Why we need to see LFR boss status part 2

90 Pandaren Monk
12885
This is a continuation from http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200302669 since it reached its limit.

By removing the status, you have managed to fix one problem only to create another problem for players, which is basically an endless cycle.

Here's an example:
Player 1 gets into a 3/4 run. They decide to join it, then down the 1 boss in there. After that, they then again queue to complete the other 3 bosses, then they leave before the raid goes to the 4th boss. Player 2 gets into there, he kills that one boss, then queues into another fresh run. He then leaves after the third boss is dead. Then Player 3 gets to go into a partial run, you get my point from here.

Yea this just keeps on going, and is highly inconvenient for players who have to wait for a longer duration of time to get into the raids since now we have to deal with two queues (it's really no fun just waiting around for the queue btw).
Edited by Ragesfury on 11/29/2012 5:29 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
13505
I fail to see how this is a problem. 2x20 min queues are more inconvenient than 1x1 hour queue?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
11965
The problem isn't getting people to join queues that are already in progress - the problem is stopping people from leaving LFR's in progress.

What Blizz did will not stop -anyone- from leaving an LFR they think is doomed. They'll take the debuff and sit out, then just re-queue and repeat the same issues. All this does is waste people's time. Honestly, if I only have an hour or two to get a section of LFR done, and I have to spend 40 minutes in queue for a 2/6 run, it's not fair to me. I shouldn't be penalized for some other loser's decision that a 30 minute debuff is better than that raid group.

What they SHOULD do is raise the debuff to an hour, and make you forfeit your valor if you leave. I know this is super extreme, but it needs to outweigh the pro's of leaving a queue. /shrug

Also, for those of you who will claim they won't leave because they won't want to face a 2/6 queue next time they try and queue up, get real. People will keep queuing/re-queuing until they get -exactly- what they want.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9390
As the OP to the original capped thread, I did read all 26 pages of replies and I wanted to respond to a couple:

IDK what the big problem is with you people. I love it when I get into one that is in progress. I get the valor points for doing half a raid. Then The next time I queue it puts in in a fresh raid.

The people that leave after a wipe and scan lfr progress when they queue to find a fresh raid are to blame, OP you sound like you were a cause to the problem not a solution. Just finish the damn raid and queue for a new one to get the bosses you missed.


I think you misunderstood. I have absolutely NO problem accepting a 2/6 or a 2/4 or whatever when it's the first time I do the raid for that week. The order in which I kill the bosses makes no difference to me; if it's my first run of the week, I'm more than happy to help out a raid in progress, regardless of why they're 2/6 or 2/4 (wiping, people leaving, whatever, I don't care, I'll still join it).

HOWEVER, after I complete those remaining 1 or 2 bosses, is it selfish to expect a fresh raid next time I queue so that I can fairly kill the first 1 or 2 bosses that I haven't killed yet? I don't think this makes me "entitled" at all. After I help out that raid and then the next one I get is also 2/6 or 2/4... Well, my patience fades at that point. I port into the raid, see that I've already killed the remaining bosses and have NO chance at loot (or even gold) from any of them, so I want to port and hopefully get a fresh queue, but now I'm stuck waiting for the 30 minute buff to wear off? This makes no sense whatsoever.

People are being punished just for being unlucky with the RNG/queue system. A lot of people are misunderstanding and thinking that those people who are unhappy with this change are people who ALWAYS want a 0/6 fresh raid, or who are selfish, entitled, etc. Quite the opposite. Many of us are more than willing to join a raid in progress IF the next one we join is guaranteed to give us the bosses we still need. Sadly, this is NOT the case.

11/29/2012 03:39 PMPosted by Dayuv
I'd just like to say Blizzard that this change was a great idea, and 90% of the people who think its a bad change just don't understand how LFR queues work.


This just made me laugh, I'm sorry. Please enlighten me on what I'm not understanding. LFR is basically a PUG. I always give the first raid a shot, whether it's in progress or not. However with this new change, AFTER I complete that first raid, I'm not given the chance to see if it's another in-progress, and I have to leave it up to "gambling" on whether or not I'm going to A) get the fresh raid I need; B) spend 10-20-30 minutes killing a boss(es) I've already killed; C) spend 30-45 minutes wiping on a boss I've already killed due to having a bad raid composition; or D) leaving and being stuck with a 30 minute penalty before I can queue again (effectively 55 minutes before I can join a new raid).

