Combat Rogue Bug?

90 Undead Mage
2570
This is not a QQ thread, nor am I complaining in any way. If they are working as intended, then fine by me. However, in an arena today, I (58% resil) was opened on by a combat rogue and died within a matter of seconds. The thing that made it feel like a bug was that there were so many numbers on my screen that it looked like a block of solid purple since they were overlapping. They were pretty small hits from what I could tell, but there were so many hits I couldn't believe it. I died within ~4 seconds.

Now don't say "blah blah mages OP L2P". Because I don't care that much about it, I just wanted to know if this is a bug or intended.

Anyone else go through a similar situation? It reminds me of the vids of the bugged daggers on beta btw.
Edited by Mystora on 11/29/2012 10:41 PM PST
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90 Human Rogue
5770
He opened and immediately poped killing spree(combat main CD). Its working as intended as killing spree randomly targets (aka if you're next to someone it will distribute overall damage between you two). Also its on a 2m CD if i am not mistaken. Most likely also used shadow blades+trinket (shadow blades gives extra auto attacks in the form of shadow damage, while not hard hitting will stack with killing spree's insane attack speed increase (think it's 2 attacks every 0.5s at 150% damage) and it adds up).

It's basically a 1 trick pony though, If you do manage to survive it they are as good as dead as they just used everything bar Adrenaline rush in an attempt to kill you.

Hope this helped explain it.

Edit: ideas to survive it, If you know you're up against a combat rogue stack on your partner, That way you don't take 100% of the damage.
Edited by Sariel on 11/29/2012 11:03 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12830
We're you able to get a combat log saved? Screenshot perhaps?
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100 Undead Rogue
6600
He opened and immediately poped killing spree(combat main CD). Its working as intended as killing spree randomly targets (aka if you're next to someone it will distribute overall damage between you two). Also its on a 2m CD if i am not mistaken. Most likely also used shadow blades+trinket (shadow blades gives extra auto attacks in the form of shadow damage, while not hard hitting will stack with killing spree's insane attack speed increase (think it's 2 attacks every 0.5s at 150% damage) and it adds up).

It's basically a 1 trick pony though, If you do manage to survive it they are as good as dead as they just used everything bar Adrenaline rush in an attempt to kill you.

Hope this helped explain it.

Edit: ideas to survive it, If you know you're up against a combat rogue stack on your partner, That way you don't take 100% of the damage.


IIRC, Shadow Blades turns all white hits during its duration into pure shadow damage. This does two things:

1) None of the dmg is mitigated by armor
2) Since the white hits essentially become yellow hits during SB, they are subject to the yellow hit cap as opposed to the white cap. Since most Rogues will get to yellow hit cap, all hits during SB will connect as long as they aren't dodged/parried.

Killing Spree is 5 (?) white hits in quick succession that will target people within an 8yard radius of the Rogue. If you are the only non-CCed target in range, all hits will land on you. Couple that with SB and you were in for a world of hurt.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
ONE
12595
11/29/2012 11:14 PMPosted by Clinch
Killing Spree is 5 (?) white hits in quick succession that will target people within an 8yard radius of the Rogue.
think it's seven hits with each weapon
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
That rogue just got super lucky because a lot of people still don't know what combats moves are, possibly due to sub rogues dominating pvp. He pretty much swiftied you. You didn't know what he was doing and he caught you with your pants down. Honestly, that was a super dumb what he did cuz as Sariel pointed out you just got one trick ponied. If a combat rogue ever opens on you again like that make sure to stay close to your partner because if he used kill spree, on use trinket and shadow blades as an opener, I can assure you that for the next 2 minutes he is just going to be a cc bot.

What he did was run in blow everything and pray the RNG gods were in his favor and got lucky that's all.
Edited by Failrogue on 11/30/2012 5:04 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Rogue
17590
He probbably also had you stunned via cheap shot or kindey shot during the killing spree, which would have further increased the damage you took due to Prey on the weak.
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Killing Spree is 5 (?) white hits in quick succession that will target people within an 8yard radius of the Rogue.
think it's seven hits with each weapon


Killing spree is 7 yellow hits with each weapon, with auto attacks still occuring, poisons still proc'ing and mastery procs still happening. For that duration, you're dealing 50% more dmg. On a single target, it'll do a nice bit of damage. But pets are like a hard counter to it :P
Edited by Therogué on 11/30/2012 6:06 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Rogue
6910
As said, it was likely a Killing Spree with a trinket.

Shadow Blades does not stack with Killing Spree, since they are not considered regular auto attacks. So, using Shadow Blades during Killing Spree would be a waste of several seconds of the Shadow Blades duration. This opener is no different really than a sub rogue who would open on you and dance right away. You react the same way, trinket, blink, get out of there.

If your partner is sapped, then the Killing Spree will not hit them. If they CC your pet, say they open on you, then gouge the pet, then hit Killing Spree, it will not hit the pet as Killing Spree ignores CC'd targets. If they are a good judge at range, they can move to where only you are in their 10yd radius when they use Killing Spree, thus your partner is ignored, even if he is close to you. This is what I will often do, sprint, sap the partner, open on you, then run on the opposite direction of the pet until I am further than 10yds from the pet, but within 10 yards of you and use Killing Spree.

After the Killing Spree, which is as stated, is a MH and OH attack every 0.5 seconds for 7 attacks at 150% damage, the combat rogue would still have Adrenaline Rush and Shadow Blades. The Killing Spree will often cause several cooldowns to be used(trinket, iceblock, etc), allowing for setting up of the AR/SB combo with a possible 8s Kidney Shot(depends on DR) that is pretty insane damage. AR and SB have perfect synergy with 0.8s GCD, increased haste from AR to get more autoattacks in as shadow damage, etc. Furthermore, if he gets an AR/SB combo that is somewhat successful, he just likely trimmed off 30 or more seconds of the KS, AR, SB cooldowns.

