Inscription and the New herb spawn rate.

90 Night Elf Druid
7620
Dear Blizzard,
I would like to take this oppurtunity to discuss some obvious issues with the new spawn rate of herbs. First I would like to say that in terms of Alchemy you have greatly balanced the ability to make flasks! Gratz on this. However... I would like to point out that you have almost killed inscription. One of the main benefits to inscription are darkmoon cards. Considering that it takes 10 starlight inks and the drop rate on misty pigment can barely be relied upon lets assume for every 8 stacks of herbs you can get 10 starlight ink(with turning in inks for starlight ink.
Now... after spending an entire hour farming herbs all over dread waste and kunlai summit i have amassed only 10-12 stacks of herbs. Unfortunately I can't play all day. You are asking us inscriptionists in order to make money using darkmoon cards/weapons to spend all day farming herbs. That would be great if I didn't have dailies left to do on this toon. Even after dailies we will have to spend a significant amount of time farming just to make money. I appreciate you trying to balance the prices, but it seems of all the professions inscription has been hurt the most in terms of farming etc. We already have to deal with a daily cd.
I Do agree that dropping the spawn rate from 5.0.5 was a great idea but I think you guys dropped it way too much. You are encouraging botters as it is the only way i can see people like me getting a significant amount of farm in since I only have about 2-4 hours a night and most of that is raiding.
I am sure that many people, not just inscriptionists feel the same way. Feel free to add your insight to this post or make your own :p
Edited by Alkessa on 12/2/2012 6:22 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9570
I feel like the daily CD on scrolls of wisdom should be the prime limiting factor for Darkmoon cards, not our capacity to farm for hours on end to get enough ink to make a single card.

not sure what I'm going to do with all my extra scrolls now, but there's no way in hell I've got the time/patience to farm 10 starlight ink/day. maybe the the Spirit of Harmony -> Ink conversion was higher (say, 5 inks for 1 spirit?) it wouldn't be so bad.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
I had no idea herbs went BoP in patch 5.1; that's horrible.

>_>
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9570
I had no idea herbs went BoP in patch 5.1; that's horrible.

>_>


so instead of farming our own mats in an hour-ish, we're now required to pay +100g/stack from bots for the dozens of stacks required to mill enough ink for a DMF card?
Edited by Bioshocked on 12/2/2012 7:24 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10695
ive made over a million gold with darkmoon decks in MoP and have not farmed a single herb. Even though the rising herb prices certainly means i will make less gold in the future it doesn't change a single thing with what I will do.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
I had no idea herbs went BoP in patch 5.1; that's horrible.

>_>


so instead of farming our own mats in an hour-ish, we're now required to pay +100g/stack from bots for the dozens of stacks required to mill enough ink for a DMF card?

Hyperbole much? ^_^

Green tea leaf is 50g/stack on the OP's server, I checked before posting. And yours is below 70g/stack. Prices will fluctuate until a new equilibrium point is discovered, and as prices rise more players will turn back to gathering and help to meet demands when they're able to make economic profits doing so.

If those prices are notably higher than they were a week ago (which should be expected), then the prices of resulting goods and services will also rise to compensate. Very few people are dumb enough to work without making at least normal profits, so you simply have to watch as the market redistributes itself.

Personally I bought herbs to mill and stockpiled all the starlight ink I'd need for my five scribes through to the end of the fair two weeks ago, since I figured prices would rise during the fair anyway. But even if I hadn't, the situation is far from being untenable. I can't beat Zach's profits, but I do share his confidence.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9570
according to the remote AH, Green Tea is currently 70-80g/stack on my server and DMF cards are selling for 1000-1500g.

assuming 20 stacks of herbs per card, and your profits are practically non-existent right now (it's probably a loss if you take into account Oxen card procs)

maybe prices will rise significantly when the fair is actually here, but my guess is that most players won't be willing to pay twice as much for the cards even though the herbs take twice as long to farm and prices have doubled on the AH.
Edited by Bioshocked on 12/2/2012 7:58 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10695
10 stacks of non fool's cap per card.

you still profit selling cards. if you take the extra step to complete decks they are all over 20k except for the tank deck so you are still looking at roughly tripling your gold.
Edited by Zachfu on 12/2/2012 8:24 AM PST
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90 Gnome Priest
8910
Verelyse:
I had no idea herbs went BoP in patch 5.1; that's horrible.

>_>

God, don't do that; I thought you were serious. :O
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Verelyse:
I had no idea herbs went BoP in patch 5.1; that's horrible.

>_>

God, don't do that; I thought you were serious. :O

Hehehe. ^_^
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90 Troll Druid
6250
why bliz why
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90 Night Elf Druid
7620
I guess I should have titled it herbalism/inscription and herbs.
My point being is that it is no longer viable to farm everything yourself which cuts into profits. The current system encourages botters since the majority of us people can't farm for a whole day. And I'm being liberal at that estimate. I play a lot and spend at least 3-5 hours a day on wow but between raids, and multiple toons, farming should not be an issue. Yet now I find I can't farm ore and herbs, I won't make any money off darkmoon cards anymore, and its impossible for me to supply enough pots for all of my toons without taking a huge dent in my already low coffers.
I know this is an attempt to fix the economy, but perhaps you should of thought it out. The only one controlling the ah now are the people who spend more than 12 hours a day playing, meaning 8/10 times bots. And they will make as much gold as they can off the ah, while the rest of us will go to raids without enough pots, flasks, and trinkets.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
12/03/2012 04:29 AMPosted by Alkessa
My point being is that it is no longer viable to farm everything yourself which cuts into profits.

Incorrect, technically.

