Battleground Queues and Addons

90 Human Hunter
8095
I think it's pretty obvious from this statement that many, many, many more people will turn to botting to earn their honor. Regardless of what this change is supposed to do for the game, frustrations with being forced into 5 man teams or solo queues into countless bot-ridden battlegrounds, combined with the severe lack of any real fix to the botting issue that has plagued your game for months now, or any real consequence to a number of notorious botters for that matter, is going to turn a lot of players from the ones who used to report, to the ones who simply join in given the obvious benefits.

I'm stunned that this change has happened at all, and I for one won't be queuing anymore BGs without the guarantee that a large number of my teammates will be in with me. Regardless of what others might say about how Oqueue has "spoiled" players with its function of 15 man premades versus pugs or other premades within non-rated BGs, the fact remains that the viability of gearing in the current solo/5 man Battleground System is completely and utterly non-existent. It directly rewards botting in general, it caters towards the mass automation of tasks which were already monotonous to begin with, and it slaps honest players across the face for even daring to think that the design team had any intentions of providing a meaningful, thought-out solution to the issues that have plagued this PvP system for months now.

Those in charge of this decision should be utterly ashamed of themselves, and those in charge of maintaining security in this game should feel embarrassed for their failure to stop the one bot that caused this mess in the first place. You want to provide your players with a meaningful solution? Start by actually doing something about HonorBuddy. You know it's the problem, your players know it's the problem, and there's literally no excuse for it anymore. You went to battle with Glider and won. You went to war against Pirox and won that as well. Now it's time to actually do something about the elephant in the room that's been mocking your security team for months now. The ball's in your court, Blizzard. You've already shown that you can make the wrong decisions. Now show you can make the right ones as well.
Edited by Macloud on 11/30/2012 12:54 PM PST
100 Human Warrior
17815
11/30/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Daxxarri
We understand that players want to enjoy coordinated team play, and we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience. Players can continue to use Addons to queue for Rated Battlegrounds as well.

You are so utterly clueless with respect to your PvP demographic.

It is precisely BECAUSE there is already a competitive option (i.e. RBGs, Arenas) that you should have casually-oriented, mass PvP content. People who partake in the behavior you're describing aren't interested in "coordinated team play" ... they want to roll into BGs with a big group of friends ... you know, the kind of thing MMOs used to be great at facilitating before you started making them smaller and smaller. Those people have a different definition of fun.

This reminds me of your 10 man raiding blunder. Your niche towards the end of WotLK was a raiding progression path that was truly for casual, family oriented guilds. You essentially replicated the 25 man setting in a 10 man environment with your short-sighted change. Take a look at your own guild recruitment forum; both progression formats adopt the same recruitment approach, manage their roster in a similar format, offer similar environments in terms of performance expectations etc. In other words, you obliterated something that was satisfying a separate market for something where there is significant market overlap. It's just amazing...
90 Troll Priest
14310
@Macloud:

I never used any addons to queue with groups for random BGs. With this change, I will end up doing far more of them.

I have no plans to turn to botting for my honor, either. The sense of entitlement here is disturbing.

"They broke my addon so I'm going to threaten them with botting!"

Makes sense.
Edited by Lothrik on 11/30/2012 12:55 PM PST
92 Tauren Death Knight
8180
1. Bots overrun BGs
2. Blizzard does absolutely nothing about them
3. A lone player creates an addon which gives people a way to lessen the effect of bots in their BGs
4. Blizzard intentionally breaks the addon and continues to do nothing about bots

Pathetic.

just about sums it up

quality
90 Worgen Druid
10065
I didn't know there were 15 or 40 man RBGs. When was this added?
92 Tauren Death Knight
8180
11/30/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Lothrik
You're completely delusional if you think your addon was "fair" in any shape or form to the people you did random BGs against.

the point is to get everyone using the same addon... and judging by the reception, that wouldn't be a problem
90 Undead Mage
DOM
15730
I'm glad if this will reduce the frequency at which I solo queue and see 8 / 10 people on the opposing team all in the same guild. (To be fair, being in a PUG that beats an opposing pre-made is one of the most rewarding PvP experiences, IMO.)