Also, after that opener, and if the rogue can stay on you, Bandit's Guile will ramp up, giving pretty decent damage outside of a CD ability.

Combat rogues are not too popular, but can be effective. It is the spec that everyone likes to rip on for PvP. Setting up a successful KS or AR/SB requires the same type of setup as getting off a good Shadowdance, or making sure you can make good use of Vendetta as assassination.
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31 Undead Priest
280
^ Thanks for the tips!
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As said, it was likely a Killing Spree with a trinket.

Shadow Blades does not stack with Killing Spree, since they are not considered regular auto attacks. So, using Shadow Blades during Killing Spree would be a waste of several seconds of the Shadow Blades duration. This opener is no different really than a sub rogue who would open on you and dance right away. You react the same way, trinket, blink, get out of there.

If your partner is sapped, then the Killing Spree will not hit them. If they CC your pet, say they open on you, then gouge the pet, then hit Killing Spree, it will not hit the pet as Killing Spree ignores CC'd targets. If they are a good judge at range, they can move to where only you are in their 10yd radius when they use Killing Spree, thus your partner is ignored, even if he is close to you. This is what I will often do, sprint, sap the partner, open on you, then run on the opposite direction of the pet until I am further than 10yds from the pet, but within 10 yards of you and use Killing Spree.

After the Killing Spree, which is as stated, is a MH and OH attack every 0.5 seconds for 7 attacks at 150% damage, the combat rogue would still have Adrenaline Rush and Shadow Blades. The Killing Spree will often cause several cooldowns to be used(trinket, iceblock, etc), allowing for setting up of the AR/SB combo with a possible 8s Kidney Shot(depends on DR) that is pretty insane damage. AR and SB have perfect synergy with 0.8s GCD, increased haste from AR to get more autoattacks in as shadow damage, etc. Furthermore, if he gets an AR/SB combo that is somewhat successful, he just likely trimmed off 30 or more seconds of the KS, AR, SB cooldowns.

Also, after that opener, and if the rogue can stay on you, Bandit's Guile will ramp up, giving pretty decent damage outside of a CD ability.

Combat rogues are not too popular, but can be effective. It is the spec that everyone likes to rip on for PvP. Setting up a successful KS or AR/SB requires the same type of setup as getting off a good Shadowdance, or making sure you can make good use of Vendetta as assassination.


Thank you for being a competant voice of reason sir.

This is a GREAT overview of combat. But lets not forget, if the rogue sets it up during the 2nd-3rd rank of Bandit's Guile, then your @#$%ed cause thats an extra 20-30% dmg on top of all that. Personally Im having lots of fun as combat. And its not a 1 trick pony. If anything Sub is cause its so reliant on Shadowdance. At least combat has 2 insane DPS combos.
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90 Human Rogue
4675
It's called you got bursted by A Rogue that knows his class. Not a bug..

Nothing to see here
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
11/30/2012 10:04 AMPosted by Vhiessu
But lets not forget, if the rogue sets it up during the 2nd-3rd rank of Bandit's Guile, then your @#$%ed cause thats an extra 20-30% dmg on top of all that. Personally Im having lots of fun as combat. And its not a 1 trick pony. If anything Sub is cause its so reliant on Shadowdance. At least combat has 2 insane DPS combos.


This is what most ppl miss. Unless you are confident that as an opener kill spree will force CDs, opening with that and trink is just not the smartest move. Combats advantage is that unlike the other 2 specs its damage CDs can be spread out and I see few rogues taking advantage of this.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
6910
11/30/2012 10:13 AMPosted by Failrogue
But lets not forget, if the rogue sets it up during the 2nd-3rd rank of Bandit's Guile, then your @#$%ed cause thats an extra 20-30% dmg on top of all that. Personally Im having lots of fun as combat. And its not a 1 trick pony. If anything Sub is cause its so reliant on Shadowdance. At least combat has 2 insane DPS combos.


This is what most ppl miss. Unless you are confident that as an opener kill spree will force CDs, opening with that and trink is just not the smartest move. Combats advantage is that unlike the other 2 specs its damage CDs can be spread out and I see few rogues taking advantage of this.


You are correct in this and make a good point. Personally, I will use KS on the opener only if I can guarantee that it will go off cleanly. My combat rogue is a human, and I use the agi proc trinket, and the on use. In most cases, the agi proc trinket will go off almost immediately, and I can use the on use on top of that. That's +7500 or so agility on the Killing Spree(and if Dancing Steel procs, over 9k Agi), and it nearly almost always forces cooldowns and/or trinkets to be used. It also swings the momentum in our favor.

The thought is that by forcing these cooldowns with Killing Spree, that I can then work to line up the kill with a combination of Adrenaline Rush and Shadow Blades, with a good Kidney and maximizing as much of Bandit's Guile as possible.

Also, I speak mostly from a 2's arena perspective. Often, with a lot of double DPS, the matches just don't last long enough to be able to set more up. I've wanted to work on perhaps splitting up SB and AR to have them as two separate burst opportunities, but matches just don't last long enough to do that. They work so well together with the same CD that I've found it best to pair them up.

My partner has just started playing feral, so still a lot of tough matches as he tries to learn the class. He's having some difficulty and may go back to resto, which in that case, would provide for a different playstyle and matches that could involve more strategy.
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90 Undead Rogue
2195
This is great info for combat rogues, therefore I'm not ashamed bump this.
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