won't due to the slow, but right now frost bomb is the hands down choice in pvp. So let's not say nerfing the glyph for frost bomb will remove the option of choice.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Mage
17740
Thereby hangs a tale.

Living Bomb was removed from DOT-spreading so that it wouldn't be the only bomb choice for Fire Mages.

The glyph was added so that LB spreading could be optionally restored by any spec. For Arcane and Frost, this wasn't a big deal, because DOT spreading only saves a fraction of a GCD; it's a convenience at most. But for Fire, this made the glyph and LB both mandatory, because Fire Mages are already casting Inferno Blast in rotation; it'd be foolish not to leverage that with the additional spreading.

So to ensure that there was still freedom of choice between the bombs, effects were added for Nether Tempest and Frost Bomb.

It seems highly unlikely that the glyph will go away, and it can't simply do nothing for Frost Bomb without once again messing up freedom of choice on that talent tier. So the question is:

What effect could be the glyph have on Frost Bomb that would be competitive with the effects it has on LB and NT without causing the high burst it currently allows?


I long for the day when Inferno Blast is solely a Hot Streak generator and fire mage "dot-spread" is put into the history books and our ability to aoe is restored.

Flamestrike/AE/Blizzard just don't cut it when put up against things like Divine Storm, Swipe, etc. Three target cleave (at max) just !@#$ing sucks.

No offense, but the mage devs who worked on our class for the last two expansions haven't done a very good job. The level 90 talents must be the worst change to the mage class in the entire history of this game. I can't believe people who actually play a mage could try and cripple us with stuff like Rune of Power and Invocation. Maybe they're interesting options for arcane (who knows, since the number of people playing arcane is barely greater than 1), but they sure aren't for fire or frost.

It's a shame we didn't get someone in the same vein as the person who designed warlocks for this expansion.
Edited by Ryegeleye on 11/19/2012 5:13 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Warlock
9685
11/19/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
And then all the Fire Mages lost every last bit of their cleave, leaving them with crap damage when it comes to more than 1 target.


Inferno Blast still spreads Ignite/Pyro, so I don't see your point.
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
3900
If glyph of Fire blast goes, then Frost Bomb needs to be undispellable.

The answer is just to make frosts mastery not effect frost bomb.
Edited by Marcellena on 11/19/2012 6:05 PM PST
Reply Quote
11/19/2012 05:50 PMPosted by Dreadsoldier
And then all the Fire Mages lost every last bit of their cleave, leaving them with crap damage when it comes to more than 1 target.


Inferno Blast still spreads Ignite/Pyro, so I don't see your point.

Well, we use it mostly for Combustion spreads.

I mean, Inferno Blast procs Heating Up so when we use it we usually don't have a strong ignite up yet.

I don't think Pyro gets spread and it will be removed next patch.
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
3900
Step 2:
Remove glyph of deep freeze

Whats the deal with this Blizzard?

What do you love that mages execute anything inside a stun every 30s? do you think it is skill?

Frost Bomb needs to be undispellable.


Of course the entitled crybabies cant acept any compromise, ever!!!

Soul Reaper undispelable too plz Blizz, i will start acting like a spoiled little brat (just like mages do) so DKs can be broken overpowered too.


Suggest a compromise. All I've read in this thread have been one sided nerfs.
Edited by Marcellena on 11/19/2012 7:01 PM PST
Reply Quote
11/19/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Mezasu
Why do mages think nerfing frost bomb will screw them over in PvE? You have 2 other bombs to chose from. God damn I hate this game sometimes.


Saying "you have 2 other bombs to choose from" COMPLETELY destroys the purpose of the new talents. That's an unacceptable answer, every talent is supposed to be a choice. Letting one talent be weaker due to PvP and justifying that PvE players should just skip that talent undermines the new streamlined talent trees. All of the talents should be equally useful on an average fight; yes, that isn't necessarily the case right now, but the last thing we need is more examples of lopsided talent tiers.

There are possible compromises you can make without nerfing the total damage output for PvE. Have the glyph detonate the bomb, but spread the damage over, say, 6 seconds to reduce the burst. Make the glyph detonate the slow and half the damage immediately, and then the other half will come at the end of the duration. Nerf Deep Freeze so a Mage has a smaller window to Shatter their Frost Bomb. Make it so that when Frost Bomb is detonated by Fire Blast, it has a reduced/zero chance to proc Brain Freeze, reducing the additional burst of that instant Frostfire Bolt.

Sure, none of those are particularly elegant changes, but the point is that there are ways to reduce Frost's burst from Frost Bomb without gutting it for PvE.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]