Why Thrall should die.

100 Blood Elf Death Knight
14210
OP, you are wrong in so many levels.

I'm an Orc and i love Thrall. Orcs love Thrall, Thrall took use from slavery and turned us into one of the two dominating factions in Azeroth.

Garrosh is loved, yes, but less than Thrall.

The alliance doesnt need to love the Horde leader....

Thrall didnt ignore Vol'jin warnings, neither he ignored Cairne's. he though that Cairne's and Vol'jin advice would be enough to offset Garrosh's idiotic behaviour. It wasnt, it was a mistake from Thrall, but Vol'jin (as well as Cairne) is one of Thralls bes friends and most trustfull advisors.
So after Garrosh kills one of his friends and now threatens another one, is makes an absolute sense that Thrall decides to oppose Garrosh.

The story can progress fine with Thrall, and no you get it wrong. The story is not about us, Tirion and such are not there to witness us.
The story is about them, we are just nameless adventurers that help THEM, not the other way around.

The story doesnt make sense with Thrall dead. WoW story needs Thrall, it wont actualyl make sense without him.

The horde is getting our from a tiranny, the horde society need to make sure the next Warchief is a good one, we cant withstand another tyrant. So the next Warchief need to be one that without any doubt will not be a tyrant. The ONLY one that fills that spot is Thrall.

We cant know how Saurfang or any other candidate will act given enough power, but we know how Thrall will.

I understand that you as an alliance dont want us to have a good leader, but we deserve one, especially after this two expansion of having this idiot in charge.

We need Thrall back.

We need our Warchief back.

Chris promised we would get it, and we trust Chris.

Thunder is coming....


This x100

Thrall is the modern Horde and atm the horde under Garrosh is just a reversion to the Horde of the 1st and 2nd wars.

Garrosh's horde doesn't allow for for meaningful allies, while Thralls Horde thrives on outcast races banding together.

People claim that Thrall doesnt care or understand his people and that he should of stood up for them more, however Thrall's actions were about peace. With peace you don't see the waste of lives and resources or the straining of alliances among your faction that you do in war.

Besides if any leader should be killed of it is Malfurion for turning down the gift of the return of the Night elves immortality without the concent or knowledge of his people and the disregard and disrespect for his wife who is true leader of the Night elves
100 Night Elf Rogue
15635
I would love for Malfurion to be killed, too. He's just as much of an "easy out."

Also, you don't get to claim to be all about peace when you sat back and watched an entire city get nuked and said nothing.
90 Night Elf Hunter
11250
Enekie:
I'd hope that the new Warchief would be someone we actually heard of. A daughter out of nowhere would make absolutely no sense.


And yet, we have all embraced Blood Elf Paladins who get their power from mysterious Origami monsters from space. Anything and everything is possible where Metzen is concerned.

I think the Horde will get an Interim Warchief who will be ineffectual and lacklustre to the point where we as characters will somehow have to assist Thrall's offspring to assume the Horde throne.

Thrall himself does have to go.. for the reasons you mentioned. But metzen did actually promise that players would have their Warchief back. I just dont think the Metz would ever let the opportunity for a really decent story twist to slip through his fingers like that... and this is the kind of sneaky, metzy kind of thing he loves to do...:)
100 Night Elf Rogue
15635
Yeah, we're kind of at odds with the information here.

Metzen "promised" that they would have their Warchief back.

But then, a blue came back and said they misspoke once people raged about having to deal with Thrall again. It's entirely possible that it was intended for Thrall to return, but Metzen changed his mind.

Cataclysm was, by far, their worst story to date. It was pitiful, juvenile, boring and far below their standards and Thrall was at the center of it all. I don't think that went unnoticed. I think the plan had to be changed to create a stronger story.

But by killing Thrall, the story could be stronger still.
90 Orc Warrior
2145
Yes, it does.

He put a murderer in charge and then sat back and let him kill thousands while abandoning you to become Garrosh's slaves.


Sat back? How do you know what Thrall is doing or where he is? If you know Thralls personality you know he wouldn't not be okay with it.
100 Night Elf Rogue
15635
Yes, it does.

He put a murderer in charge and then sat back and let him kill thousands while abandoning you to become Garrosh's slaves.


Sat back? How do you know what Thrall is doing or where he is? If you know Thralls personality you know he wouldn't not be okay with it.


He's in the Valley of Trials, where he's been for awhile, sitting back and letting Garrosh kill everyone.
90 Orc Warrior
2145


Sat back? How do you know what Thrall is doing or where he is? If you know Thralls personality you know he wouldn't not be okay with it.