Your profits are the same, it's the distribution of your intrinsic and extrinsic costs which have changed. Basically intrinsic costs are what YOU do, and extrinsic costs are what you let your MONEY do for you.

Before this you gathered your own herbs, which was an intrinsic cost (you spend time, rather than gold). Now, due to the 5.1 changes, you have to spend more time than you think the activity is worth to you.

You can easily (in fact, more easily) continue to profit off darkmoon faire cards by turning those intrinsic costs into extrinsic costs, which simply makes your invisible intrinsic costs visible extrinsic costs.

You're basically doing the same thing a lot of small business owners do, which is to not pay themselves a salary, eliminating most of their labor costs, while thinking that it's making them more money.

But really it's just accounting wordplay.

You have a finite amount of time. It's your choice how to invest that time to its fullest potential. If you have more valuable things to do with that time, the intrinsic cost of gathering is too low to be worthwhile.

Um... example. Lets say an hour of gathering was worth... 5K. Just to play around with.

Per Hour:

Intrinsic Costs Extrinsic Costs Total Sale Profit
Gathering Everything Paying for Nothing 5.0K 7.5K 2.5K

That 5K isn't PROFIT, it's LABOR COST you should be paying yourself.

Intrinsic Costs Extrinsic Costs Total Sale Profit
Gathering Nothing Paying for Everything 5.0K 7.5K 2.5K

Whether you pay yourself, or pay someone else, your profits are unchanged.

All that's happened is you've (unconsciously) identified a material value to your labor cost. And with the 5.1 node changes, you have other things that are more valuable to you per hour than gathering can be.

An important note is that you don't LOSE that potential labor income, you've simply chosen to invest it elsewhere where you earn a larger return (doesn't have to be monetary, either; fun is important too).

Now we're getting into the substitution and income effects of the wage and leisure utility, though...

Probably a good time to stop talking. :)
Edited by Verelyse on 12/3/2012 8:53 AM PST
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96 Pandaren Monk
15370
biz donot no what thay are doing thay donot see thay are hurting the game badly wit this ... other 100.000ppl are going to leave the game now form this good job bizz
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
12/03/2012 06:56 AMPosted by Jynnepower
biz donot no what thay are doing thay donot see thay are hurting the game badly wit this ... other 100.000ppl are going to leave the game now form this good job bizz

You desperately need a new keyboard. I hope. I'm going with that. Get a new keyboard. >_>
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90 Night Elf Hunter
9810
Blizz. WHAT HAPPENED? The Mines and Herbs are Gone. This is crazy. There used to be plenty now Hardly Nothing. The respawn is way to slow for Mines and Herbs

Please fix this

Thanks Skindor
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87 Troll Druid
6385
If the 50% reduction was a 50% overall loss in quantity, I wouldn't care. But it's much worse than that. The only thing I farm herbs for in daily inscription research, and making the resulting new glyphs to send to alts.

In the area I farm herbs for my inscription research, before 5.1 I could do a complete circle of my farming spot and walk away with 2 - 3 stacks of millable herbs (or more on good days) in about 30 minutes.

Since 5.1, in the same area during the same time frames, I went from those 2 - 3 stacks to 2 - 3 nodes.

I'm willing to concede that for the most part, I can't see any competition due to phasing issues. But a full circuit of the area for 30 minutes, even with competition, I would have lapped the competition at some point and pulled up something more than 2 - 3 nodes. It's incredibly frustrating.
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85 Goblin Death Knight
10415
If the 50% reduction was a 50% overall loss in quantity, I wouldn't care. But it's much worse than that. The only thing I farm herbs for in daily inscription research, and making the resulting new glyphs to send to alts.

In the area I farm herbs for my inscription research, before 5.1 I could do a complete circle of my farming spot and walk away with 2 - 3 stacks of millable herbs (or more on good days) in about 30 minutes.

Since 5.1, in the same area during the same time frames, I went from those 2 - 3 stacks to 2 - 3 nodes.

I'm willing to concede that for the most part, I can't see any competition due to phasing issues. But a full circuit of the area for 30 minutes, even with competition, I would have lapped the competition at some point and pulled up something more than 2 - 3 nodes. It's incredibly frustrating.

Farming fool's cap or green tea leaf? I have had no problems getting herbs on my herbalist, and while I do mill them, the majority of the herbs I mill for inscription comes from the AH. I would rather pay a herbalist a servants wage then waste my own time flying in circles...even for 30 min a day.
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100 Tauren Druid
10455
I don't really understand all of the outcry about the reduction besides for Fool's Cap. There are still a ton of nodes around, many more than any previous expansion. Heck, the other night I gave myself an hour to see how many stacks I could get (mainly farming Green Tea/Silkweed) to mill. I gathered 40+ stacks, not to mention 6 lotuses.

Try Valley of the Four Winds. I can't speak for the other types of herbs, but man, Green Tea and Silkweed are very abundant there. But maybe my server is just special or something?
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
16135
My druid is currently leveling through Kun Lai summit. I've filled my bags with ghost iron and green leaf tea. I'm having no problem gathering with little competition. As Jozie says, are you farming in the right places? In a few hours over two nights I've picked a few dozen stacks. This should be more than enough to satisfy the amount needed for a Scroll of Wisdom each day.

Fool's Cap may have a higher yield of Mystic pigments but all Pandarian plants will give you the basic components needed for inscription. A stack of Green Leaf Tea a day should be all you need to pick to make a scroll.

*It should be noted that I gather when leveling for the bonus to experience and to have a "starter set" to level my professions when I hit level cap. I do not gather the majority of my herbs and ore. I use the auction house just like anyone wanting to make serious gold and still have time to play the game should do. Verelyse gave an excellent example of how "oppurtunity cost" works. *
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