Why Thrall should die.

100 Night Elf Rogue
15525
Or at least go away forever.

Presented in five easy reasons.

1. The Orcs don't like him.

True, Thrall was a visionary. True, Thrall freed his people from their bloodlust. True, Thrall led his people to safety.

But at the same time, Thrall led them to a desert and left them to starve while he went off to play hero. He routinely turned his back on the Horde to increase his own glory and rarely seemed to care about them beyond the ideals he hoped they would portray one day.

Garrosh is portrayed as being adored by nearly the entirety of the Orcish population because, unlike Thrall, he actually gave a damn about what happened to his people. He's a supremacist, sure, but he's not a glory-seeking traitor like Thrall.

2. The Alliance doesn't like him.

Thrall is basically responsible for every murder Garrosh has ever committed. He saw the kind of monster Garrosh would become in Northrend and decided to turn over to him the whole strength of the Horde's military might while he went off to go play in the Maelstrom for awhile.

When Garrosh murdered the elves, Thrall did nothing. When Garrosh murdered Cairne, Thrall did nothing. When Garrosh murdered every man, woman and child in Theramore, Thrall did nothing. And Thrall was the only one who could do something.

Thrall is the number one enemy of the Alliance.

3. He doesn't make sense.

Here's where the big story problems with Thrall emerge.

So, at the end of 5.1, Thrall is given news of the assassination attempt on Vol'jin. This, it seems, is enough to stir him to finally stand up to Garrosh.

...why?

What makes that the straw that broke the camel's back? Thrall clearly doesn't take Vol'jin all that seriously, since he ignored Vol'jin's warnings about Garrosh in the first place. So why does he care about Vol'jin now?

Some people say that he couldn't respond to Theramore because he was off being the World-Shaman. In the books, it's said that Garrosh was summoning Molten Giants from the Firelands and Krakens from Vash'jir...you know, the kind of elementals we fought against in Cataclysm. This seems like the problem of the World-Shaman.

Apparently, he's living in the Valley of Trials this whole time. Well, in that case, why isn't he off at the Maelstrom like he's supposed to be? Are his World-Shaman duties over? In that case, why isn't he off responding to Garrosh now? Some say it's because he wants to defend his family first, but that goes against everything we know about him as a selfless, charismatic leader.

Thrall's character is full of plot holes. And the only way to close those plot holes is by opening new ones.

4. The story can't progress with Thrall still around.

There's a reason he's called "Green Jesus." He's a messiah figure. He's always portrayed as selfless and being ultimately in the ethical right. Everything Thrall does is just and he's rarely ever called to question himself (as we saw in Elemental Bonds, which ultimately had no effect on his character).

WoW is supposed to be the story of us. That's why we're called heroes. We get vehicles like Tirion, Nazgrim and Taylor to be our voices, but ultimately, they are there to witness our deeds. They need us.

Thrall, however, doesn't need us. We are there to witness HIS deeds. We are there to be HIS henchmen. We are not allowed to steal HIS spotlight. It's always made clear that we need him to save us from our own stupidity.

And save us, Thrall shall. It's his role as a messiah to save us, as he saved the orcs. He is portrayed as redeeming us, as fixing the broken world, as being the unifying influence in the world. So long as he's around, he will forever rob us of agency as characters. Nothing we ever do will matter, none of the lives lost or the blood spilled will ever mean anything, because Thrall will always show up to save us at the end.

5. The story becomes stronger with Thrall dead.

Remove the messiah figure and you remove the certainty from the conflict and thus, make it more intense.

Think what happens if, say, Thrall is executed by Garrosh.

The Horde realizes that they have just killed the guy who always swore they weren't murderous monsters. Everything the Alliance and Cenarius has ever said about the Horde is suddenly proved true and Thrall isn't around anymore to save them. Suddenly, the Horde is left in a deep hole and the only way to get out is through their own will, their own deeds, their own grit. The story is theirs again. Not Thrall's.

