Holy vs Disc

90 Blood Elf Priest
12465
With the recent buffs in 5.1 Holy definitely has a lot more output that it can put out, but even now priests are fight dependent upon why you would be Holy or Disc. If there is nothing more than spike damage every so often throughout a fight than id say Disc 100% of the way. Or take Garalon for example where there is constant heavy AOE damage. In this fight specifically Holy outshines all classes or so in my experience since 5.1. With that being said, even with to 10% buff to chakras I feel that Holy is still as unforgiving as ever with mana. If you don't rotate your CDs next to perfectly you continually find yourself looking for mana. Maybe not so much the entire fight, but by the final 25% I am literally OOM. I do find a way to scramble some things throughout the raid to make it last the remaining of the fight but only barely. At that point if the raid were to trigger a crush or a retarded pass of the pheromones the raid is next to screwed.

My biggest question is that throughout the entire time priests existed they both had 1 additional way to regen mana. Disc has rapture. which even with current gear levels is little more than a free bubble with the mana return unless u have a ton of spirit. Holy on the other hand did have a 30% increase to spirit or mana regen through spirit( sorry the name of the buff escapes me). Is there any intention to give this back to the Holy priest? Or at the very least a smaller equivalent of the above mentioned talent? As is Disc is a far more appealing healing spec due to its far superior mana regen and forgiving mana regen, as Holy has non
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12945
You're talking about Holy Concentration and yes it's absolutely retarded that holy doesn't have it. Disc will continue to remain superior until this is addressed.

Another idea I had was to give Hymn of Hope to Holy Priests only something along the lines of:

Hymn of Hope - 3 min cooldown - instant cast
Increases you and your raid's total mana by 15% for 10 sec, while also restoring 12% of their mana over 15 sec. As a holy priest you receive 18% of your mana.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12465
Ya I agree that wouldn't be to bad of a trade off. Just holy lacks to ability to remain for an entire fight. In terms of the buff they received I don't think they needed it. In my personal opinion they can take away a partial if not the entire buff they gave to chakra just to get some mana regen
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Hymn of Hope - 3 min cooldown - instant cast
Increases you and your raid's total mana by 15% for 10 sec, while also restoring 12% of their mana over 15 sec. As a holy priest you receive 18% of your mana.


They would need to make sure that it only affected the priest casting. I believe the spell is currently balanced around the fact that it can affect multiple members of the raid.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
Hymn of Hope - 3 min cooldown - instant cast
Increases you and your raid's total mana by 15% for 10 sec, while also restoring 12% of their mana over 15 sec. As a holy priest you receive 18% of your mana.


They would need to make sure that it only affected the priest casting. I believe the spell is currently balanced around the fact that it can affect multiple members of the raid.


Well, MTT affects everyone in the raid. :/

HoH is pretty much the worst regen mechanic in game right now. It's pretty much only worth using if multiple priests are popping it at the same time, or if you're using it to get more regen from your shadowy friend.

It would be much better if HoH was restricted to healing priests (or Holy) and did the same thing MTT does. It wouldn't bench Shaman, because their utility goes well beyond MTT. I'm sure some people would cry homogenization, but I'd rather deal with them than with Holy's mana issues.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12465
Well my issue isn't so much of orienting around HoH. Just give us back our passive spirit buff that we have had since I started a priest in BC/LK cant say I really remember. Holy priests didn even need a healing buff. Their mana regen is just such crap that the heal amounts they can put out now is next to worthless
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90 Human Priest
13570
I think you're all blowing our regen regen problems way out of proportion. Is our regen worse than every other healer's? Absolutely. Is it crippling and debilitating? Absolutely not.

The only time I find myself running on fumes is if other people on my team are screwing up. If they aren't, things go swimmingly. On Garalon, for example, a fight where my team only beats the enrage by 20 or so seconds, I still am able to sustain my mana throughout the entire fight. Using Power Infusion, Mindbender, Hymn of Hope, and Potions of Focus appropriately is of the utmost importance.
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90 Night Elf Priest
17620
Using Power Infusion, Mindbender, Hymn of Hope, and Potions of Focus appropriately is of the utmost importance.

You should never use PI over Divine Insight as Holy. Especially on Garalon, on which PoM is particularly amazing.
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90 Human Priest
10890
DI makes you go oom faster and PI will give you extra attacks on your mindbender, extra ticks on DH and HoH while reducing your mana costs as well. I find Holy has great throughput but no matter what I do, I can never cast even CLOSE to as much as I cast as Disc.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12435
Mindbender only benefits from melee haste and PI gives spell haste. DH and HoH no longer receive extra ticks from haste.
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90 Pandaren Priest
12965
Do you at least time your SF or Mindbender with your trinket? I haven't played holy much (mostly because I don't like how Chakra works, but that's a rant for another day), but I would think if you time them together, it's a sizable amount of mana regained. I just prefer Mindbender since I can have that and my trinket go off at the same time. ^_^
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90 Human Priest
2440
12/04/2012 10:34 PMPosted by Synariel
Using Power Infusion, Mindbender, Hymn of Hope, and Potions of Focus appropriately is of the utmost importance.

