A Farewell...

Look forward to the event and where Lunaclaw takes WSB from there
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11/19/2012 12:12 AMPosted by Brijit
One thing I liked about WSB was their intensity... they really treated world PVP as a serious affair, and it was nice to have an enemy that was really out to get the alliance

WSB and CBH had some great times. One of my favorite being when we attacked you guys in Blackrock Mountain. That led to an amazing fight
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90 Night Elf Rogue
4240
Himanshu, we've never met, so I'm sure my opinion is pretty irrelevant, but I just wanted to say I think it took guts to take this action and to make this post, and I respect that. I wish you well whatever you choose to do, and hope that if you stay on Emerald Dream, we continue to see the side of you that this post reflects.

As for Warsong Battalion, I look forward to seeing the positive changes that have been mentioned. I'm all for wPvP, but it's best when it stays respectful and fun for -everyone- involved. I wish the new leadership all best, and hope that we can all become friends -- OOC at least. :)
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90 Goblin Warrior
13230
Personally I think most things in the W-PVP community are blown out of proportion so i never saw himan as necessarily a bad guy, but that's not to say everyone doesn't have their faults either. it is what it is though so, meh.
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90 Night Elf Druid
14925
11/18/2012 03:42 PMPosted by Artorías
I'll believe it when I see it.


This, especially when old habits still seem to be in full effect while they say change is on the way.
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90 Human Warrior
16605
OOC:

Color me skeptical.
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90 Night Elf Priest
8445
INC WALL OF TEXT!

So Himanshu is stepping down and Lunclaw is taking up the crown…

I had a few run ins with Himanshu on his DK over the last couple days (along with Luncaclaw – they were grouped obviously). The most memorable run in being last night. He crashed an RP event we were having – repeatedly. Even after a friend Horde side (who was in on the RP) politely asked them to stop. We were informed that they would not stop because, I quote, “DCO insulted us on the forums.” (Where, how and when, I know not.)

After a few mins of everyone just floating on our mounts waiting for Metragems(Himanshu), Lunaclaw, Wrenchwitch and some others to leave.. Himanshu challenges me to a duel. SURE! I’m game. Here’s to hoping he will be honorable and keep it 1v1. Fat chance. We battle it out for a bit. I’m winning. So of course his buddies jump in and take me out. I rez and get an apology from hiMan… As he death grips me back into the group. (Silly me for thinking of him as I do all the other Horde I interact with who are willing to let someone brush off and reduel properly because of interruptions. Here I thought he was going to get his guildies in order and tell em to back off so he could try to 1v1 me once more.)

So forgive me if I’m in agreement with all those others that have said “I’ll believe it when I see it.”

Himan did apologize 20 mins after the fact. At this point everyone dispersed to do whatever – I walked the Pixel and came back to him apologizing and…… inviting me and DCO to his event?
… Yeah, I’ll be there with Bells on. ;)
http://cdn.motinetwork.net/motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0901/its-a-trap-demotivational-poster-1232526781.jpg

I think my view would be different about this event and I would even be tempted to show up had the RP crashing last night not happened. I would even be trying to convince my guild to give WSB the benefit of the doubt.. I’m actually humming and hawing over whether to do just that now. But really, how can I?
You say you’ve changed and apologize for all these things, yet you did RP crashing just a few hours ago. :/

So thanks for the invite, but no thanks.
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90 Human Hunter
5615
Wall inc - but its decent stuff, you may want to think on it.

Yeah. It's me. I'm in this thread now. Know half of you are going "oh Jesus, it's return /facepalm" and the other half are going "OH, JESUS! IT'S RETURN!" If you're reading this at all, you've obviously taken up one opinion or another on WSB in the past. What concerns me is the indecision many people have expressed in this thread. No, it doesn't concern me people want to give WSB a second (fifteenth) chance. What concerns me is more at the root of the leadership change - it seems like a logical fallacy to me. Let me elaborate.

Classically, WSB have been cowardly dicks with flimsy justifications for their lack of skill and respect for other players. Stop. You there reading. Examine how you reacted to that comment. Specifically, you WSB members. I'm sure there was a little eye roll from each of you, but beyond that is my true point. There are two types of players in WSB - it is a guild divided internally BY THE BASE BELIEFS OF THOSE PLAYER TYPES.

1. The Apologist - "Oh this Return guy, he really just can't respect that we are trying to change and make an active effort to reform." - (Luna, Ruvin, etc). New players - General reaction is to defend WSB blindly, thinking none of the members could possibly exhibit a lack of respect for others unless appropriately provoked. Overly kind to everyone - political, civil, but always feels a little fake (attempting too hard to be the smiling face that distracts you from the fart smell in the elevator). Zergers, usually bad players.

