Does not understand Garrosh hate.

90 Human Warrior
13605
12/04/2012 09:01 AMPosted by Dotbots
As you said Azshara was home to a ton of evil. Once that evil was cleared, the night elves came back to "save the trees," or whatever is their schtick these days. The Horde is using Azshara, but once again - we see a lot of night elves all over the place again.


I actually believe it's because the war was already going on at this point, because the developments in Azshara are fairly recent. Of course Night elves would say they are doing it for nature for justification. Everyone uses bogus high ideals to rally up the troops to inspire them. If the Night elves believe the safety of nature hinges on their victory, they're more likely to throw themselves over the walls of Orgrimmar as they do.

The orcs sought out Ashenvale because of a deep spite they already held for the Night elves.

12/04/2012 09:01 AMPosted by Dotbots
As for TB, it takes a long, long time to transport goods from TB to Org.


It does, but it is a better alternative than conquest if peace is one's goal. Garrosh had to import water because the goblins polluted their own. If water has to be imported because of necessity, so can crops. It takes awhile, figuratively speaking, to import crops from one side of the country to the other but we do it anyway. And I imagine this process could be expedited with the help of goblins who use refrigerators to keep goods cold if needed and use Zepplins to ferry goods over land faster.

As I said, this is mostly the fault of Thrall who did not look into these matters. He did not consider it, because he's not a good leader. He's a good shaman, but he was the only person at the time to lead the Orcs from internment to Kalimdor. Now his usefulness has been fulfilled and it's time to find a new leader, and unfortunately Garrosh does not seem to be the one either.

And of course, SOMEONE had to be handed the idiot/villain ball in order to get the full scale faction conflict rolling. It just happened to be the Horde. If everyone acted with clarity, it's unlikely war would still be going on. Unless of course they did make the Alliance screw with the Horde to spur it on, but then you'd just be giving them the villain ball, and etc.
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90 Human Warlock
13830
Thunderbluff is actually situated pretty well, Mulgore could have a lot of agriculture and development if the Tauren would let it happen.



Again, who besides Vyrin what are you talking about?


Sorry. I'm just talking about Vyrin. Haha. No, but really, I don't mean consistent posters - I mean the people who come here once a month/two months to fanboy whatever is the flavor of the month for them.

TB could have a lot of development - but in terms of strategic positioning, not really (militarily).

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I don't get all the Thrall hate. Everyone loved him before the Garrosh debacle. Garrosh would have been fine except Blizzard decided to take a dump on their lore. I hardly think you can hate on Thrall for this.

As you said Azshara was home to a ton of evil. Once that evil was cleared, the night elves came back to "save the trees," or whatever is their schtick these days. The Horde is using Azshara, but once again - we see a lot of night elves all over the place again.

As for TB, it takes a long, long time to transport goods from TB to Org.


I dislike Thrall because he's as ineffectual a leader as Bolvar was, except Bolvar had his faculties scrambled by Onyxia and couldn't make rational decisions. Thrall doesn't make bad decisions; he doesn't make ANY. Since the start of WoW up until about halfway through Wrath his !@# was the shape of his chair.

As for Mulgore getting cultivated, I fail to see the difficulty in transporting food to Orgrimmar. It's hardly any different from Ironforge, which has little arable land and appears to rely on game and cattle-equivalent ranches to survive. The Horde controls all the roads inbetween too. TB doesn't need to be a military power either.

The nonsense in Ashenvale was started by the Warsong Orcs acting like spoiled children. They were cutting lumber far in excess of what they were using, and the NElves came down on them for it. If the Orcs could manage to make responsible decisions instead of acting like a mob of escaped convicts at every opportunity I could get behind Garrosh's stance in Wrath and Cata, but he just comes off as a power-hungry killing machine with daddy issues.
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10 Worgen Druid
7360
Okay I can understand if you were rping a character why he would hate Garrosh because of this that and the other thing but why all the ooc hate? Really guys I mean think about it where would the Horde be without Garrosh now? Probably picking daisy or trying to make peace with the Alliance even though Varian obviously would rather just exterminate us all.

You are aware of course that a vast majority of the confrontations between the Alliance and Horde have been started by the Horde? For the most part the Alliance doesn't give a damn about the Horde, until they attack us.

Its the Horde people you know what the Horde does? We raid, pillage, conquer, and hunger for battle. That is what the Horde was originally and I personally like it that way.

Before partaking in demon blood the Orcs weren't much different than the Tauren, a peaceful (for the most part) nomadic shamanistic society.