I can give a horse's patoot about Valor points, because I'm almost always capped after doing my dailies and some other LFR's by Friday, so taking an extra 30 minutes (either by debuff or by trudging through bosses I've already killed) is a very inefficient way to spend my already limited playtime. Anyone who says "a good person will complete a raid for the benefit of others, even if they get no loot or benefit themselves" is being incredibly dense. It has nothing to do with being a good person; it is simply human nature and you cannot fault a person for wanting to spend their time in a way that is most beneficial to them. As someone with limited playtime, it's not my job to "suck it up" and repeat the same content over and over just because someone else decided his time was more valuable and left/deserted.

I will reiterate - many of us would NOT have a problem with the status being hidden IF we were GUARANTEED a fresh raid after completing an in-progress raid. "ALMOST" or "VERY CLOSE" to guaranteed is just not enough. For those of you who claim to "always" get a fresh raid the second time, consider yourselves very lucky, because this is NOT the case for everyone.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16975
People seem to be forgetting that we're talking about LFR. LFR!! There's nothing there for people to get all worked up about and demand perfectly aligned raids with perfect one-shot bosses.

L F R - it's our "ooh looky, we're in a f'ing raid!" with easier versions of the fights but we get to see the insides of the raid instance. I love it but I know why I'm queueing. Why are some of the people acting like the new queues for LFR is stifling their game? Wasting their time waiting on queues? Hello, hello can you hear me? This an MMO - this is a Time Sink which mean a waster of time. Like watching TV or playing...games.

Blizz just made it easier for us to get into the easy raids and get them all done easily. Just what the hell are you all freaking out over?

Go in when the queue pops, play nicely with others, kill the bosses and go on with your wow-lives. It's so not a big deal.

ps. Original OP: emphatically demanding guarantees is not going to work. Did you ever watch Tommy Boy? If Blizzard fixes it so it's guaranteed to be a fresh LFR when you go in the second time, how long do you think you'll have to wait? And do you need a guarantee that those 25 people can actually kill the raid bosses? What if they wipe and call the raid? How many times is the guarantee going to work? Are you gonna play WoW until you die IRL?
Edited by Vixie on 11/29/2012 6:10 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
9330
11/29/2012 05:28 PMPosted by Ragesfury
By removing the status, you have managed to fix one problem only to create another problem for players, which is basically an endless cycle.


Is that actually happening, with players trapped in this cycle, or is this what could happen?
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50 Gnome Warlock
765
11/29/2012 05:34 PMPosted by Shaolinaan
I fail to see how this is a problem. 2x20 min queues are more inconvenient than 1x1 hour queue?


When I can do other things during that queue? Yes, it is more inconvenient.
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50 Gnome Warlock
765
Is that actually happening, with players trapped in this cycle, or is this what could happen?


It's what is happening. Tanks and healers particularly are stuck running the same bosses over and over again because we're stuck with what we're given, tanks especially given there's only room for 2 of us a run, and those are the positions most likely to leave or be kicked if a group wipes.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12885
It's a cycle that will happen, Voron. As I said earlier, Player 1 gets into a 3/4 run. He kills the 4th boss, then queues up for another to kill the first 3 bosses. Player 1 has no use for the 4th boss since he will receive neither loot or gold, so he decides to leave. Player 2 is then brought into the raid for the 4th boss. Player 2 then kills the 4th boss, then queues up for the first 3 bosses. Rinse and repeat.
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50 Gnome Warlock
765
11/29/2012 05:47 PMPosted by Vixie
Why are some of the people acting like the new queues for LFR is stifling their game?


Because my time is valuable, and Blizzard expecting me to run the same LFR several times over just to get the bosses I'm missing because other players are awful is a detriment to my time.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10105
In reply to Bashiok's post about their somewhat dubious logic behind the change...