2. The Antagonist - "LOL this Return try hard is so mad cause WSB NUMBAH 1. I'll be sure to teabag, banner plant, and camp him next time we kick his !@# 4v1, and troll their gay little RP events next time I see him, that should be funny, LOL. Bet he'll whine about that too. It's just a game bro, I'll do whatever I want, I'm just having fun after all." -(Attaktix, Siccup, etc). Players that have generally been in WSB a long while and are there because it has like minded people that don't give a $%^- about respect/consideration for other players. Naw, I'm not talking about care bearing and not attacking or killing people - talking about respecting the courage, skill, or beliefs - or at very least tolerating them without openly mocking them. Talking about realizing, that if it is just a game, that understanding there's another person at the other end of the screen who's probably got a lot in common with you, and that taking a piss on them and exhibiting poor sportsmanship/a complete lack of empathy because they picked a different color than you did is pretty weak...by human standards, not by server standards. These type of players won't understand what I'm talking about in this paragraph at all, and will continue to *!@# on the sense of community and player regard until they quit WoW. Also, zergers, usually bad players.
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90 Human Hunter
5615
Continued...

I know these are exaggerations of the stereotypes, but they are very clearly the loudest voices in the guild, and the defacto, if not appointed, leaders for other players to follow. Knowing that these are the two types of players in the guild - here's my question:

How can you possibly hope for a "reform" when many of your long-standing members, including officers, are in WSB specifically so they can have the freedom to treat other players however they want?

Rephrased with earlier concepts:

The apologists want to make a fresh reputation for WSB where all the players show some restraint and respect other people.

The antagonists want to be in a guild where they can Zerg server events, feel good about winning by outnumbering opponents, chain spit, emote, and camp other players, and in general do whatever they want because they're a big guild that hits in numbers, not having to worry about consideration, restraint, or respect for other people as long as THEY are having fun.

Do you see the problem here? The apologists are proposing an entirely new guild because of the division this will put between the players that agree with one philosophy vs another. It won't work. It's why people feel unsure and divided on this - because they can't visualize it happening - because they see the difference between the actions of some of the members of WSB vs others, the apologist vs the antagonist.

I'll give this to Himanshu. He rarely, if ever, apologized for the actions of his members. He knew what they were, what they did, and he accepted that as the niche for the guild. It's why WSB continued to work. In rebuilding for pandaria, he unintentionally brought an entirely new group of players in that didn't fit the niche - people who directly clashed with the ideals of the current members (without even realizing they did).

It's hilarious to me - if this reformation keeps going, it will be the end of WSB in one way or another. Either Luna will hold true to the promises and start kicking offenders, severely crippling the guild, or won't and this new set of WSB strawmen - the apologists - will eventually get sick of the hate coming towards them/the inconsiderate, stubborn nature of the current antagonists to do what they want, and will find another guild.
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lol dayum son
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90 Undead Hunter
9205
11/19/2012 10:51 AMPosted by Return
"Oh this Return guy, he really just can't respect that we are trying to change and make an active effort to reform." - (Luna, Ruvin, etc). New players - General reaction is to defend WSB blindly, thinking none of the members could possibly exhibit a lack of respect for others unless appropriately provoked. Overly kind to everyone - political, civil, but always feels a little fake (attempting too hard to be the smiling face that distracts you from the fart smell in the elevator). Zergers, usually bad players.


Wow, you really read into this.
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90 Human Hunter
5615
You're right, most of my views are conjecture, and unfounded by logic or real events.

11/18/2012 07:26 PMPosted by Siccup
I don't know who you are, but i agree with you. I'm out to enjoy the game, which for me, is to piss off other players.. which is probably going to get me kicked out of this "New WSB"
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OOC:

I really just have a quick question.

What will you be doing to prevent WSB from staying at its current reputation of the server?
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11/19/2012 09:42 AMPosted by Dycern
The most memorable run in being last night. He crashed an RP event we were having – repeatedly. Even after a friend Horde side (who was in on the RP) politely asked them to stop.


I'd like to point out, that, it really wasn't our intention to RP grief or anything of that nature, we just saw an opportunity to WPvP, and we took it.
I've WPvPed with you guys a ton in the past, Hell, to be honest I really like your Guild.. And I've gone out of my way to say great things about you guys.

