Can we talk about recuperate?

90 Goblin Rogue
0
recuperate is a rogue finisher that heals us for 3%hp/3s. It's durations based on CP's.
This heal is incredibly weak compared to other self heals and a big trade off when you look at the finishers that mut and sub rogues juggle in PvP. (Envenom/rupture/SnD/KS) (Eviscerate/rupture/SnD/KS).
Using a recup means you will lose something important, and it's unfortunate that the only actual heal in the rogue arsenal is so weak that it's hardly worth it. I really think we need to rework recup so it's still an effective cost-benefit versus your damage and/or utility, but without being so useless.
Some scattered ideas/thoughts:
Glyph to reduce healing but make the healing instant
Increase all healing recieved by 20% while active
make it a talent along side leeching, change it to a self heal that costs energy.
remove recuperate, buff leeching, change that tier to have self heals.

Any other thoughts?
Reply Quote
70 Goblin Mage
9630
how about making it regenerate 3%hp/1s under 30% hp, 3%hp/2s at 31-60% hp and 3%hp/3s at and above 61% hp?
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Rogue
0
11/22/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Jancie
how about making it regenerate 3%hp/1s under 30% hp, 3%hp/2s at 31-60% hp and 3%hp/3s at and above 61% hp?


That would depend, is it still a finisher? how would it be implemented? also i don't really like the idea of having a ripped off warrior talent. I want something unique.
Reply Quote
70 Goblin Mage
9630
how about making it regenerate 3%hp/1s under 30% hp, 3%hp/2s at 31-60% hp and 3%hp/3s at and above 61% hp?


That would depend, is it still a finisher? how would it be implemented? also i don't really like the idea of having a ripped off warrior talent. I want something unique.

Personally I think rogues should be able to bandage while stealthed, without breaking stealth.

As for Recup, what if instead of simply lasting longer per combo point it had an increased effect over a reduced duration per combo point? I think it'd be a much more attractive finisher this way, rather than feeling like a waste of a hotkey. It'd probably have to have a cooldown added to it depending on how effective a 5p Recup is, say 6% hp ticks per second for 5 seconds at 5 cps, and 1% per second for 30 seconds for 1 cp with a 30-90s (somewhere around there) cooldown across the board.

ed. clarity, flexibility on proposed cd
Edited by Jancie on 11/22/2012 6:27 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Rogue
14150
Honestly if there's 1 thing I don't want them adjusting it's recuperate.

It works great for questing with the glyph and I think that's where it belongs. I'd rather our damage and control be buffed than our self healing.

Id prefer to be faster and have more control.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
13830
DK's have a similarly restrictive opportunity cost through DS (as UH or Frost, obviously). Both are pretty bad and need to be replaced with something else or radically improved.

Recup could be rebalanced as a heal CD with an instant direct effect and a lingering HoT. You could have it restore more HP while in stealth or out of combat or something to give it some distinguishing factors for optimal use in line with the Rogue flavor.
As for cost, I have three ideas:
1) remain a CP costing ability with no cooldown. The lost finisher is the opportunity cost.
2) cost Energy with a short cooldown. Less restrictive than CP's but still impacts DPS.
3) zero cost, medium (2min or so) CD. Longer CD restricts usage to compensate for lack of impact on DPS.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
I think recuperate should just cost energy and not combo points.

But I doubt anything like that will happen, since rogues apparently need to be punished for last season where they used the tools blizzard gave them.

lol
Reply Quote
It's true that Rogue survivability isn't exactly top tier right now, and it's true that Recuperate (among other survivability abilities) took a hit ... but I'm not sure that increasing the strength of Recuperate is the best solution to Rogue survivability right now.

Among all the bad decisions we keep yelling at Blizzard for, they made some very good ones too. Currently, our survivability mechanic choices are one of those. Not everyone likes self heals, for those we have a choice of active mitigation in Elusiveness and an interesting choice of Cheat Death. For those who do like self healing, they can always both talent Leeching Poison and glyph Recuperate.

The point is, while Rogue survivability is bad, the choice of game play is quite good. Buff Recuperate's heal too much and you risk losing that.

I'd like to offer and alternative, buff Recuperate's duration.

Recuperate used to be an integral part of Sub's PvE rotation, and thus it's duration had to be limited in order to keep the rotation from being too dull. That's no longer the case. Instead, due to the Energetic Recuperate move, Sub PvP now has a "rotation," juggling finishers much as Mut did last expansion. That gives Recuperate a (much) higher opportunity cost than it had for PvP specced Rogues (who were all Sub spec).

Recuperate could have as much as a doubled duration and what would be the result? One extra finisher's worth of combo points could be spent on something else. That's it. It doesn't get OP because the healing amount stays low.

TL;DR: Don't increase Recup's strength, increase it's duration.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
10675
The problem with a self heal on a rogue is the amount of control you have over a fight essentially means that you can't ever die if the heal is anywhere near decent.

