Enraged Regen, Second Wind, or Impending Vic

90 Blood Elf Warrior
3070
What do the forums suggest? I've tried all 3, but I'm kind of a low 90 as in I haven't been 90 long, and I am wondering which is best for what? All have worked really well while leveling, I've used them all. But like I intend to farm some old Raid Dungeons like Black Wing Lair for Tier 2 Pally Armor, and Perhaps even go after Tier 5 for Transmogrification. I've heard both Second Wind and Enraged Regen are good for soloing old content. But then there's Heorics, and Raids? What's best for them. Basically which is best for soloing old content as a Prot Warrior, and what's best for getting Heorics and possibly Raids done right?

I leave it to you, the experts to guide me.

*humbly bows*
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90 Undead Warrior
15325
I use Impending Victory. Admittedly, I'm sort of a noob with this ability and forget to use it most of the time, likely because I am trying to funnel my rage towards mitigation or damage.

I picked up Second Wind for Heroic Garalon to see if was useful since Garalon crushes and stuns the raid every 30 seconds, but I did not find it to be a useful ability.

I don't like Enraged Regeneration because it consumes a lot of rage and has a longer CD. If you don't want it to consume rage, you have to wait for the right condition. I don't like waiting for that condition unless it's a multi mob fight like Wind Lord where more mobs attacking you ensures that you will have a high uptime on enrage.
Edited by Freese on 12/1/2012 4:15 PM PST
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94 Pandaren Warrior
16150
Second wind for soloing old content.

anything but second wind for relevant content.
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100 Human Warrior
12260
Oh this thread.

/popcorn
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
3070
Second wind for soloing old content.

anything but second wind for relevant content.


Thank you. That answers the brunt of my question. Seems like it's kind of up in the air between Enraged Regen and Impending Victory for Heroics/Raids etc... So far, unless anyone else would like to chime in on that. Or give a second opinion on what to use for soloing older content.
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94 Pandaren Warrior
16150
Sparkles about to come talk about how much better ER is and how IV is bad.

But either way second wind blows everything out the water for questing/soloing old content, if it does less than like 6% of your health per second you're basically invincible.
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90 Undead Warrior
15325
12/01/2012 02:03 PMPosted by Sparklefever
Enraged Regen hasn't consumed Enrage effects for months now.


derp. Thanks for that. Edited my original post.
Edited by Freese on 12/1/2012 4:12 PM PST
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100 Draenei Warrior
14190
Second wind for soloing old content.

anything but second wind for relevant content.


This. Whether you use ER or IV is up to you really. Personally, I think ER's pretty neat and also, I keep forgetting to hit IV when I probably should. But there's nothing wrong with IV.

Regardless, SW really isn't much use outside soloing crap.
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Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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100 Human Warlock
18665
12/01/2012 08:13 PMPosted by Waniou
Regardless, SW really isn't much use outside soloing crap.

But damned if it isn't amazing for that.
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90 Orc Warrior
10130
12/01/2012 08:13 PMPosted by Waniou
Regardless, SW really isn't much use outside soloing crap.


I strongly disagree with this statement.

Take a raid buffed tank at approximately 600K health in a heroic dungeon. When they reach 35%, they have 210K health remaining. They will heal 18K health per second.

On Tsluong, in the new raid instance on 10N, melees for 80-100K. This means that you will take around 7 hits to die without healing. If you get close to dying, Second Wind will heal back 20% of a melee hit. That is some serious mitigation, and it's coming when you need it the most! But maybe that's just one boss.

Sha of Fear on 10N melees for approximately 100K. Same general area of mitigation.

Grand Empress hits harder--around 100K-120K. But still, you're talking about passively regenerating 1/6th of the damage for any melee swing.

I don't understand why people are talking down this talent. Yes, it will have lower heals per minute than the other two, and it won't be under your control. However, those are both good things. It performs stronger when you're need it the most and you don't have the time to use it. At the end of the day, this talent is very similar to, but not as powerful as, Ardent Defender or Will of the Necropolis. It's not as good because it's only healing, rather than damage prevention, but it will still have lower overheal and contribute more to your survival--especially on 10 man.