I've read posts today "I went into IoC and there were 20-30 bots there". I feel very fortunate; having played literally thousands of BGs I've never been in on with 50-75% bots as I often see described on these forms. 2 out of 10, while still unacceptable, is the worst I have ever seen.

I tried out Rath strat 40-man premades for a while, it was effective in farming honor but not fun for even a second. Rath strat leaders would boast 95%+ win rates over vent, which to me doesn't sound like a game that's fun playing for either side.

I hope this change fosters of community of Wargamers that truly want to do 15v15 and 40v40, which is what a lot of the patch nay-sayers claim to want. It would be a great thing for WoW PVP if that community grew up around this.

I worked my way to Battlemaster almost exclusively through solo queuing and I enjoyed it; it's unfortunate that most people don't have as much fun as I have had in the early stages of the PvP gear-up cycle.
Edited by Mikeular on 11/30/2012 1:00 PM PST
90 Human Hunter
8095
@Macloud:

I never used any addons to queue with groups for random BGs. With this change, I will end up doing far more of them.

I have no plans to turn to botting for my honor, either. The sense of entitlement here is disturbing.


Neither will I. But as others have stated, this change (regardless of its intent to "stop" the bots), is actually going to prove even more helpful towards those who wish to continue botting.

There's no sense of entitlement here other than one aimed towards my right to play the game with teammates/friends I've made versus strangers/bots who have no intention of playing the battlegrounds as they were intended. And regardless of what you might say about that ability having always been there in 5 mans, it's become pretty obvious that even 5 man teams can't/won't do much to combat a queued BG roster that can and has multiple times now, included 5 or even 10+ more script controlled bots. I would think even someone opposed to Oqueue would see that.
Edited by Macloud on 11/30/2012 1:02 PM PST
90 Troll Priest
14310
You're completely delusional if you think your addon was "fair" in any shape or form to the people you did random BGs against.

the point is to get everyone using the same addon... and judging by the reception, that wouldn't be a problem


Addons should not be mandatory to enjoy the game. It would never happen, and before this change all it did was punish the players that didn't use them. Heavily.


@Macloud:

I never used any addons to queue with groups for random BGs. With this change, I will end up doing far more of them.

I have no plans to turn to botting for my honor, either. The sense of entitlement here is disturbing.


Neither will I. But as others have stated, this change (regardless of its intent to "stop" the bots), is actually going to prove even more helpful towards those who wish to continue botting.

There's no sense of entitlement here other than one aimed towards my right t play the game with teammates/friends I've made versus strangers/bots who have no intention of playing the battlegrounds as they were intended. I would think even someone opposed to Oqueue would see that.


Botting and this are two separate issues. Anyone that actually used that addon was just as bad as the people that bot. Both provide an extremely poor experience for everyone involved.
Edited by Lothrik on 11/30/2012 1:00 PM PST
11/30/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Macloud
Those in charge of this decision should be utterly ashamed of themselves, and those in charge of maintaining security in this game should feel embarrassed for their failure to stop the one bot that caused this mess in the first place.

Well said.

Blizzard has decided to follow the ignorant squealing of the whiners, and somehow I'm not surprised. Thanks for ruining once of the few chances we had to clean up BG's. Makes me wonder if Blizz's hope is to ruin PvP once and for all. Certainly seems so :D
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
11/30/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Lothrik
Addons should not be mandatory to enjoy the game. It would never happen, and before this change all it did was punish the players that didn't use them. Heavily.


A lot of addons border on mandatory for raiding, or were in the past. Ever tried using default unit frames to heal a raid pre-Cata? Raid frames, threat meters... those were mandatory addons to raid and it took Blizzard years to acknowledge they needed to be in the game.
42 Human Warlock
12145
So with this change, are we now promoting players to bot and play by themselves?

I think it's pretty obvious from this statement that many, many, many more people will turn to botting to earn their honor

Hell yeah. I want in on some of that free honour! Doesn't seem like Blizzard is doing anything about it anyways, so why not jump on the bandwagon? Screw legitimate play and making friends and enjoying the game!
90 Troll Priest
14310
Addons should not be mandatory to enjoy the game. It would never happen, and before this change all it did was punish the players that didn't use them. Heavily.


A lot of addons border on mandatory for raiding, or were in the past. Ever tried using default unit frames to heal a raid pre-Cata? Raid frames, threat meters... those were mandatory addons to raid and it took Blizzard years to acknowledge they needed to be in the game.