Also, 3% every 3 sec is not worse than 20% every 30 seconds which is what non-second wind warriors get. And second wind fires about 2 gcds before any competent dps will kill you.
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
7830
What if recuperate lasted for 20 SEC per combo point, and does exactly the same as it does now?

Also, if they are intending use to need feint for PVP, then the durration of feint being improved would help a lot.

Perhapse our 4 pc bonus could add 10 sec to feint?
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
8625
!@#$ rogues
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
5385

Personally I think rogues should be able to bandage while stealthed, without breaking stealth.


lol.... lol..... lol..... lol

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
2860
Get rid of that horrible 2pc bonus and replace it with something that improves recuperate.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Warrior
8815
11/24/2012 07:41 PMPosted by Celias
Get rid of that horrible 2pc bonus


Or make it the glove effect, extra energy is nice.
Reply Quote
39 Undead Rogue
10655

Personally I think rogues should be able to bandage while stealthed, without breaking stealth.


lol.... lol..... lol..... lol

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


rather wait for me to premed->recup for 5 minutes straight while i sap you every time you try to drink?
Edited by Jancith on 11/24/2012 11:16 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Rogue
0
It's true that Rogue survivability isn't exactly top tier right now, and it's true that Recuperate (among other survivability abilities) took a hit ... but I'm not sure that increasing the strength of Recuperate is the best solution to Rogue survivability right now.

Among all the bad decisions we keep yelling at Blizzard for, they made some very good ones too. Currently, our survivability mechanic choices are one of those. Not everyone likes self heals, for those we have a choice of active mitigation in Elusiveness and an interesting choice of Cheat Death. For those who do like self healing, they can always both talent Leeching Poison and glyph Recuperate.

The point is, while Rogue survivability is bad, the choice of game play is quite good. Buff Recuperate's heal too much and you risk losing that.

I'd like to offer and alternative, buff Recuperate's duration.

Recuperate used to be an integral part of Sub's PvE rotation, and thus it's duration had to be limited in order to keep the rotation from being too dull. That's no longer the case. Instead, due to the Energetic Recuperate move, Sub PvP now has a "rotation," juggling finishers much as Mut did last expansion. That gives Recuperate a (much) higher opportunity cost than it had for PvP specced Rogues (who were all Sub spec).

Recuperate could have as much as a doubled duration and what would be the result? One extra finisher's worth of combo points could be spent on something else. That's it. It doesn't get OP because the healing amount stays low.

TL;DR: Don't increase Recup's strength, increase it's duration.


You make some interesting points, my personal quarrel with just doubling recuperate's duration is that it kind of turns the ability into a slightly cheesy long heal. I can see a middle ground working well, but it still irks me to use combo points on recuperate as a 'finisher' when it's the only purely defensive 'finisher.' I agree that rogue survivability is more relevant in other areas(please remove prep). I'm glad you brought up the survivability tier because they are in my opinion all very very ineffective. Elusiveness costs energy and can't be used while stunned, cheat death only helps you if you are about to die, and even then its rarely going to change anything. Then leeching poison (which is the only talent choice that eliminates a future talent choice entirely) is available and makes shiv a heal for 5% of HP (around 13k) also heals on your attacks (not damage) for 10% of the damage dealt. I just can't see any of our survivability tier actually impacting my survival.
The problem with a self heal on a rogue is the amount of control you have over a fight essentially means that you can't ever die if the heal is anywhere near decent.

Also, 3% every 3 sec is not worse than 20% every 30 seconds which is what non-second wind warriors get. And second wind fires about 2 gcds before any competent dps will kill you.
This is just flat out wrong, and ironic coming from a warrior. Rogue control is absolutely minimal this expansion, and our self healing is down right pathetic. Meanwhile, if you use one of your many stuns right now below 35% its a fight reset. I think it's a tad patronizing to talk about second wind as if it's a weak ability, it gives you free rage and keeps you alive passively. All you have to do is keep being offensive and you end up being defensive as a result, 0 opportunity cost, unlike recup.
Edited by Leonoir on 11/25/2012 10:05 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Rogue
3645
at the very least it should tick every second.

imo, recup needs to not be a finisher. combo points being "stuck" on a target gives the implied design intention that CP's should be used for offensive abilities. recup is counter-intuitive in this regard. make it cost energy (10-20) and stack to X times for Y%.

i also think that leeching poison's shiv effect should be 10% hp.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Hunter
16960
Recuperate is fine. It's design intent was for leveling and questing, to heal up after you finish off an enemy that has combo points left on them. The only reason so many rogues see it as something they should be able to use effectively in combat is because it was tied to energetic recovery, which meant it had to be up at all times.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Rogue
11685
11/25/2012 10:46 AMPosted by Spinnerdh
Recuperate is fine. It's design intent was for leveling and questing, to heal up after you finish off an enemy that has combo points left on them. The only reason so many rogues see it as something they should be able to use effectively in combat is because it was tied to energetic recovery, which meant it had to be up at all times.

if it were specifically for use *after* combat, it would have been designed more like victory rush, and would likely be an instant heal.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]