I was just WPvPing.
I didn't really see it as a huge issue, if it was, I'm sorry.
As for someone telling us to stop Horde side...
No, no one told me in particular, anything

As for your 1v1, Strategems actually really wanted to 1v1 you.
You'll notice when the Hunter came back from being AFK and attacked you, we all /facepalm'd him. We weren't happy about that either.

Sorry you got affected so negatively about all of this!
D:
Edited by Lunaclaw on 11/19/2012 12:30 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
4240
I think my view would be different about this event and I would even be tempted to show up had the RP crashing last night not happened. I would even be trying to convince my guild to give WSB the benefit of the doubt.. I’m actually humming and hawing over whether to do just that now. But really, how can I?
You say you’ve changed and apologize for all these things, yet you did RP crashing just a few hours ago. :/


Oh, man. I didn't know it went down like that. I mean, I knew they showed up, but I didn't know about the rest of it. That's really discouraging. I liked what I was hearing, but words don't mean a thing without the actions to back them up.
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Welll.. ... ...who am i supposed to slap now?

Return's post does makes a lot of sense.

I guess..

My problem is the whole point/belief/respect that WSB even had was their strength to never apologize for what they did and stand by their gutsy attitude for wpvp at any cost. When you rip the stubbornness off of that and apologize, it just comes off weak and awkward.

I think you'd need to make a new guild or name change to get the results you're looking for. A reputation like that doesnt change or sway, people will 'give you a chance' ultimately but they'll always have that !@#$ty attitude in the back of their heads just waiting for you to prove them wrong by screwing up once.

Another problem is, how do you expect an entire server to "accept" an apology from one leader when the real issue on the forums back during the end of cata were the actual members? I think people would need to hear that THEY have changed their attitude or been kicked out. We asked for a big purging of the bad members when all the RP griefing happened, nobody was ever kicked. The old school members would constantly bash RP events and spout gay slurs at people every day, nothing was ever apologized for by those members for their actions. Attaktix in general is probably the worst attitude a player could have and the major problem on your guild's current roster. A lot of members actually already left and joined the exodus or the defilers, bummer for those guilds.

I'm sorry to say I can't accept an apology from some one who didn't do it: Himanshu wasn't the problem. Himanshu was just the leader held responsible... the a-hole members who got to run around and do whatever they wanted has always been the problem and I don't see a single one of them in this thread apologizing. And as I already stated, it's unfortunate that a lot of those members aren't on your roster anymore to apologize for what's happened-- the taint stays with the guild tag not the individuals responsible.

@Himanshu. you can't do what you've done to every one for years, make one apology, then leave. I think you'd earn a lot more respect staying leader and changing your guild, changing their minds, changing the atittude, showing some honor and respect to the wpvp community through your actions and not one word as you walk out the door. It's really easy to say sorry and leave, it's not easy to face up to your wrongdoings, stick around and prove us wrong by changing the guild that you led into such a terrible reputation by letting your friends do whatever a-hole thing they wanted to do with no regrets.

Personally, I think Ruvin and Luna seem like nice people and players. Thrilled that they're trying to do what they're doing... but I think they don't deserve to have that terrible guild tag. That's the main problem. The reformers should just reform out of the battalion. A few nice players apologizing and keeping the douches that were douches in the guild doesn't change things.

11/18/2012 09:37 PMPosted by Sabotèur
We should crash the event with 400 alliance, and then /spit on their bodies.


I honestly hope AEC grows a pair and does this, it's what a guild with that history deserves.
Edited by Briggo on 11/19/2012 12:35 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10395
Goodbye Himanshu! You wont be missed ;) <3 <3 <3
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90 Night Elf Priest
8445


Sorry you got affected so negatively about all of this!
D:


http://www.dudelol.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/robert-!@#$%-please.jpg

Those that know me, know I don't get butt hurt over pew pew and I'm all for it. I took the time to write that post for those people sitting on the fence, so they can see the whole picture. Don't tell me your sorry and you are reforming with a new attitude - when the old attitude is clearly still present and accounted for.

Thing is, Return really showed me up. I think his posts should be mandatory reading.

Believe it or not, I don't have a beef with WSB. I really could care less what your guildies do or don't do. I have fun killing you guys now and again, just as I'm sure you guys have your fun.

I just don't like hypocrisy.
Edited by Dycern on 11/19/2012 1:32 PM PST
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90 Tauren Death Knight
10290
This event will make everyones minds up! Be prepared, the true WSB will be here :)!
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90 Night Elf Priest
8445
This event -and the days/weeks/months ahead- will make everyone's minds up! Be prepared, the true WSB will be here :)!


Fix't.

And here is hoping you can prove us skeptics wrong.
Now I really must get back to work. XD
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