Battleground Queues and Addons

90 Gnome Death Knight
10215
Why spend the time to state a feature to the game that is clearly not working..... Just entered a battleground 10 minutes ago and 7 out of the 10 were from the same server. 12 million players , whats the odds they would ques same time, same server, and get same battleground....

Sorry but don't post info that is just not true.
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
7045
Why spend the time to state a feature to the game that is clearly not working..... Just entered a battleground 10 minutes ago and 7 out of the 10 were from the same server. 12 million players , whats the odds they would ques same time, same server, and get same battleground....

Sorry but don't post info that is just not true.


They broke the ability to que via addon's

People can still get on vent and coordinate que's that way to get themselves into the same BG. It's been done since they removed the ability to que how many ever people you wanted to into a BG.

The basically just broke a convenience that is all, nothing more. People that still want to run premade random BGs can still do so.
90 Tauren Shaman
8755
^^^

And basically the only people deterred by their move are the lames that didnt want to put time into it in the first place. Kind of works out actually....
Edited by Facerooll on 12/3/2012 12:49 AM PST
All these Scrubs/Baddies who got carried and are crying (because they no longer get free 80-95% win rates need to just stop the QQ)

You exploited Blizzards EULA. The Developers never intended the game to be played this way, it was an oversite. You should be grateful that Blizzard doesn't initiate a Banwave to every single player who used these addons. If Blizzard wanted 40 people queing against a random pug team, they would have implemented it themselves.

Normal RBG, Alliance have about a 46% win rate vs 54% horde (MMOCHAMP source)

Now Picture that , either way PUG vs PREMADE.
Rates have just been skewered to 85% win rate for coordinated team using vent ( and abusing que system) and 10-15% for RBGS, full of people solo queing.

Why should someone be penalized for not having friends ingame? For not having a MIC? For not having a desire to exploit a flaw in the game? Or for simply expecting a level playing field.

That is bullcrap. I hope blizzard checks the logs and bans every single person who used those addons (AVPREQUE, OQue)

You wanna go run a premade? Go run a premade, doesn't mean you should get to play versus a random team. What does the guy who solo qued get? A bunch of bots afkers and baddies vs a coordinated machine. Seems Legit.

Leave this game, hypocrites like this are no worse then the botters they scold, they are simply trying to gain the best in game advantage possible in the easiest, most exploitative way possible. They don't want everyone to have the same shot. They want the balance of the game skewered in their favor, so they can get easy honor farm . And a game like that is not worth playing at all, for the people who play it legitimately.

I really hope it does come to Blizzard being the sole distributor/controllers of addons, because this crap is getting annoying. Addons are either used to exploit, obtain advantages, or decimate a level playing field.

With that , I leave the whiners with this simple yet effective statement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WHptG35EWU
Edited by Varun on 12/3/2012 1:09 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Mage
0
All these Scrubs/Baddies who got carried and are crying (because they no longer get free 80-95% win rates need to just stop the QQ)

You exploited Blizzards EULA. The Developers never intended the game to be played this way, it was an oversite. You should be grateful that Blizzard doesn't initiate a Banwave to every single player who used these addons. If Blizzard wanted 40 people queing against a random pug team, they would have implemented it themselves.

Normal RBG, Alliance have about a 46% win rate vs 54% horde (MMOCHAMP source)

Now Picture that , either way PUG vs PREMADE.
Rates have just been skewered to 85% win rate for coordinated team using vent ( and abusing que system) and 10-15% for RBGS, full of people solo queing.

Why should someone be penalized for not having friends ingame? For not having a MIC? For not having a desire to exploit a flaw in the game? Or for simply expecting a level playing field.

That is bullcrap. I hope blizzard checks the logs and bans every single person who used those addons (AVPREQUE, OQue)

You wanna go run a premade? Go run a premade, doesn't mean you should get to play versus a random team. What does the guy who solo qued get? A bunch of bots afkers and baddies vs a coordinated machine. Seems Legit.

Leave this game, hypocrites like this are no worse then the botters they scold, they are simply trying to gain the best in game advantage possible in the easiest, most exploitative way possible. They don't want everyone to have the same shot. They want the balance of the game skewered in their favor, so they can get easy honor farm . And a game like that is not worth playing at all, for the people who play it legitimately.

I really hope it does come to Blizzard being the sole distributor/controllers of addons, because this crap is getting annoying. Addons are either used to exploit, obtain advantages, or decimate a level playing field.