And the Alliance realizes the last possibility of this ending at all peacefully has now been killed. The dream of living in peace with the Horde is over. From now on, it's kill or be killed. There is no easy way out anymore and there is no way they can sit back idly and wait for Thrall to fix it. Now, the Alliance must make its own peace.

Now see where we're at? No longer is it about bad versus good. We're now a real, authentic conflict. Two sides, both convinced they are in the right, hurtling toward each other at breakneck speeds. The Horde can't let themselves be ruled by this maniac, but they can't rely on the figures of the past to save them. The Alliance can't live with eternal war, but peace with the Horde is out of the question.

There's no more easy answers. Thus, we're invested to see what happens next.

Think it over.
90 Night Elf Druid
8235
Thrall is the greatest WoW character and leader ever. Didn't even have to read your post besides title.
90 Blood Elf Warlock
11400
People keep guessing someones going to have to die to bring Anduin back. No one really knows whats going on for that.

Now part of me is just wishing Thrall would die. Just on a story standpoint. I have no qualms really with Metzen I'm just sick of Thrall.

11/30/2012 04:00 AMPosted by Lawlpotatoes
Thrall is the greatest WoW character and leader ever. Didn't even have to read your post besides title.


.........................................................................
Edited by Rosenivy on 11/30/2012 4:01 AM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
10495
Thrall is fine.

Kill Go'el.
100 Human Paladin
13510
Thrall cant die. Thrall is metzen. So we're doomed.
90 Blood Elf Priest
5990
If Thrall died we all know he'd come back better than ever!
90 Pandaren Monk
10495
If you strike Metzen down, he will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Edited by Musubi on 11/30/2012 4:07 AM PST
100 Night Elf Rogue
15525
Eh. I don't think Metzen is as obsessed with Thrall as people say. I think Cataclysm showed him that his vision of the story wasn't working out for a lot of people and MoP has shown him that a new vision is working out a lot better.

I think the removal of Thrall would cement that vision quite nicely.

He doesn't necessarily have to die. Heck, it might even be better if he were chased out of Orgrimmar, spurned by the Alliance and had to walk into the sunset, realizing that he chose to separate himself from this world and now was no longer a part of it.

He could come back later. But I think all the story of MoP would be ruined if Thrall came back and fixed everything. And because it's Thrall, he can't not fix everything. That's the problem with messiah characters.
90 Night Elf Druid
8235
People keep guessing someones going to have to die to bring Anduin back. No one really knows whats going on for that.

Now part of me is just wishing Thrall would die. Just on a story standpoint. I have no qualms really with Metzen I'm just sick of Thrall.

Thrall is the greatest WoW character and leader ever. Didn't even have to read your post besides title.


.........................................................................


Typical Blood Elf response and backs up the whole "Blood Elves brought about the downfall of the horde"
90 Blood Elf Warlock
11400
11/30/2012 04:07 AMPosted by Musubi
If you strike Metzen down, he will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.


/shrug

Metzen doesn't seem that much of a boogeyman. Just too much stuff with Thrall. The other stuff I can tolerate just no more Thrall. For the love of the space butterfly
90 Blood Elf Warlock
11400
11/30/2012 04:08 AMPosted by Lawlpotatoes
Typical Blood Elf response and backs up the whole "Blood Elves brought about the downfall of the horde"


Says a person who is going to blindly try to argue without any form of effort whatsoever.

Oooooo a racial threat over a fictional race by the way. Because clearly I am a Blood Elf in real life.
90 Night Elf Druid
8235
11/30/2012 04:10 AMPosted by Rosenivy
Typical Blood Elf response and backs up the whole "Blood Elves brought about the downfall of the horde"


Says a person who is going to blindly try to argue without any form of effort whatsoever.

Oooooo a racial threat over a fictional race by the way. Because clearly I am a Blood Elf in real life.


It's the type of personality you bring to the horde. Players that are horde at heart will always follow Thrall and show him great respect. You obviously aren't one of them and that's why my argument stands.
100 Orc Shaman
8135
OP, you are wrong in so many levels.