Yes but Varian made it quite clear in the wrath gate quest that he has wanted to exterminate the horde all along. He pretty much made it clear all through out Wrath he hates the Horde more than any Alliance leader so if Garrosh didn't hit first Varian surely would. And I'm not talking about what orcs use to be I'm talking about the -Horde- which was originally a ruthless unstoppable orc army with crazed forest trolls and ogres at their back.
Edited by Walegar on 12/4/2012 12:33 PM PST
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10 Worgen Druid
7360
Garrosh is a turd and quite frankly a lore let down considering he's supposed to be WoW's connection to Grom.

Shoulda taken him a different direction.


Well...he is like his father. I mean come on if Grom were our warchief he would go slaughter Alliance too.
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90 Human Warrior
13605
12/04/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Walegar
Yes but Varian made it quite clear in the wrath gate quest that he has wanted to exterminate the horde all along.


He never actually said this. He just said he wanted the Horde disbanded. Varian is the same guy who voted to keep them in internment instead of exterminating them outright at the end of the second war. He was just angry at the loss of Bolvar.

What's more, recent developments in Cata and MOP and portrayed Varian as much more level-headed and controlled. In the Lion's Landing introduction he makes it clear that the Alliance will not fight to destroy the Horde, but to destroy what is evil in it. For the love of what's right, not hatred.
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10 Worgen Druid
7360
12/03/2012 05:41 PMPosted by Snocterris
e raid, pillage, conquer, and hunger for battle
Sounds fun Thats why I joined


^This people this is my point. I'm not talking about Garrosh's moral issues here I am talking about what you want your horde to be. Do you want misunderstood barbarians trying to be pacifists or would you rather have some fun looting and pillaging? come on guys you know option B is more fun. Snoc you are more horde than anybody on this forum tyvm lol
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90 Human Warrior
13525
12/04/2012 12:42 PMPosted by Walegar
Sounds fun Thats why I joined


^This people this is my point. I'm not talking about Garrosh's moral issues here I am talking about what you want your horde to be. Do you want misunderstood barbarians trying to be pacifists or would you rather have some fun looting and pillaging? come on guys you know option B is more fun. Snoc you are more horde than anybody on this forum tyvm lol


They're looking at it from a gameplay POV and not a lore POV. There's always going to be action going on in Azeroth.
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10 Worgen Druid
7360
12/04/2012 12:38 PMPosted by Mordstreich
Yes but Varian made it quite clear in the wrath gate quest that he has wanted to exterminate the horde all along.


He never actually said this. He just said he wanted the Horde disbanded. Varian is the same guy who voted to keep them in internment instead of exterminating them outright at the end of the second war. He was just angry at the loss of Bolvar.

What's more, recent developments in Cata and MOP and portrayed Varian as much more level-headed and controlled. In the Lion's Landing introduction he makes it clear that the Alliance will not fight to destroy the Horde, but to destroy what is evil in it. For the love of what's right, not hatred.


"I was away for too long. My absence cost us the lives of some of our greatest heroes. Trash like you and that evil witch were allowed to roam free, unchecked. The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come." Yes he is more level headed now but at the time he wasn't. By mentioning Putress he makes it clear when he says he means disband we will do it by the sword. Either way Varian presented himself as a threat. By the way I am not trolling I swear...
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
6185
Pulling the troll card on anyone with differing views seems like its own special, useless breed of trolling.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
11125
The Alliance doesn't care about the Horde until the Horde attacks them because, I don't know, the Alliance HAS EVERYTHING WORTH HAVING? I mean seriously. Look at what the Horde have. They have their most important city stranded in a desert, the leftover of a completely destroyed city (Lordaeron), another completely destroyed city (Silvermoon), and Thunder Bluff, which while nice, is hardly strategically positioned in any way.


The Horde has come to conquer Pandaria. They are trying to conquer a land of peaceful people. They have already begun to destroy the coast of Krasarang Wilds with oil pipelines.

Look, I love the Horde. I have been a loyal member of the Horde since Wrath of the Lich King. But, what Garrosh and his war are doing to Pandaria is unacceptable. He's starting to admire the Mogu, of all people. At least the Alliance has come to defend it.

^This people this is my point. I'm not talking about Garrosh's moral issues here I am talking about what you want your horde to be. Do you want misunderstood barbarians trying to be pacifists or would you rather have some fun looting and pillaging? come on guys you know option B is more fun. Snoc you are more horde than anybody on this forum tyvm lol


I'd rather focus our might on the true threats: the Burning Legion and the Old Gods.
Edited by Abal on 12/4/2012 1:01 PM PST
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
12/04/2012 09:33 AMPosted by Saitharis
Thrall doesn't make bad decisions; he doesn't make ANY. Since the start of WoW up until about halfway through Wrath his !@# was the shape of his chair.


