Is World of Logs bugged? :s

90 Pandaren Monk
0
Mogu'shan Vaults
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/dps/

Heart of Fear
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Heart_of_Fear/dps/

Terrace of Endless Spring
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Terrace_of_Endless_Spring/dps/

Must be a bug or something on the logs? or PvE balance doesn't matter anymore?
Edited by Stuffed on 11/29/2012 4:18 AM PST
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90 Worgen Hunter
10980
Nope working as intended.
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100 Night Elf Priest
8480
11/29/2012 04:12 AMPosted by Stuffed
Must be a bug or something on the logs? or PvE balance doesn't matter anymore?


Mages have been strong for a long time, did balance ever matter?
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100 Troll Mage
16535
You guys know how fire mages are considered one of the most rng specs or all time?

This is the result.
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100 Undead Mage
9580
I'm hearing about some pretty crazy Ignite numbers leading to combusts that are in the stratosphere...
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85 Human Priest
3530
Saw this coming over a month ago. Blizzard significantly buffed Fire mage combustion to compensate for a proposed pyroblast nerf - then reverted the nerf but apparently forgot to revert the buff. Fire is borderline broken right now.
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100 Undead Mage
9580
11/29/2012 07:11 AMPosted by Lestrane
Blizzard significantly buffed Fire mage combustion to compensate for a proposed pyroblast nerf - then


Lhiv posted about the combustion change on the PTR a full week before the 3 second cooldown to pyroblast was added to the PTR....

Considering that it came before the pyroblast nerf, and remained after the pyroblast revert, I'm pretty sure that the combustion change had absolutely nothing to do with the pyroblast nerf.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
11/29/2012 04:12 AMPosted by Stuffed
Must be a bug or something on the logs? or PvE balance doesn't matter anymore?


Nah. It's just top 200s are statistically irrelevant so far as class balance goes.

Heck, considering WoL isn't a random (or normal, or at the very least it's impossible to prove that it's normal) sample anyways, you could go so far as to say that ALL WoL data is statistically irrelevant so far as class balance goes. An indicator sure, but not something anyone can take and definitively say is a representation of how everyone is doing with any real accuracy.

Something that'd be somewhat accurate when saying the highs are a little too high and the lows are a little too low, but anything specifically on that's open to a lot of error that we can't predict.
Edited by Gistwiki on 11/29/2012 7:32 AM PST
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I agree its getting pretty silly, not to mention a standard deviation of +/- 40k doesn't exactly help our case when balancing DPS numbers :/.
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MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
11/29/2012 07:26 AMPosted by Sethmann
Blizzard significantly buffed Fire mage combustion to compensate for a proposed pyroblast nerf - then


Lhiv posted about the combustion change on the PTR a full week before the 3 second cooldown to pyroblast was added to the PTR....

Considering that it came before the pyroblast nerf, and remained after the pyroblast revert, I'm pretty sure that the combustion change had absolutely nothing to do with the pyroblast nerf.


The Combustion change was meant to be neutral: eliminate the Pyroblast DOT's contribution, buff Ignite's contribution, wind up with similar numbers but make it matter more that you use it during a good Ignite. So average damage should have been roughly unchanged, but a good player who looks for a high Ignite before Combusting would do better and a bad player who just uses it on cooldown would do worse.

I haven't tested it myself, but based on what I'm hearing, they may have overbuffed the Ignite contribution. However, none of this has anything to do with the Pyroblast change they were experimenting with.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11670
11/29/2012 09:43 AMPosted by Lhivera
but a good player who looks for a high Ignite before Combusting would do better and a bad player who just uses it on cooldown would do worse.

Is this actually true? All through Cata, Fire mages talked about waiting for the right time to combust, while all sims were unanimous: If all DoTs are on a target, combust. This was because it meant higher combust uptime, and you didn't risk running into bad luck streaks were you waitied and waited to combust.

Do you have any data to show that it's any different now? My belief it's still very much a form of Monte Carlo fallacy, where people *think* waiting will be better, since the times they are luck they do better DPS, but as an average it is actually lower. "Oh, I got 2 big combustions in that fight. No matter I'd have gotten 3 or 4 if just using it when DoTs were up, which would have done more damage overall... The combustions I got did great damage by themselves!"
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MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
Prior to this change, my own sim work showed that you got best results simply by making sure Pyro was up and Ignite was ticking for more than about 10,000.

