Mistweavers: After the hotfix's and 5.1.

90 Pandaren Monk
7420
Before 5.1, we were painfully over-powered. Took absolutely no skill or talent at all. Even in 10 mans it was a joke.

After 5.1, we had incredible amounts of mana regen, but had lost a lot of power. In order to remain competitive with other raid healers, we reforged out of spirit and into throughput stats and gemmed for throughput rather than regen. This change allowed us to remain 2-3k above most raid healers(10 man normal content, 480 ilvl). Which given our lack of raid walls etc, was a fair trade off to be a few thousand HPS higher (Nothing game breaking mind you).

These 5.1 hotfix's brought our mana generation back to nearly post 5.1 levels, while still dropping the HPS/healing done we were capable of. This meant that in order to not run oom, we needed to reforge back out of those throughput stats and into spirit again in order to not run oom on progression content, even while intelligently healing. By not being able to reforge for the extra thoughput, our healing done/hps dropped considerably again. With flawless play (RnM on CD, uplift when it won't overheal, TFT vs incoming raid damage- Adds on Elegon, twister phase of Blade lord, etc. ) we are now in a position where we can "match" other raid healers HPS, barely, in 10's, and in 25's are frequently out healed by shammys/druids/priests.

While I have no issue with being at the same HPS/healing value of other healers in 10s(I don't do 25's anyway), having the same HPS/Healing done but with no powerful raid utility is sub-optimal to say the least. A disc priest, can currently do everything we can, but with a better tank CD, a stronger raid CD, and better single target healing. Shammy's have better raid utility, pallys have a raid wall, and arguably one of the best "oh !@#$" (LoH) buttons for tank healing, while also being able to heal both tanks at the same time. Druids have a tank CD, and TWO massive raid CD's (Tranq and Tree).

We have.... a glorified PW:Shield, and revival. Now, in 10's, revival is pretty decent actually (But both Tranq and hymm are more powerful). Life cocoon is a joke, even in 10's(Edit: With the 100% increase to the healing of life cocoon further testing is required. I'd even lean towards it being semi decent as a "Oh !@#$" button to save a tank.)

I could tolerate the increased mana costs on our spells. It forces much tighter play, but it's workable, even if a far more difficult time than other healers (Surging mist, with 2 set, and factoring in the 1% mana return from the chi it produces, is still 18.7k, vs a disc priest with 2 set's 14k). What honestly hurt the most was the nerf if the chi generation on soothing mist. at 35%, it was just enough to allow for "smooth" healing, and with proper timing, pooling chi at an effective rate in order to heal vs incoming burst. Dropping it back down to 30% may not seem a big deal on paper, but it returns a lot of the clunky/unreliable nature of ranged healing to the mistweaver spec. Now that holy pallys no longer need to remain in melee to not run oom in 20 seconds flat, we are the only healer that is heavily crippled due to a positional requirement.

On high mobility fights, eminence healing is heavily crippled by the 20 yard range. On melee unfriendly fights(like Feng) ranged healing is heavily chi starved and lackluster.

Blizz, I am not asking a buff to our healing ratio's, or even a nerf to our spell costs(even if I do think the 5.1 hotfix hit was a bit overkill).

I am asking for two quality of life changes.

( 1 ) Eminence healing range being increased to 40 yards to account for the high mobility nature of current raiding.

( 2 ) Return the chi generation on soothing mists to 35% in order to allow ranged healing to be an effective play style when the encounter demands it. (If this means a 15% increase in mana cost to offset the increased chi generation, I'd even be willing to work with that.)

I understand that in 25 mans the high volume of players creates inflated healing for monks. If this is what you are attempting to address, you are nerfing the wrong spells.

Spinning Crane Kick, Chi Burst, and our mastery, are the three most powerful effects in 25 man content. If you are trying to reign in 25 man mistweaver healers, then reducing the healing value on THOSE spells will allow you to do so while barely impacting 10 man mistweavers at all as those spells are often terribly inefficent in 10man content.
Edited by Gajan on 12/4/2012 9:36 AM PST
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The only issue I have is disc priests , disc priests bring damage as well as shields. In it's current state, it's the best healer of them all.

Holy priests supposedly do more dps than shadow priests now.

I'm fine with being "equal" to paladins / shaman / druids. That said I haven't raided since the hotfix but I don't think it will be that bad.

Also, you shouldn't be using surging mists at all, healing sphere is the way to go.
Edited by Flutterdash on 12/4/2012 9:44 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6995
12/04/2012 09:43 AMPosted by Flutterdash
Also, you shouldn't be using surging mists at all, healing sphere is the way to go.


Discovered this truth last night. Surging Mist is dead to me.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7420
I can't remember the last time I actually used surging mist, primarily because the mana cost is so obnoxious. But I agree, spamming healing sphere's under someone is sadly much much more efficient. I was just using those spells as a comparison. Sadly, the easiest time I had doing an LFR garalon of all things, was spamming healing sphere's the ENTIRE fight other than keeping RnM on CD and using uplift. I topped heals.....
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
If you are being outhealed by a DRUID in 25m content the problem is in no way entirely with your class. If you're going to exaggerate do it responsibly.