Telling people not to take the talent before you even ask them which content they're raiding seems shortsighted to me.
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94 Pandaren Warrior
16150
12/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Zarko
This means that you will take around 7 hits to die without healing


Except if you take 7 melee hits without a heal you really need some new healers. (and thats assuming you avoid and block nothing, I make the same assumption later but I don't really care)

Unless things are going horribly wrong or its a specific type of fight/phase (Blade lord p2), you won't be sitting below 35%.

In theory its good. In practice if you're belong 35% long enough for it to be good theres something seriously wrong happening, if you're only dipping that low here and there, you can just use ER/IV or some other CD when you get that low. If you're dipping to 35% constantly either your healers are worthless or people are standing in bad.

Also, using your example of a 100k melee hit on a 600k health tank-

210k health.
-100k (110k)
2x SW ticks (146k)
-100k (46k)
2x SW ticks (82k)
-100k

With the right timing, you could live 1 extra hit. But like i said, you shouldn't be being melee'd 3 times in a row under 35% with no healing, and even if you did, if you took 3 full hits without 1 heal you'll probably take more. Sure, its automatic and "Won't overheal", but for the most part it won't be meaningful.

EDIT: This also assumes nothing but pure 2 second melee hits are happening.

On fights where the incoming damage and incoming healing is low and you can just hover for a while its FANTASTIC. A prot warrior with second wind basically doesn't need to be healed in blade lord p2 except for accidental effloressence/HR/etc, but those situations are outliers. Even on madness i could potentially have a use to not get gibbed by the post-impale melee, but most fights you shouldn't be below 35% that much.

To make a highly flawed analogy, It's sort of like AMS. When its good, its REALLY good, but when its not, its pretty meh.
Edited by Ðemolition on 12/1/2012 10:09 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
13640
On Tsluong, in the new raid instance on 10N, melees for 80-100K. This means that you will take around 7 hits to die without healing. If you get close to dying, Second Wind will heal back 20% of a melee hit. That is some serious mitigation, and it's coming when you need it the most!


The problem with Second Wind, in my mind, is that it's hardly ever just boss melee that kills a tank.

Sha of Fear isn't going to take you below 35% with normal melee; it's going to be a Thrash. On Tsulong, it's going to be melee + high Dread Shadows + Shadow Breath. On Shekzeer it's going to be melee swings right when a Dissonance Field detonates or something.

Second Wind's two big advantages are:

1) No cooldown. But since they require something more than "melee", most of the time these dangerous moments don't just happen constantly - there's usually time in between, which obviously increases the value of ER/IV since you can apply them to a greater proportion of the moments.

2) It doesn't need to be triggered. But, again, most of the time the danger moments are pretty well telegraphed since they involve a particular mechanic or combination of mechanics, so this isn't as significant advantage as you might think.

For transparency's sake, I should say that I'm a 25-man raider, so perhaps I've got a skewed view of the kinds of dangerous moments I'm discussing above. But if anything I'd think that on 10-man it's only more true that tank survivability is really only tested by those big damage attacks (or the combination of melee swings + widespread raid damage) since boss melee is tuned for so many fewer healers on 10-man.

Basically, I fully agree that in situations where you're (a) regularly being taken below 35% and (b) it's due to small, relatively infrequent damage packets (e.g. 80-100k every 2 seconds or so) Second Wind is a good choice. I just don't think that many raiding situations actually involve a+b.
Edited by Branar on 12/1/2012 10:10 PM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
10130
12/01/2012 09:44 PMPosted by Ðemolition
. But like i said, you shouldn't be being melee'd 3 times in a row under 35% with no healing, and even if you did, if you took 3 full hits without 1 heal you'll probably take more. Sure, its automatic and "Won't overheal", but for the most part it won't be meaningful.


This is very true--most of the time it won't be meaningful. But it will be meaningful more often than the small heal provided by Impending Victory, and it will fire automatically, rather than with someone !@#$ing up their rotation to get it.