Now, however, Ignite is the sole contributor, and its contribution has been doubled. The cooldown being as short as it is, certainly you're not going to gain much by waiting, say, twenty seconds for a bigger Ignite. But if you're anticipating being able to dump a couple of Pyros into the target, it may be worth waiting 3-5 seconds to get their damage into your Combustion. I say "may" because I haven't done any work yet to find if and by how much the balance point between delayed use and larger ticks has shifted, but the mechanic suggests that it should at least have shifts a little bit. And I do know that that was part of the intention.
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100 Draenei Mage
19100
The Combustion change was meant to be neutral: eliminate the Pyroblast DOT's contribution, buff Ignite's contribution, wind up with similar numbers but make it matter more that you use it during a good Ignite. So average damage should have been roughly unchanged, but a good player who looks for a high Ignite before Combusting would do better and a bad player who just uses it on cooldown would do worse.

I haven't tested it myself, but based on what I'm hearing, they may have overbuffed the Ignite contribution. However, none of this has anything to do with the Pyroblast change they were experimenting with.


It is dead easy to get a good combustion now if you're paying attention to what spells are critting. Pyroblast can crit for upwards of 400k with the 2-set, skull banner and procs. Right now it's pretty easy to get a ~50k combustion, with mages obviously able to get much higher with a little more luck. Previously, a ~50k combustion would have been AWESOME no matter the circumstance.

I think this is probably what we were asking for since Combustion was changed and we went through the nightmare of early Cataclysm and often STRUGGLED to get a good combustion. You have to really not be paying attention to wind up with a poor Combustion now (or get rng screwed with crits).
Edited by Ryegeleye on 11/29/2012 12:30 PM PST
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100 Goblin Rogue
8135
Newsflash: one spec will be marginally higher in damage to the point that the best players of that spec will fill the rankings. Fire mages may be overtuned in PvE, but this is not a good way to argue that.
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90 Draenei Mage
16945
They absolutely overcompensated with the change to combustion. It's hitting significantly harder than before on average.
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90 Undead Mage
11870
11/29/2012 07:49 PMPosted by Kolzi
They absolutely overcompensated with the change to combustion. It's hitting significantly harder than before on average.


What you're seeing is no longer requiring a good pyro dot. For example, on monday, if you used AT and PoM to chain 4 pyros into a boss, your combustion was greatly impacted by whether or not that 4th pyro crit. If it did, you were gold - if not, you got a less than stellar combustion. This is due to the pyro dot overwriting the previous one when a new one is applied.

On tuesday, it didn't matter if that 4th one crit (same scenario). The 4 pyros contribute to the ignite dot, and that's all that matters.

The change took a small bite off of the RNG of combustion. That's it.
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MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
What you're seeing is no longer requiring a good pyro dot. For example, on monday, if you used AT and PoM to chain 4 pyros into a boss, your combustion was greatly impacted by whether or not that 4th pyro crit. If it did, you were gold - if not, you got a less than stellar combustion. This is due to the pyro dot overwriting the previous one when a new one is applied.

On tuesday, it didn't matter if that 4th one crit (same scenario). The 4 pyros contribute to the ignite dot, and that's all that matters.


On the contrary -- on Tuesday, it mattered more whether that Pyro crit. The size of the Pyro DOT is unaffected by whether or not the spell crits.

In other words, on Monday we had something like this:

Non-crit Pyro:
100,000 Direct Damage (no effect on Combustion)
16,500 DOT tick (adds 5500/tick to Combustion)
10,000 Ignite tick (adds 5000/tick to Combustion)

Crit Pyro:
200,000 Direct Damage (no effect on Combustion)
16,500 DOT tick (adds 5500/tick to Combustion)
20,000 Ignite tick (adds 10,000/tick to Combustion)

But on Tuesday, it changed to something like this:

Non-crit Pyro:
100,000 Direct Damage (no effect on Combustion)
16,500 DOT tick (adds nothing to Combustion)
10,000 Ignite tick (adds 10,000/tick to Combustion)

Crit Pyro:
200,000 Direct Damage (no effect on Combustion)
16,500 DOT tick (adds nothing to Combustion)
20,000 Ignite tick (adds 20,000/tick to Combustion)

So the contribution from the component that isn't affected by RNG (the Pyro DOT) was eliminated, while the contribution from the component that is affected by RNG (the Ignite) was doubled.
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90 Undead Mage
11870


On the contrary -- on Tuesday, it mattered more whether that Pyro crit. The size of the Pyro DOT is unaffected by whether or not the spell crits.


Tested and confirmed. I was mis-informed and I stand corrected. :)
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