And there is not one person who isn't certifiably insane who won't agree that Disc Priest need severe nerfs. Of every imaginable kind. They have the highest raw throughput, with a huge portion of it being absorbs (the best kind of healing). They have the most powerful healing CD in the game, one of the most powerful in living memory... which is on a ONE MINUTE cooldown - and is capable of trivializing almost all major damage mechanics. Their mana regeneration is completely broken in every way. On top of all this, they can do a very non-negligible amount of DPS during all of this.
Edited by Eleäzaras on 12/4/2012 10:33 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
7420
To be fair, said druid out healed me on stoneguard LFR when we had the "steady" damage one up and people were all over the place so I couldn't even make great use of SCK spam+chi burst where as he could rejuv the entire raid. Again, I am not asking for buffs to our HPS, or our mana efficiency. I honestly think that both of those are fine where they are if you actually let you hots tick properly (I'm a former resto druid, and before that a disc/holy priest) instead of just blasting everyone you can with uplift and letting your hots tick on people with full health endlessly. Smart play, even with the mana cost and healing power nerfs(Which again, pre 5.0 was just sad. I switched to monk because it looked like a challenging spec to play as a healer, not because I wanted a 3 button easy mode rotation that put me 30-40% higher than every other healer while never running oom). The "power" of the monk is acceptable where it is. I am just asking for more reliable healing from eminence on high mobility fights, and more reliable chi generation on fights that heavily punish being in melee(Like Feng, 75% chance to miss anyone?).
Edited by Gajan on 12/4/2012 10:43 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
XXL
6375
Mistweavers have no identity at present, I'm sure spamming healing sphere is not it, but it's what blizz has cornered us into. Sub-par testing and knee jerk nerfs is for less experienced developers, but thats what we got also.

Mistweaving is so clunky to use, in fact I'll go as far as saying, people are scared to open our tool kit to use it. RM is in a pretty bad state, I find that more often that not when AOE/dam hits the raid I have RM on 1-2 people that have actually taken the damage for uplift, I just shake my head and think what a waste of mana that was (RM).

Yep they buffed cocoon and it will have some use I guess, but a shield on a 2 min CD, little bit boring if you ask me. We still lack uniqueness and other classes bring so much more to raids.

As it stands (IMO) Healing as MW is like hinding around a corner in a street gun battle and not wanting to put our hand out in fear of getting hit, because when we use anything to heal it fricken hurts.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12695
12/04/2012 10:50 AMPosted by Sevair
Mistweavers have no identity at present

You managed to put in words the bad feeling that I was having and didn't know what it was.
And unfortunately, the only thing I'm waiting from the Devs is a nerf to Healing Sphere till the end of the week.
It'll come, my friends. It'll come.
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90 Human Priest
7475
o_0

Monks saying disc priests are OP. What a dfference a few weeks make =D
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
Monks saying disc priests are OP. What a dfference a few weeks make =D


Don't worry. The more you brag about it, the bigger your nerf will be. We learned that the hard way.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
o_0

Monks saying disc priests are OP. What a dfference a few weeks make =D


12/04/2012 04:03 PMPosted by Mist
Don't worry. The more you brag about it, the bigger your nerf will be. We learned that the hard way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trvwVoLtqVI
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90 Human Monk
9105
My problem is that they didn't just nerf my healing (we deserved that a bit) but they broke fistweaving so that it is in no way mana justified anymore. The big hps problem was RNM, they should have left eminence alone so that the class would actually have its own style. Until last week I had the most fun I've had in four years with this character and now I'm just regretting all the time spent grinding reps on it.

Broken healer is broken. I'm oom (while using both spirits of the sun and the relic of chi ji, flasked) in raid finder and its just depressing. Soothing mists is a dull mechanic. Crackling jade is a fun mechanic, but costs too much mana. Ditto jabbing. I spent hours on getting my chi rotation just timed perfectly and now I'm on the weakest healer I've ever played.

Healing sphere is indeed a moronic mechanism and it doesn't even interface with our chi!
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90 Pandaren Monk
7985
I started out as a rangeweaver, healing from afar as it was what i was used to as a Priest.

Briefly before 5.1, I started fistweaving and absolutely fell in love. I was hooked.

Post 5.1 I am going back to my priest to increase my chances of being included in guild raids.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
o_0

Monks saying disc priests are OP. What a dfference a few weeks make =D


Have you looked at Raid bots as of late. In all but 10 man normal Disc swiched places with where monks were pre 5.1 in score basically.


He's being a twit.
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90 Orc Monk
8995
12/04/2012 09:33 AMPosted by Gajan
Spinning Crane Kick, Chi Burst, and our mastery, are the three most powerful effects in 25 man content.