With that , I leave the whiners with this simple yet effective statement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WHptG35EWU


Damn....well said.

and ty for making me have a heart attack from laughing on that "effective" statement hahahahahhahahahaha

Edit: Baning is going too far,so that's the only thing i disagree with you,otherwise a very thought out "rage" post :))

Cheers :)
Edited by Raienryuu on 12/3/2012 1:21 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
7315
They broke the ability to que via addon's

People can still get on vent and coordinate que's that way to get themselves into the same BG. It's been done since they removed the ability to que how many ever people you wanted to into a BG.

The basically just broke a convenience that is all, nothing more. People that still want to run premade random BGs can still do so.

This. The people here who think this change is somehow proof that >5-man premades are "cheating" are ridiculous. They made a change to what is possible to do with Lua code. Did they make any changes to their rules? No, they didn't. The point of the change was to break the convenience that oQueue gave to queue timing. oQueue made queue timing so convenient that it greatly increased its usage, which resulted in an upsurge of complaining sore losers to the point where Blizzard felt they needed to placate them with this change. It does not, in any way, signify that >5-man premades constitute "cheating". If you still actually believe the contrary, I implore you to join me in requesting a blue post to set the record straight on this. I would absolutely love for that to happen, because I know what the answer would be. So, blues: does timing queues to get a group of >5 players in the same BG constitute cheating?

You exploited Blizzards EULA. The Developers never intended the game to be played this way, it was an oversite. You should be grateful that Blizzard doesn't initiate a Banwave to every single player who used these addons. If Blizzard wanted 40 people queing against a random pug team, they would have implemented it themselves.

There are so many patently absurd things in your post I don't know where to begin. Here, let me just make things quick and easy:

I used oQueue before the patch.
I continue to use oQueue after the patch (it has a bit less functionality than previously as a result of the Lua changes).
I participate in premades which use queue timing in Vent in order to get >5 people into the same BG.

There it is, a public "admission" of "cheating" (as defined by your camp) on Blizzard's official forums. If you're still so certain that these actions constitute cheating, then report me right now. See what happens. I will bet you any amount you care to bet that absolutely nothing detrimental will happen to me because your assertions regarding this activity are flat out false.

Sources (yes, I actually research things before spouting off about them):

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2743811244 (response to a thread specifically about premade groups of >5 people)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3389171453?page=22#425 (response to another thread specifically about premade groups of >5 people)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3389171453?page=23#443 (follow up in same thread)
Edited by Karsi on 12/3/2012 7:13 AM PST
85 Dwarf Rogue
5470
In patch 5.1, we resolved some issues regarding how Addons interact with the Battleground queue system. It is no longer possible to automate queuing for standard or random Battlegrounds in groups larger than 5. We decided to make this change in order to improve the experience for all players who are queueing into random groups normally and expecting to face similarly random groups, only to find themselves crushed by a full team of coordinated opponents.

We understand that players want to enjoy coordinated team play, and we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience. Players can continue to use Addons to queue for Rated Battlegrounds as well.


This just further shows you guys are IDIOTS. You say "we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience".. How about implementing a system that makes that possible for ALL people to do, not just people on populated servers. I love how you break something before providing a solution for the players.. that is your job.

I take my comment back about Ghostcrawler needing to lose his job.. And I reinsert that with YOU and Ghostcrawler should probably both be in the unemployment line.. You guys are worthless. Go play Runescape
Edited by Worst on 12/3/2012 6:03 AM PST
100 Human Priest
17435

This just further shows you guys are IDIOTS. You say "we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience".. How about implementing a system that makes that possible for ALL people to do, not just people on populated servers.
You can queue for wargames in realid parties, iirc. Only the two leaders need to be on the same server (or at least able to see and click on each other; crz may have made it even easier, idk.).
They broke the ability to que via addon's

People can still get on vent and coordinate que's that way to get themselves into the same BG. It's been done since they removed the ability to que how many ever people you wanted to into a BG.