I'm an Orc and i love Thrall. Orcs love Thrall, Thrall took use from slavery and turned us into one of the two dominating factions in Azeroth.

Garrosh is loved, yes, but less than Thrall.

The alliance doesnt need to love the Horde leader....

Thrall didnt ignore Vol'jin warnings, neither he ignored Cairne's. he though that Cairne's and Vol'jin advice would be enough to offset Garrosh's idiotic behaviour. It wasnt, it was a mistake from Thrall, but Vol'jin (as well as Cairne) is one of Thralls bes friends and most trustfull advisors.
So after Garrosh kills one of his friends and now threatens another one, is makes an absolute sense that Thrall decides to oppose Garrosh.

The story can progress fine with Thrall, and no you get it wrong. The story is not about us, Tirion and such are not there to witness us.
The story is about them, we are just nameless adventurers that help THEM, not the other way around.

The story doesnt make sense with Thrall dead. WoW story needs Thrall, it wont actualyl make sense without him.

The horde is getting our from a tiranny, the horde society need to make sure the next Warchief is a good one, we cant withstand another tyrant. So the next Warchief need to be one that without any doubt will not be a tyrant. The ONLY one that fills that spot is Thrall.

We cant know how Saurfang or any other candidate will act given enough power, but we know how Thrall will.

I understand that you as an alliance dont want us to have a good leader, but we deserve one, especially after this two expansion of having this idiot in charge.

We need Thrall back.

We need our Warchief back.

Chris promised we would get it, and we trust Chris.

Thunder is coming....
Edited by Gromahk on 11/30/2012 4:15 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Warlock
11400
11/30/2012 04:12 AMPosted by Lawlpotatoes
It's the type of personality you bring to the horde. Players that are horde at heart will always follow Thrall and show him great respect. You obviously aren't one of them and that's why my argument stands.


The Horde isn't real. You know this I hope. Could care less if it was Thrall or Garrosh. Bad writing is bad writing. You go on trying to argue with yourself. For some reason you think I wish to argue.
Edited by Rosenivy on 11/30/2012 4:14 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
11/30/2012 04:13 AMPosted by Gromahk
The horde is getting our from a tiranny, the horde society need to make sure the next Warchief is a good one, we cant withstand another tyrant. So the next Warchief need to be one that without any doubt will not be a tyrant. The ONLY one that fills that spot is Thrall.


While I agree with this Blizz has already said the next warchief will be a surprise and it will not be someone we expect.

So that excludes Thrall, Voljin, Bane and Sylvannas and of course Theron from being the next Warchief
Edited by Ssinfull on 11/30/2012 4:20 AM PST
90 Tauren Druid
7020
We want Thrall back as Warchief. We deserve him.
100 Night Elf Rogue
15525
11/30/2012 04:19 AMPosted by Roastbeef
We want Thrall back as Warchief. We deserve him.


See, my whole argument is that the Horde doesn't deserve him. The Horde needs to have their story be their own again, instead of having it be a vehicle for Thrall to look awesome.
71 Pandaren Monk
6265
Thrall is fine.

Kill Go'el.
100 Orc Shaman
8135
11/30/2012 04:19 AMPosted by Ssinfull
The horde is getting our from a tiranny, the horde society need to make sure the next Warchief is a good one, we cant withstand another tyrant. So the next Warchief need to be one that without any doubt will not be a tyrant. The ONLY one that fills that spot is Thrall.


While I agree with this Blizz has already said the next warchief will be a surprise and it will not be someone we expect.

So that excludes Thrall, Voljin, Bane and Sylvannas and of course Theron.
ç

Blizz hasnt said that.

One blue poster (not a dev) said "Dont be so sure to know who will wear the warchief mantle next", and that's it.

Meanwhile, Chris Metzen, VP of Creative Development promised we would get our Warchief back.

Another developer said in an interview we would help Thrall to be Warchief again.

The blue poster might have tried to get some suspense around again.

The only one that makes sense is Thrall.
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