He's in the Valley of Trials, where he's been for awhile, sitting back and letting Garrosh kill everyone.


/facedesk

Arthas is still in ICC does that mean he's still alive?
100 Night Elf Rogue
15635


He's in the Valley of Trials, where he's been for awhile, sitting back and letting Garrosh kill everyone.


/facedesk

Arthas is still in ICC does that mean he's still alive?


Finish the rep grind for Dominance Offensive. You'll see what I'm talking about.
90 Night Elf Hunter
11250
If I was Metzen (and no I'm not hahaha)... I would want to spring a surprise that not only twists and surprises, but also fulfills the promises made to players.

Not saying he will do it exactly the way I would, but we have seen enough twists and surprises to know his diabolical leanings...:)

All I am saying is... we are in a position where all the lore thats happening now is all new. We arent playing through the old RTS campaign lore anymore, we have progressed beyond that.

The best way for Metz to add new lore and history to the Horde story is to tie it in to events that have already happened on Azeroth, that gives it a legitimacy he could never create by just dumping in a new story arc.

Now, given that, think back to the one yearly event we do year after year after year, and the one event that happens that has never, ever been explained or even alluded to since it was first introduced.

Think back on the Childrens week trip into the Caverns of Time and you will see where I am going...:)
90 Draenei Shaman
13545
I would love for Malfurion to be killed, too. He's just as much of an "easy out."

Also, you don't get to claim to be all about peace when you sat back and watched an entire city get nuked and said nothing.


Thrall hasn't ever really been portrayed as doing much more than talking about peace, at least in game. Yeah theramore was Garrosh, but wrathgate, icecrown and a *lot* of little things was Thrall's horde. Did he personally do any of that? No, but he hasn't had much of a problem with some very nasty stuff on his watch.
90 Night Elf Hunter
11250
Well, you know, me and Thrall are pretty tight. I mean, I did break him out of prison and help him get back to his... human girlfriend..er.. companion.... er... very close friend.. in Tarren Mill.... you know, after the whole Durnholde prison debacle...:)

You don't suppose she could have had a little hordie bun in the oven do you?

Naaaah..... Metz would never do that to us... or would he...bwahahahahaah
Edited by Grayarrow on 11/30/2012 5:48 AM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
12245
11/30/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Enekie
1. The Orcs don't like him.

Veterans love him, new recruits who only know life in the camps are mixed, and the youngest who only know Durotar don't.

Basically orcs that know the cost of war, and wise elders have nothing but respect for the guy. Thrall only really left Orgrimmar to visit his grandma, and to train in traditional orcish shamanism. Garrosh is loved by everyone because everyone who shows any dislike of him (or just don't cheer loud enough) are beaten half to death, stabbed in the throat, or are killed in a mysterious grenade accident.

11/30/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Enekie
2. The Alliance doesn't like him.

He doesn't need your love, however he still has it.
He is respected by almost every leader in the Alliance, Jaina has said as much, and Varian himself met with him to try for peace.
As for him not doing anything, he was kinda busy with his shammy friends healing the world, literally.

11/30/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Enekie
3. He doesn't make sense.

The only reason Vol'jin was able to even get Thrall's attention was that he apparently used the emergency hearthstone connected directly to Thrall, and Thrall only recently returned to Durotar during the events of Tides of War. From the looks of things he may be a new daddy, and a swirling vortex of elemental and arcane forces aren't the best place to raise a baby.
Oh and Theramore isn't his problem, what Garrosh did stunk of corruption, why he did it was completely legit. The Horde wasn't the only aggressor in this war, Jaina knows it as much as Thrall does.

11/30/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Enekie
4. The story can't progress with Thrall still around.

This is a real argument and I agree wholeheartedly.
This is also the same reason Jaina, Malfurion, Velen, and Anduin need to get on the bus with Me'dan and never return.

11/30/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Enekie
5. The story becomes stronger with Thrall dead.

No.
Just killing off Thrall won't make the story better in fact it will only complete the messiah image by making him a martyr. Also your framework won't really work out since Baine, Vol'jin, and Saurfang will still be alive. They are capable and respected across faction lines.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16680
I know it's a story and all (and we can see more than he), but Thrall really dropped the ball on Garrosh. I mean seriously, the guy was a nut, his two best friends (and advisers) tell him he's bad news (before that, Saurfang himself has issues with him. Saurfang!) he even kills one of them (on purpose or not, he killed him), is involved in some way in heinous attacks on the Alliance, etc...