I believe the real issue that made us look so OP was TFT. That was where 25m monks looked so much better than 10m. Nerfing SCK, chi burst/wave and all the other abilities was the wrong move as it greatly affected 10m healing where we weren't that over powered.
However being able to TFT and get possibly 21 targets with ReM and then being able to spam uplift with that... lets say approximately 40k uplifts on all those targets; thats about 800k healing for 2 chi (give or take depending on crits).
Blizzard took the wrong approach to these nerfs even for 5.1 (let alone the hotfix).

What they don't seem to realise as everyone points out is that we bring nothing in terms of utility pre-5.1. All we were was the class that could bring great throughput to make up for the fact we had nothing else. What logs and parses dont show is how much the other healers did in terms of MITIGATED damage (pw:b, SLT, dev aura etc). If you account for that I am sure you will see we probably weren't as OP as people thought because we had to makeup for no utility for straight up throughput.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9085
I have played this toon sence bata and I LOVE IT more so then any other class in 8 years. In raids I was dpsing to heal. Sometimes as ranged with jade and a rushing jade wind and spin kick for aoe heals. Other times I would mele it up with blackout kick and jabs and expel harm. Sometimes a few casts on low players or tank. I WAS A DPS HEALER!! Just like they said I would be. Now with the HOT FIX!! You changed my whole class with a hot fix. I now casts heals non stop a Soothing mist then EM on tank a hot and back agin. Iam not doing any dps at all. Why one may ask? I cant if I mele I go OOM befor 25% into the fight. If I caster dps I go OOM 35% into the fight. I didnt sigh up for or gear and test a toon that was going to be just like everyother healer. Iam some durid/shadowpriest thing!! If dps was the problem as far as our dps in numbers that we could beat a really really bad dps fine. Nerf the dps but dont make it so I cant dps to heal. I dont care if my dps gets nerfed to 75% of what it is. I just wanted to be a battle sage type class like we were. I cant beleave you do this kind of change in a hot fix!!?? I dont get it. I have never seen you change a class that much in a hot fix. I should have known somehing was up when healers lost pvp power for dps. More so for monks. I mean why take our dps buff away for pvp. Like we could kill a guy with the buff we had befor!!?? Please respond to me in some way. I am allready on a server that Iam outnubed 9 to 1 doing dailys with no hope in sight on a pvp server. Iam kind of at my witts end and I loved this expasion more then any in the past. Please give a dog a bone with some kind of response. Thank you. Sighed a monk that wants to Punch agin.
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90 Human Priest
7475
12/04/2012 04:10 PMPosted by Tiriél
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trvwVoLtqVI


I just got around to looking at this. Freaking Hilarious
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90 Pandaren Monk
11830
12/04/2012 06:35 PMPosted by Jezbro
Spinning Crane Kick, Chi Burst, and our mastery, are the three most powerful effects in 25 man content.


I believe the real issue that made us look so OP was TFT. That was where 25m monks looked so much better than 10m. Nerfing SCK, chi burst/wave and all the other abilities was the wrong move as it greatly affected 10m healing where we weren't that over powered.
However being able to TFT and get possibly 21 targets with ReM and then being able to spam uplift with that... lets say approximately 40k uplifts on all those targets; thats about 800k healing for 2 chi (give or take depending on crits).
Blizzard took the wrong approach to these nerfs even for 5.1 (let alone the hotfix).

What they don't seem to realise as everyone points out is that we bring nothing in terms of utility pre-5.1. All we were was the class that could bring great throughput to make up for the fact we had nothing else. What logs and parses dont show is how much the other healers did in terms of MITIGATED damage (pw:b, SLT, dev aura etc). If you account for that I am sure you will see we probably weren't as OP as people thought because we had to makeup for no utility for straight up throughput.


Ya this has really always been my problem. We were OP in 25 mans due to the mechanics of RM/TFT/Uplift having no target cap and no reduction in healing, allowing good monks to put out obscene numbers. Couple that with the fact that monk mastery is *so* much better in 25 mans, and it got ridiculous. However, in 10 mans, we were only "pretty good" with only 1 or 2 fights where we were topping meters over all other classes (largely elegon and garalon). They really should have made nerfs targetting 25 man specifically, like hard capping the number of targets RM can be on, as well as SCK and chi burst. This would have nerfed us in 25 mans, while leaving 10 man relatively untouched. Now we are only "good" in 25 mans, and just plain bad in 10 mans.
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90 Human Paladin
8725
Mistweavers have no identity at present

You managed to put in words the bad feeling that I was having and didn't know what it was.
And unfortunately, the only thing I'm waiting from the Devs is a nerf to Healing Sphere till the end of the week.
It'll come, my friends. It'll come.


It's better than having too defined of a role.

I guess blanking EF is something new...

Until it gets nerfed.
Edited by Meladee on 12/8/2012 10:24 AM PST
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