Poor example. Raid frames do not fundamentally change what raiding is. Forcing people into organized groups fundamentally changes what random BGs are.

Edit: Not that I'm against that. I would actually quite enjoy organized, non-rated BGs for honor. The problem is, that's not what the word "random" means.
Edited by Lothrik on 11/30/2012 1:03 PM PST
90 Human Warrior
0
11/30/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Lothrik

How is it "free?"
The difference is communication. If your strategy is still herp derp, it will be no different than any other random group. What this change does is DISABLE STRATEGY.


Would you ask a raiding guild to "race" a random LFR group in Mogu'shan Vaults? See who can finish first?

Even with no communication whatsoever it's pretty obvious who would win, 9 out of 10 times.

You're completely delusional if you think your addon was "fair" in any shape or form to the people you did random BGs against.

Wrong analogy. You can premake an LFR group, but you can't premake an AV anymore. See the difference?
90 Troll Priest
14310


Would you ask a raiding guild to "race" a random LFR group in Mogu'shan Vaults? See who can finish first?

Even with no communication whatsoever it's pretty obvious who would win, 9 out of 10 times.

You're completely delusional if you think your addon was "fair" in any shape or form to the people you did random BGs against.

Wrong analogy. You can premake an LFR group, but you can't premake an AV anymore. See the difference?


Yeah, I do. Apparently you don't.

Do you see raid bosses posting on the forum complaining about how unfair it is that premade groups can do LFR against them?
90 Human Warrior
0
11/30/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Lothrik
Addons should not be mandatory to enjoy the game.
Then you should be openly FOR queuing as a 40m raid w/o requiring an addon.
90 Troll Priest
14310
11/30/2012 01:09 PMPosted by Buckybadger
Addons should not be mandatory to enjoy the game.
Then you should be openly FOR queuing as a 40m raid w/o requiring an addon.


I am, I actually posted something along those lines earlier. 40M premades are perfectly fine in my book, as long as they're going against other 40M premades.
90 Human Warrior
0
Yeah, I do. Apparently you don't.

Do you see raid bosses posting on the forum complaining about how unfair it is that premade groups can do LFR against them?

Again, what you are advocating is DISABLING STRATEGY.

A well formed raid group will still lose against a team of competent randoms who are able to follow direction. People that like to be special snowflakes and not contribue to the team disgust me. That is what you are advocating - a team full of snowflakes, and making it harder for them to NOT be snowflakes.
90 Human Hunter
8095
11/30/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Lothrik

the point is to get everyone using the same addon... and judging by the reception, that wouldn't be a problem


Addons should not be mandatory to enjoy the game. It would never happen, and before this change all it did was punish the players that didn't use them. Heavily.




Neither will I. But as others have stated, this change (regardless of its intent to "stop" the bots), is actually going to prove even more helpful towards those who wish to continue botting.

There's no sense of entitlement here other than one aimed towards my right t play the game with teammates/friends I've made versus strangers/bots who have no intention of playing the battlegrounds as they were intended. I would think even someone opposed to Oqueue would see that.


Botting and this are two separate issues. Anyone that actually used that addon was just as bad as the people that bot. Both provide an extremely poor experience for everyone involved.


You're forgetting that Tiny and other users of Oqueue have time and time again mentioned that spreading Oqueue was an equal goal. You're entitled to your opinion that premades in non-rated BGs might be a blight upon the PvP community, but there is a vast difference between queuing random premades into BGs, and spreading the word about those same premades within those same BGs.

Despite all the threads/complaints by Alliance/Horde players about facing OQ premades, the fact remains that each and every OQ leader made it a mission to spread the addon's usage and location across all of their games. A number of PUGs read their chats and joined in, and an equal number of players didn't. This happened on both factions, and a number of us made it a mission to see to it that each faction caught wind of the community that Oqueue was trying to build.

That being said, while I can understand your desire to combat an addon you deem "unfair" to the teams who might have been "farmed" in the wake of Oqueue's popularity spike, I cannot understand how you can remain blind to the fact that the addon was specifically designed to give all players an equal opportunity to rid their casual PvP experience of bots and other unorganized, uncooperative players.
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