World of Warcraft®

would it be better to stack 320 haste for yellow sockets?

Blatty just said that fire scales with gear more and if you have average gear, fire will suck.

I agree with this.
I don't remember which thread(maybe the deleted thread), but I remember posting that needing really good gear (heroic raiding gear) to enjoy a specific spec is just bad game designing.
Unless you have really good gear, you'll mostly be spamming fireball with shi**y ignites and combustion...

12/02/2012 12:59 PMPosted by Ashenan

would it be better to stack 320 haste for yellow sockets?

Every mage spec scales in such a way that at 2 points of the best secondary stat (in this case, haste for arcane) is better than 1 point of Int.

Haste affects your mana regen which is your lifeblood in the spec.

It also increases your mana consumption rate by making you cast faster. Haste increases your mana regen and your mana consumption rate at proportionate levels, which means that, if you do the exact same rotation with 5% haste or 25% haste, your mana levels should remain relatively similar throughout the rotation.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't looked at mana management in quite a while.

Haste affects your mana regen which is your lifeblood in the spec.

It also increases your mana consumption rate by making you cast faster. Haste increases your mana regen and your mana consumption rate at proportionate levels, which means that, if you do the exact same rotation with 5% haste or 25% haste, your mana levels should remain relatively similar throughout the rotation.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't looked at mana management in quite a while.

This was what I was thinking which is why I was wondering how Haste > Mastery became the norm.

It's totally possible that stacking Haste provides a higher increase in DPS than stacking Mastery, but the reason would not be because of the mana regen haste gives.

Also have to remember, any time *not* spent casting, haste's faster regen will start to show.

But still mastery increases damage by a lot more per point which still confuses me about haste. I do believe that mana gems increase with haste too

It also increases your mana consumption rate by making you cast faster. Haste increases your mana regen and your mana consumption rate at proportionate levels, which means that, if you do the exact same rotation with 5% haste or 25% haste, your mana levels should remain relatively similar throughout the rotation.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't looked at mana management in quite a while.

You need to get out of the Cata Arcane mentality. It's not the same by any means.

Remember glyphed mana gem gives you 10 charges, and your consumption rate on free casting single target no longer astronomically reduces your mana pool since 5.1 hit.

Any AM proc also gives you channeling time where you are gaining mana while using a free cast. Arcane Power also reduces your mana costs while up.

Between gem and proc rng you can keep your mana decently high as well as the time you're forced to move and can only scorch/ice lance.

Essentially once you get to 85% mana (it takes a little bit to get there between encounter design and AP), you look to use gem. If you can't use gem, then you can clear charges and you'll pop up pretty quick.

hmm, testing both out for about 20min each on a dummy i sustain about 5k more dps stacking mastery with mage armor, than stacking haste with frost armor. But I can see haste helping deal with mechanics if only because i can get more casts off inbetween times that i have to move and am more likely to get a cast off after moving before my stacks fall off.

It also increases your mana consumption rate by making you cast faster. Haste increases your mana regen and your mana consumption rate at proportionate levels, which means that, if you do the exact same rotation with 5% haste or 25% haste, your mana levels should remain relatively similar throughout the rotation.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't looked at mana management in quite a while.

You need to get out of the Cata Arcane mentality. It's not the same by any means.

Remember glyphed mana gem gives you 10 charges, and your consumption rate on free casting single target no longer astronomically reduces your mana pool since 5.1 hit.

Any AM proc also gives you channeling time where you are gaining mana while using a free cast. Arcane Power also reduces your mana costs while up.

Between gem and proc rng you can keep your mana decently high as well as the time you're forced to move and can only scorch/ice lance.

Essentially once you get to 85% mana (it takes a little bit to get there between encounter design and AP), you look to use gem. If you can't use gem, then you can clear charges and you'll pop up pretty quick.

I agree on the fact that when you have downtime and you have to move, your mana will regen faster with more haste, and that can be valuable.

However, my point was aimed towards people that are saying the reason to stack haste is BECAUSE of the mana regen, which I strongly disagree with. Haste can in fact provide a higher dps boost than mastery, that's provable. But to say the reason that haste is better is because of the mana regen that it gives you, that is where I disagree.

What I was saying is that if you do the same rotation, while only standing still, once with 5% haste, and the other with 25% haste, you'll find that your mana levels throughout the rotation will remain relatively the same. As in you won't have more mana after a set number of casts with more haste than you would with less haste.

This is because haste increases your mana regen, but also makes you consume mana faster by making you cast faster. Now, I believe this relation is proportional, meaning that it will increase your mana regen rate by the same percentage that it will increase your casting speed. Which basically means that haste will not provide you with mana gains the more you stack it, assuming you are always casting.

I agree that haste could provide a higher dps boost than mastery, but not mainly because it increases your mana regen.

Also, Arcane Power increases your mana casts while it's active.

How much gear is good gear...? I really can't afford to go into raid in a subpar spec. We are having enough trouble as it is.

12/02/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Noomage

Every mage spec scales in such a way that at 2 points of the best secondary stat (in this case, haste for arcane) is better than 1 point of Int.

This is not true for Arcane. At two to one int still wins out.

But what does cause an increase in more DPS with haste than mastery? Point per point, mastery seems better than haste. Mana regen isn't that main reason to use haste but it's not bad. But what does increase haste's priority over mastery?

If you guys will pay attention, Blatty's testing both. He's reforged/gemmed mastery now. Calm your !@#$, and give it time.

12/02/2012 04:03 PMPosted by Koviko

How much gear is good gear...? I really can't afford to go into raid in a subpar spec. We are having enough trouble as it is.

Blatty already stated, but because of Critical Mass nerf,
Fire mages scale with gear more than ever.
Most fire mages lost around 8% crit, so I'd say gear which gives us that lost crit back.
I'm not sure if even being fully decked with heroic raiding gear gives us that crit rating back.

Either way, casual PvE'ers can no longer enjoy playing the fire spec.

12/02/2012 04:36 PMPosted by Epitome

If you guys will pay attention, Blatty's testing both. He's reforged/gemmed mastery now. Calm your !@#$, and give it time.

I need to know now! NOW!

Has he said anything? Is it any better? Has anyone tried? Anything? Quickly now!

So, any updates on this? :D

In my current gear, is it best I just go frost or even arcane an option? This sucks we go on ep system for looting. It will be hard to get my haste gear after I swapped two weeks ago

Man oh man everyone needs to wait more than a couple days before we start jumping on which armor is better which stat weight is better. They're all being tested so just relax.