The basically just broke a convenience that is all, nothing more. People that still want to run premade random BGs can still do so.
Sure. That's why he said
We understand that players want to enjoy coordinated team play, and we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience. Players can continue to use Addons to queue for Rated Battlegrounds as well.
instead of "players can continue to circumvent the party size limit using other methods?' I mean, really, do you think that Blizzard wants some people to cheat, but just not 'too many?' Do you think they just thought pub stomping had gotten 'too mainstream?' You are lying to yourself. They didn't 'change the rules' because they didn't need to; contrary to what the yes-men on the public vent will tell you, this was always against the rules. Sure, maybe you won't get banned right now. Maybe they won't find a way to break the new version of the addon's queue automation feature. That doesn't mean it isn't a cheat. How many botters are out there still playing the game? Sometimes people get away with cheating, sometimes for a long time. That doesn't mean they aren't breaking the rules.

And in your 'research' it's interesting that you only bothered with the vaguer blue posts and missed this one very clear and specific one:
This is not something that we are encouraging, but it is also something that we currently have no realistic way to prevent. That being said, this is something that may change soon, which is why we always advise people to not use any type of add-on designed to circumvent or bend our balancing safeguards... using such add-ons can lead to severe account penalties!

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3523403390?page=5#94

Twist those words, and the OP, all you like; it's very clear that this is not something that Blizzard considers acceptable. Cheating is cheating. They only made it harder instead of preventing it altogether, but that's because they currently can't prevent it (just like they can't completely prevent botting) rather than because they don't want to.

You can't rules-lawyer this. Just because you're not an addon doesn't mean that you're not 'circumventing a balancing safeguard.'
90 Human Warlock
7005
11/30/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Lothrik
You're completely delusional if you think your addon was "fair" in any shape or form to the people you did random BGs against.


The addon was "fair" since it was publicly avaialble to both factions.

The key points that I believe this addon brought to light were:

A) Bots suck and no one wants to play with them. We waited and waited and waiting from 5.0, 5.05, 5.1.... for a solution and got nothing from Blizzard other than 'Keep giving us your data." Meanwhile the community is suffering....

B) Blizzard couldn't come up with a solution, so the community took care of it ourselves, and in quite a speedy timeframe if I might say so myself. OQueue has a solution to disable queing with certain individuals. This is so simple and elegant. We mark someone we didn't want to queue with. Bang. Done.

C) Just what exactly is taking so long to solve the bot problem? Their are so many options available, and have been discussed for years.... Why have none of these solutions come to fruition? Why is it that the community EMBRACES a solution only to have the solution 'fixed' faster than the problem? Mr. Blizzard... you need to get your priorities straight.
90 Human Paladin
7315
Cylthia,

Where in the blue post you quoted does it say using queue timing to form premades constitutes cheating? It simply doesn't say anything of the sort. "This is not something we're encouraging." You can tell just by the softness of that statement that they don't consider it cheating. Would they ever say "it's not something we're encouraging, but..." when talking about botting? No, that would be absurd. They take hard stances on activities which actually constitute cheating, and would say something such as "we do not allow this, as it is a violation of our Terms of Use. If you suspect someone of this, please report them and we will look into it."

What they "encourage" and what they don't is meaningless to the question of what is against the rules and what is not. I could name an endless number of things which they don't actively "encourage" but are not against the rules.

As for the rest of that blue post, namely: "using such add-ons can lead to severe account penalties!" There's not much else to say about that other than: he's flat out incorrect, he was foolish to say it, and there is eight years worth of evidence proving that. Blizzard does not ban people for using certain addons, ever (by addons I'm specifically referring to things written in Lua). Plain and simple. If an addon is doing something they don't want it to do, they break it. That's all they ever do.

The posts I cited are vague? Let's go over just the first one again:

Q:
are premades allowed in bg's still?

I been seeing a ton of alliance premades in our random bg groups. They are using the av enabler to form premades against random bg'ers instead of the rated bg's for groups that large. This is allowed or should they be reported?

A:
07/05/2011 06:34 PMPosted by Vrakthris
There is nothing against queueing up for a Battleground at the same time as others.


That is possibly the most non-vague blue answer to this issue that exists.
Edited by Karsi on 12/3/2012 9:06 AM PST
92 Tauren Death Knight
7695
I'm still convinced that the wrong person got farmed by an OQ premade. AV enabler was available for years. OQ has been available for what, 10 months? I've only ever seen Blizzard move faster to stop Holy pallies, and to fix pve issues.

actually, v1.0, which barely worked, came out around march... the beta popped out around the end of june (5 months ago)

the number of ppl using it is only 1000-3000 ... an insignificant number compared to the supposed millions playing the game

makes you wonder ... either the number of players playing are VASTLY overstated... or we farmed a few blizz tears along the way

(unless their intention truly was to block the XPon/XPoff exploit, which would be counter to the blue post)
90 Human Paladin
7315
Just found another non-vague, very direct blue post about this:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4422092414#15

One last point, since you mentioned it... premade groups are not against our policies.

premade groups are not against our policies.

premade groups are not against our policies.