But if anything I'd think that on 10-man it's only more true that tank survivability is really only tested by those big damage attacks (or the combination of melee swings + widespread raid damage) since boss melee is tuned for so many fewer healers on 10-man.


Tanks die for two reasons: Either boss mechanics or healers switching off to raid at the wrong time.

What Waniou, Demolition and Branar are arguing is basically that tanks should never die on 10 mans unless it was due to mechanics. However, we know that tanks do die beyond just mechanics. Only one of the talents in that tier gives you a decent chance to help with those kinds of deaths.

I mean, it's not a big deal either way (and probably not a great choice for heroics), and the only real reason I'm replying is because people are being awfully dogmatic above without doing the work to justify the dogma.

Ad asperum aestimare fimi aliquid hodie
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100 Draenei Warrior
14190
So just did 10 man normal Stone Guards. Second Wind ticked 7 times over the course of the fight, doing a total of 99k healing. None of those ticks were noticed by me.

Now, I should point out, this is only Stone Guards but still. It's kinda lacklustre right now.

What Waniou, Demolition and Branar are arguing is basically that tanks should never die on 10 mans unless it was due to mechanics. However, we know that tanks do die beyond just mechanics. Only one of the talents in that tier gives you a decent chance to help with those kinds of deaths.
So do the other two, and they do a better job of it.

Also, tanks shouldn't be dying due to boss's melee swings, because that implies healers aren't doing anything.

EDIT: Second Wind didn't proc at all on Feng.
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Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
Edited by Waniou on 12/1/2012 11:08 PM PST
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100 Human Warlock
18665
12/01/2012 10:33 PMPosted by Zarko
the only real reason I'm replying is because people are being awfully dogmatic above without doing the work to justify the dogma.


Also, using your example of a 100k melee hit on a 600k health tank-

210k health.
-100k (110k)
2x SW ticks (146k)
-100k (46k)
2x SW ticks (82k)
-100k

With the right timing, you could live 1 extra hit. But like i said, you shouldn't be being melee'd 3 times in a row under 35% with no healing, and even if you did, if you took 3 full hits without 1 heal you'll probably take more. Sure, its automatic and "Won't overheal", but for the most part it won't be meaningful.

:/
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90 Orc Warrior
10130
12/01/2012 10:58 PMPosted by Waniou
Also, tanks shouldn't be dying due to boss's melee swings, because that implies healers aren't doing anything.


This is a very silly statement. If what you're saying is true, it's an argument that tanks should never ever die in 10N. And yet we know that tanks do die in 10N. Sometimes they die to melee swings with less than 18K overkill.

12/01/2012 10:58 PMPosted by Waniou
So do the other two, and they do a better job of it.


No, they don't. Each of the other two abilities require you to push a button, and each has a cooldown. In addition, both cost rage (10), making it theoretically possible that you not be able to use them when you need it.

The only metric that they do a better job on is HPS, and that is a terrible metric to use.

Edit: @ the alt above me: That isn't work. That's bull!@#$ting.
Edited by Zarko on 12/1/2012 11:20 PM PST
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100 Tauren Druid
14275
12/01/2012 11:20 PMPosted by Zarko
Each of the other two abilities require you to push a button,

The horror.

Sorry, but bringing up Sha of Fear lost you credibility when even in your low damage/high health example, he would be easily able to leapfrog your last 35% health with a thrash.
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100 Draenei Warrior
14190
This is a very silly statement. If what you're saying is true, it's an argument that tanks should never ever die in 10N. And yet we know that tanks do die in 10N. Sometimes they die to melee swings with less than 18K overkill.
... What?

Let me clarify my statement. Tanks shouldn't die to only melee swings. Other things are happening around them.

No, they don't. Each of the other two abilities require you to push a button, and each has a cooldown. In addition, both cost rage (10), making it theoretically possible that you not be able to use them when you need it.
And both of them heal for an actually noticeable amount. Also, you really shouldn't be below 10 rage very much.
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Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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