This isn't entirely true, Thrall actually made a lot of decisions in Vanilla quests trying to make nice with the Alliance by getting involved in the Moira and Onyxia stuff, and killing Rend and such.

The problem is that they all ended up either noncanon or failed miserably. Or he didn't followup.

*Glares at Neeru Fireblade*
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90 Human Warrior
13525
12/04/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Antonchigurh
Pulling the troll card on anyone with differing views seems like its own special, useless breed of trolling.


Way to miss the point.
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90 Human Warrior
13605
To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves.


He said disband, but that could be many things. You can assume he means by the sword, and sure, he wanted to go to war with the Horde. But in that very same expac he shows respect for Varok and his son because they were honorable Orcs. He wouldn't exterminate them all.

12/04/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Antonchigurh
Pulling the troll card on anyone with differing views seems like its own special, useless breed of trolling.


I realize now the OP wasn't trolling, merely confused on the lore points because he was making a decision based on outdated/limited information. However, at the time it seemed like he was posting blatantly wrong things to stir trouble.
Edited by Mordstreich on 12/4/2012 1:15 PM PST
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When doing the quest as Alliance to open the gates to the Vale, Xuen has the player character fight there own inner anger, violence and hatred. As Alliance, the manifestation of your characters hatred takes the form of Garrosh, so they apparently hate him.

On a serious note, I hate Garrosh because of what he did to Theramore, especially Garrosh's hypocrisy concerning the events when Krom'gar blew up that Druid school. You can blaim Blizzard for this one if you want, they really don't provide pro-Alliance players with a reason to ever not hate Garrosh.
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1 Tauren Warrior
0
12/04/2012 01:15 PMPosted by Arbiter
I hate Garrosh because of what he did to Theramore, especially Garrosh's hypocrisy concerning the events when Krom'gar blew up that Druid school.


It's not really hypocrisy. The school wasn't a threat and consisted of mostly students. Theramore was a vital military base for the Alliance and was chock full of elite soldiers and officers.
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10 Worgen Druid
7360
When doing the quest as Alliance to open the gates to the Vale, Xuen has the player character fight there own inner anger, violence and hatred. As Alliance, the manifestation of your characters hatred takes the form of Garrosh, so they apparently hate him.

On a serious note, I hate Garrosh because of what he did to Theramore, especially Garrosh's hypocrisy concerning the events when Krom'gar blew up that Druid school. You can blaim Blizzard for this one if you want, they really don't provide pro-Alliance players with a reason to ever not hate Garrosh.


I love Garrosh for blowing up Theramore! Do you have any idea how long I wanted that to happen?! ever sense I laid eyes on it in vanilla I was like you know I wanna see this place blown to smithereens! Happy frieken birthday to me yes! As for the Druid school that really had no military at all and some of the people training at the school were actually Tuaren. Theramore was clear cut major navel base of the Alliance and it was spear heading the invasion on the Barrens. Yes there were civilians but that is just war people Jaina can just deal with it because her support was obviously more Alliance biased sense she let the Theramore navy invade southern Barrens and Duratar.
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42 Draenei Mage
550
12/04/2012 12:59 PMPosted by Abal
At least the Alliance has come to defend it.

Only because the Horde wants to claim it and the Alliance would rather have it for themselves. It's not really any sort of altruism here.
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12/04/2012 07:34 PMPosted by Mirari
At least the Alliance has come to defend it.

Only because the Horde wants to claim it and the Alliance would rather have it for themselves. It's not really any sort of altruism here.


Honestly, if Domination Point were to be blown off the map, and the Horde's influence and propaganda removed from Pandaria, would Varian call it "Job well done! Lets pack up, and make for Kalimdor!"

No, because... "We need to remain here to ensure that the Horde do not regain a foothold."

And then, "The natives here have so much to learn from us, and we from them, we should open trade, for the prosperity of both!"

Followed by, "The toll of this war weighs heavily upon the Alliance, surely Pandaria, and all the world would benefit by pouring its riches and vast resources into our fight for JUSTICE!"

Soon, "To pay for the irreparable damages Garrosh's Horde has committed on Alliance territories, I am instituting a new tax on the former Horde--now vassal states, and decree that Pandaria will now become a member, of the NEW ALLIANCE OF AZEROTH! For a safe and secure, society!"
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