Not to be a jerk, Bashiok, but your explanation is exceptionally shortsighted. You see, the biggest problem is that the VP reward based on the time it takes is exceptionally low. When I do LFR, I'm still trying to grab some upgrades - the slow gain of VP, even taking into consideration all of the dailies, really doesn't work. (Don't get me started on how hiding things behind a rep wall, AGAIN, is utterly silly).

Anyways, with this new change it means that I'm either going to require getting lucky, or end up queuing again - and waiting at least 20 minutes. If I leave the group, then I'm stuck with an exceptionally silly 30 minute deserter.

I can understand where you are coming from, but they are from a very, very narrow viewpoint. While I don't believe it's underhanded (since I know everything pertaining to the game is very closely tracked), I do believe that you are overstating some perceived problem. As someone who has played a long time, I know that often players are wrong, but other times developers have also been extraordinarily wrong. This is one of those times.

Please consider reverting the change, or at the very least allowing it to be accessible by addons, so those of us with a premium on raid playtime can complete a full raid, and not worry about rolling the dice on getting something done, especially when being stuck behind a deserter debuff and longer queue times. It really does make no sense for the largest portion of the population.
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90 Pandaren Monk
13505
11/29/2012 05:52 PMPosted by Ragesfury
It's a cycle that will happen, Voron. As I said earlier, Player 1 gets into a 3/4 run. He kills the 4th boss, then queues up for another to kill the first 3 bosses. Player 1 has no use for the 4th boss since he will receive neither loot or gold, so he decides to leave. Player 2 is then brought into the raid for the 4th boss. Player 2 then kills the 4th boss, then queues up for the first 3 bosses. Rinse and repeat.


And as long as the cycle continues, everyone gets to kill each boss once. Why is that a problem?

There only a problem when the cycle breaks, e.g. player 2 requeues and gets another 3/4 run. I hope something is done about that. But when it doesn't break, what problem?
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90 Human Warlock
11700
So, suggestion that really should keep everyone happy (although I doubt it will as there will always be someone out there selfish enough to want everything just right for them and only them)

First run of each LFR, you don't see progress.
After completion, you do see progress, so you can be sure you're getting in a fresh run after and only after you've already finished it once.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16975
11/29/2012 05:53 PMPosted by Bomdanil
Why are some of the people acting like the new queues for LFR is stifling their game?


Because my time is valuable, and Blizzard expecting me to run the same LFR several times over just to get the bosses I'm missing because other players are awful is a detriment to my time.


What kind of egotistical pompous hel...oh it's you Bomdanil.

Your time in-game is worth exactly the same as the guy standing next to you and everyone on your realm and EVERYONE playing the game around the world - give or take a few cents for the people who know how to shop for a deal.

My fifty cents a day says lmao to your fifty cents a day, Bomboy.
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90 Worgen Warlock
7275
Boss kills that do not reward you gear or bags should give flasks, potions, etcera.

Gold in bags should be increased, and they should award flasks and banquets and such as well.

I already stay and kill off a boss or two I'm not eligible for loot from because I'd rather not stick someone with a 2/3 so they can go complain about it when there are ways to avoid it with a fair degree of certainty (provided you are not forever alone).
Edited by Qaira on 11/29/2012 6:21 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10260
I think it's time to get rid of LFR, or at least get rid of the loot drops. Let it drop points, some gold and maybe mounts or pets.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12605
The only really irritating parts about it involves:

1) Non-stop chatter of "WUT BOS U GUYZ ON" as we lose and gain people. At least pop up a counter AFTER new people zone in. Some people still are new to the fights and it's a pain to explain the fights amidst everyone trying to figure out where the raid is at.

2) Though it 'prefers' to queue people who finish a 2/3 into a 0/3 LFR once they finish the first queue, that still has a decent chance of just throwing you at another 2/3 anyway. My roommate finished a 2/3 MV second half, then got 5 different 2/3 MV second half queues afterwards. The loony finished every single 2/3 queue, and the carrot that is the first two bosses are still out of his reach.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8575
A much easier fix would be to offer a satchel like you do to tanks/heals in LFD if someone agrees to join an incomplete raid.
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90 Human Hunter
8900
11/29/2012 06:47 PMPosted by Kurannan
A much easier fix would be to offer a satchel like you do to tanks/heals in LFD if someone agrees to join an incomplete raid.
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