When will the piling evidence be enough for you to abandon your sinking "it's cheating!!" ship?
100 Human Priest
17435
The posts I cited are vague? Let's go over just the first one again:

Q:
are premades allowed in bg's still?

I been seeing a ton of alliance premades in our random bg groups. They are using the av enabler to form premades against random bg'ers instead of the rated bg's for groups that large. This is allowed or should they be reported?

A:
07/05/2011 06:34 PMPosted by Vrakthris
There is nothing against queueing up for a Battleground at the same time as others.


That is possibly the most non-vague blue answer to this issue that exists.
Only if you completely ignore the OP of this very thread.
12/03/2012 08:45 AMPosted by Karsi
What they "encourage" and what they don't is meaningless to the question of what is against the rules and what is not. I could name an endless number of things which they don't actively "encourage" but are not against the rules.
Bull. You really do sound desperate here. Get this through your head: you can not play semantic games with the game's rules and expect them to be effective. Blizzard should not have to fix every tiny little verbal loophole you think you can find in their statements about premades. They think they are bad for the game. They think they are unfair for the players on the other team. That is simply all there is to it. Maybe you'll get banned and maybe you won't, but you've got no business claiming that what you're doing is anything but abusive.

Explain this to me: if they think pub stomping is okay, why break the addons? Why would they bother just making it slightly harder if they were okay with it? Why tell you to go play rateds and wargames?
12/03/2012 08:53 AMPosted by Tinymasher
I'm still convinced that the wrong person got farmed by an OQ premade. AV enabler was available for years. OQ has been available for what, 10 months? I've only ever seen Blizzard move faster to stop Holy pallies, and to fix pve issues.

actually, v1.0, which barely worked, came out around march... the beta popped out around the end of june (5 months ago)

the number of ppl using it is only 1000-3000 ... an insignificant number compared to the supposed millions playing the game

makes you wonder ... either the number of players playing are VASTLY overstated... or we farmed a few blizz tears along the way

(unless their intention truly was to block the XPon/XPoff exploit, which would be counter to the blue post)
Wow, you really are full of yourself, aren't you? Do you really think that people who spend so much time trying to make a game as fair and fun as possible like seeing honest players rolled over by people who decide to just ignore a very simple and reasonable limit on premade size, and that the only reason they'd put a stop to it is if they were personally affected by it?

Well, that's the griefer mentality for you.
91 Undead Warrior
12990
12/03/2012 08:21 AMPosted by Nutuprshutup
I'm still convinced that the wrong person got farmed by an OQ premade. AV enabler was available for years. OQ has been available for what, 10 months? I've only ever seen Blizzard move faster to stop Holy pallies, and to fix pve issues.


Nut, it might all be as simple as this. there are a lot
of convincing indicators that point to this very thing.

imagine, patching is governed by somebody at blizz
who got their feelings hurt in a battleground.

just, wow.

Cheers.
Pleb.

more:
there was a huge campaign prior to release of MoP
that extolled pvp, will put the war back into warcraft,
glorified grouping with friends, and now, two months
after release, a patch is released to reverse all that.

what is really going on here?
Edited by Theplebian on 12/3/2012 10:17 AM PST
92 Tauren Death Knight
7695
Wow, you really are full of yourself, aren't you? Do you really think that people who spend so much time trying to make a game as fair and fun as possible like seeing honest players rolled over by people who decide to just ignore a very simple and reasonable limit on premade size, and that the only reason they'd put a stop to it is if they were personally affected by it?

Well, that's the griefer mentality for you.

the ORIGINAL intent for BGs was to be able to join up with your guildies, up to 40 people, and enjoy the BGs. that's right... we all use to be able to queue up in raids and join AV as full premades... fully supported by the game

the problem was, many people had no way to find a large number of people to join up with and run the bgs. oQueue solved that issue, removing the main reason against premades

of course, there will always be the casuals, like yourself, that have zer0 interest in doing anything that would help their game play... like finding others to join with when going into a BG... and believe they have some whacked out right to demand everyone else be limited by their laziness

playing alongside players is playing as intended.

forcing players to play alongside bots, just to appease casuals, is not

edit:
answering here since i cannot post passed the 500 post limit, unlike some people:

And that feature was removed, and it'll be back when they can upgrade the system to allow them to match larger premades against each other. Until then, Daxxarri has kindly directed you to the other options available for large-group pvp.

really? show me the 40v40 rated bg... not available. they tried it, but the queue times were insane. war games? yea.. that's fun /eye-roll

if i form a group and decide to go in with 35 players (7 groups of 5), blizz can, and does, match groups with groups. of course, this isn't strict since there are many times when there just aren't 7 groups of 5 available... at which point, solos are matched up.

completely understandable.

of course the fact that those solos have no desire to win, work together, or are just bots doesn't mean my side should change... it means YOUR side should change.

oQueue is not the problem... and neither is blizz... the problem is players that have no interest in actually playing the bg, yet queue up expecting to get free honor for no real effort (bots & bads).

given time, even the bads would get oQueue... and would hop in vent... and would start to become... less bad. and the bgs would tend in a direction away from the bg-bot-hell we have now
Edited by Tinymasher on 12/3/2012 1:23 PM PST
100 Human Priest
17435
Wow, you really are full of yourself, aren't you? Do you really think that people who spend so much time trying to make a game as fair and fun as possible like seeing honest players rolled over by people who decide to just ignore a very simple and reasonable limit on premade size, and that the only reason they'd put a stop to it is if they were personally affected by it?

Well, that's the griefer mentality for you.

the ORIGINAL intent for BGs was to be able to join up with your guildies, up to 40 people, and enjoy the BGs. that's right... we all use to be able to queue up in raids and join AV as full premades... fully supported by the game
And that feature was removed, and it'll be back when they can upgrade the system to allow them to match larger premades against each other. Until then, Daxxarri has kindly directed you to the other options available for large-group pvp.
90 Human Paladin
7315
12/03/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Cylthia
Only if you completely ignore the OP of this very thread.

For the umpteenth time, there is precisely nothing in the OP regarding the permissibility of premades themselves. It is entirely about them making it no longer possible to automate queuing with addons. The sooner you can realize this difference, the sooner you can wrap up this ridiculous charade.

12/03/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Cylthia
Bull. You really do sound desperate here. Get this through your head: you can not play semantic games with the game's rules and expect them to be effective.

What rule? The best you can throw at me is "we don't encourage it" and "it is no longer possible to automate queuing". Your repeated attempts to characterize these statements as proof of a "rule" against premades are laughable. No such rule exists, and in fact I just quoted you a blue post which says that nearly verbatim.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4422092414#15

premade groups are not against our policies.


12/03/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Cylthia
Blizzard should not have to fix every tiny little verbal loophole you think you can find in their statements about premades. They think they are bad for the game. They think they are unfair for the players on the other team. That is simply all there is to it. Maybe you'll get banned and maybe you won't, but you've got no business claiming that what you're doing is anything but abusive.

"They think they are bad for the game."

Ok? So? The fact that you think that statement equates to there being a rule in existence which prohibits premades illustrates just how poor your grasp of the meaning of the words "rule" and "cheating" is (or how intellectually dishonest you're willing to be to further an argument, I'm really not sure which it is).

They probably think graveyard farming is bad for the game. Is graveyard farming against the rules?

They probably think repeated corpse camping for the sole purpose of causing someone grief is bad for the game. Is it against the rules?

Etc.

Learn what the word "rule" actually means. Learn what the word "cheating" actually means. Holy hell.
Edited by Karsi on 12/3/2012 10:22 AM PST
90 Orc Shaman
2380
I never have really understood the type of people that just blindly follow legislature...
Never said premades were against TOS. What this addon does is entirely different so I suggest you stop trying to stop suggesting anyone said premades are bad . They aren't. Would people normally be able to sync que times like this? No. That is the bottom line. Even if people were coordinated on vent, their are many variables such as ping, latency, response time to consider. Therefore this addon automates the game and allows an unintended oversight to be exploited by the users of the addon, grouping them together (contrary to the whole idea of "random bgs"
As I said before, go play rated/war games if you want to premade. Or don't complain when usage of this addon skyrockets and you might actually (shudder) have to face other premades.

All your post shows is that you are a baby-man, who is too chicken to leave RBGs to RNG. (Intended feature) 5 man Group Premade is intended for friends. Not 40 + random people on Vent. Go cry a river, baddie.
Edited by Varun on 12/3/2012 10:42 AM PST
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