I know it's a story, so I let it pass because of it. But wow... Thrall really went from hero to zero in the smarts department.
Edited by Pryde on 11/30/2012 5:53 AM PST
11/30/2012 05:02 AMPosted by Enekie
I'd hope that the new Warchief would be someone we actually heard of. A daughter out of nowhere would make absolutely no sense.


There you just threw away all your points you made earlier. If we're supposed to make our own destiny why would you want a warchief that we know about? Why is doing something new and different so bad? Why is getting Thrall back bad? Thrall had said that Garrosh was the only one with the strength to hold the horde together. Strength he has, yes. But he's just another character we can chalk up as "went crazy after getting power." This was Garrosh's test to prove himself, and he failed.

To me, World of Warcraft is my character living through a story. As a player and as someone who could never think up this amazing world we play in, I don't make assumptions, suggestions, or demands.

This story is going to play out how it's going to play out, and I'll be here every step of the way.
90 Night Elf Hunter
11250
11/30/2012 05:52 AMPosted by Pryde
Thrall really went from hero to zero in the smarts department.


Ah, but you see, Thrall really didn't. He knew what was coming, just as he knew he had to wander off and heal the world.

He knew the Horde would need a leader with great strength and great ambition to get the Horde nations through the events of the Cataclysm and emerge as a strong, confident nation.

I am thinking Thrall probably foresaw, or was informed of, most of the events the Horde are experiencing through his ties to the various Aspects he helped during Cata. (One of whom was the Aspect of Time, lets not forget)

Thrall made the choice he had to make to ensure that the Horde would continue, probably knowing exactly what Garrosh's legacy was going to be.

I think that makes Thrall a much more interesting character...:)
100 Night Elf Rogue
15635
11/30/2012 05:57 AMPosted by Akthos
I'd hope that the new Warchief would be someone we actually heard of. A daughter out of nowhere would make absolutely no sense.


There you just threw away all your points you made earlier. If we're supposed to make our own destiny why would you want a warchief that we know about? Why is doing something new and different so bad? Why is getting Thrall back bad? Thrall had said that Garrosh was the only one with the strength to hold the horde together. Strength he has, yes. But he's just another character we can chalk up as "went crazy after getting power." This was Garrosh's test to prove himself, and he failed.

To me, World of Warcraft is my character living through a story. As a player and as someone who could never think up this amazing world we play in, I don't make assumptions, suggestions, or demands.

This story is going to play out how it's going to play out, and I'll be here every step of the way.


I can see your argument, but I don't think so.

If it's Thrall's daughter, then it's basically still Thrall. If it's someone we know about, then we at least have the chance to get to know them further, which is why I hope it's Lor'themar.
100 Orc Shaman
8135
Can't wait to raid Orgrimmar and overthrow Garrosh. We should all, Alliance and Horde strive to end his miserable life after what he did to Cairne. I will personally give Baine my axe so he can separate head from body.

Vol'jin for Warchief !

Edit: As for Thrall, well he deserves a rest. Let him retire as an aspect and raise his children so that they can enter the story in a future tale.


Rest? He is young, he loves his horde and he will help it because he is seeing the consequences his decision made to it.

Also, HE IS NOT AN ASPECT, he never was, he isnt one, aspects dont even exist anymore. Seruiously, read the books.

And finally, Blizzard said they want WoW to continue to be about Orc vs Humans mainly, you will not see a non Orc as Warchief.

Thrall is the only one that makes sense lorewise.
10 Tauren Warrior
10
+1 Like to the OP.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16680
11/30/2012 05:59 AMPosted by Grayarrow
Thrall really went from hero to zero in the smarts department.


Ah, but you see, Thrall really didn't. He knew what was coming, just as he knew he had to wander off and heal the world.

He knew the Horde would need a leader with great strength and great ambition to get the Horde nations through the events of the Cataclysm and emerge as a strong, confident nation.

I am thinking Thrall probably foresaw, or was informed of, most of the events the Horde are experiencing through his ties to the various Aspects he helped during Cata. (One of whom was the Aspect of Time, lets not forget)

Thrall made the choice he had to make to ensure that the Horde would continue, probably knowing exactly what Garrosh's legacy was going to be.

I think that makes Thrall a much more interesting character...:)


Sorry, you write very nicely but I don't agree.

His decision was a bad one. The Horde would have continued just fine if Eitrigg or Saurfang had just taken over temporarily. Or Cairne, before he died, or Vol'jin.

The only thing Thrall was successful at was making the Horde miss HIM. Now he can come back, a White Knight, take care of Garrosh and be the Hero... AGAIN.
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