You should never use PI over Divine Insight as Holy. Especially on Garalon, on which PoM is particularly amazing.


This is true.

I will agree about Holy mana issues... I'm just not seeing a gamebreaking problem.

I prefer Holy... I added a Disc spec and raided last night with it for the first time and I found it a bit overwhelming. I'm more of a reactive player and Holy is definitely more my style.

Disc will take some getting used to... right now I'm not finding it all that appealing or fun.
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90 Pandaren Priest
5635
I agree on Holy mana problems too.

But the truth is....if you want to continue your raid progress...stay on discipline. At least blizz changes holy.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8450
I couldn't agree more. I would gladly trade the 10% buff to chakras for some changes to holy priest mana regen.
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90 Human Priest
16885
My o's:
- Bulk of disc OPness is stemming from rapture. There are tons of people already talking about why.
- Absorb cheesing was possible before this patch, it's just becoming common in your raids because disc has too much mana at their disposal.
- I'm using holy a lot more for heroic progression than I did for normal modes. So it's not broken by any means.
- I still want to change chakra stances more often.
- Circle of healing is still too weak. Before the flames, check: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200050232
- Better coefficients on pw:sanctuary yet? Please?
- minor irritation, but renew is both a single target and an aoe spell. Can they please just do the same healing in both chakras (and can it get a buff)?
Edited by Twistedmind on 12/7/2012 2:43 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
16885
Other people are saying stuffs:
Disc http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320002159
Holy http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200034671
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5365
I actually find disc has more mana problems than holy. Yes, holy has less regen, but it also requires less mana to keep up. Granted, I just swapped to disc (we're on 4th boss of HoF, and disc is perfect for it).

I run 7k spirit when i'm holy, not including two spirit trinkets, and am completely fine.
Edited by Nialeen on 12/7/2012 6:19 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10740
I tend to get better numbers out of Holy, but in large part to me being, thus far, not so amazing at Spirit Shell. My gear is optimized for disc a lot more, too. I think the issue is too many fights with not enough burst for me. Heart of Fear has a few fights, etc.

I haven't had serious mana issues in either spec on any fight, and my priest is current 6/16 HM with about a 382 iLvL. I do get really low on Empress normal, for example. Protectors I get a little low, feeling like disc is better there since Atonement is strong.

Oh and I was loving Atonement for Heroic Elegon. I was even able to keep up quite a bit of Smite spam through the last phase because it just does that much healing. Straight PoH would have broke off higher HPS but I felt like pushing the deeps was a better idea. It is pretty fun watching those weird numbers fly around.
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90 Human Priest
13380
- Bulk of disc OPness is stemming from rapture. There are tons of people already talking about why.


Agree. They shouldn't be able to spam PoH all fight simply to put DA on everyone, and not care if the actual heal is doing anything. Thankfully my guild has finally started heroic progression, so not having anything to heal is less of an issue, but on some normal fights I just sit there watching our Disc spam PoH all fight because I literally have nothing to do.

- I'm using holy a lot more for heroic progression than I did for normal modes. So it's not broken by any means


Good to know. Does your guild run another Disc Priest though?

12/07/2012 02:39 AMPosted by Twistedmind
- I still want to change chakra stances more often.


I wish they would either just get rid of the CD so I can macro it to my spells, or get rid of it entirely. Granted with a lower CD it would be easier to switch, as now it can be such a pain some fights (Lei Shi comes to mind), it just puts a needless constraint that no other healer has. They got rid of stance dancing for Warriors, so now they're going to give it to us? Seems contrary to their design philosophy. Then again we did get a terrible version of Shaman's Telluric Currents in Solace.

12/07/2012 02:39 AMPosted by Twistedmind
- Circle of healing is still too weak


I'm not sure I agree. I did read your link, and you do make some good points, but the instant, smart-heal nature of this spell still has me use it nearly on CD.

12/07/2012 02:39 AMPosted by Twistedmind
- Better coefficients on pw:sanctuary yet? Please?


Yeah, spell is garbage right now. Either buff it, or lower the mana costs by a ton so it's not a waste to put it down.

12/07/2012 06:31 AMPosted by Aani
I haven't had serious mana issues in either spec on any fight, and my priest is current 6/16 HM with about a 382 iLvL


I don't have too may mana issues as Holy either, but I think this can be attributed in a large part to who your other healers are. I tend to have two Shaman in raid (Mana Tide Totem is the single greatest spell ever), and a Disc Priest. That is a lot of outside regen. We also have a monk, so that is just a lot of raw hps output that makes me heal less. Disc is even worse in that regard with those damn shields.
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