Battleground Queues and Addons

90 Human Warrior
15040
11/30/2012 01:10 PMPosted by Lothrik
I am, I actually posted something along those lines earlier. 40M premades are perfectly fine in my book, as long as they're going against other 40M premades.


Do you realize the ridiculousness of that statement?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8885
11/30/2012 12:09 PMPosted by Peôn
Boo, boo i say. Back to the countdown Qs : D


Ok we all know now they did target oQ and other add-ons like it. They have also suspended a few people for doing 1,2,3 que in groups of more then 5. they got suspended for 3 hours for doing premades as exploits as blizzard called. So i dont think any one should try farming in larger then 5 mans if you dont want your account to get suspended/banned. Now lets work on oQ and get it working with out error messages so we can do rbgs and 5mans with it.
Edited by Ironmana on 11/30/2012 1:17 PM PST
90 Troll Priest
14310
@Macloud:

I'm not against what it fundamentally does. What premades are at the core is perfectly fine to me, but not against a random, disorganized group. If you want a premade you should be in a queue exclusively against premades. It should be handled completely in-game by Blizzard's UI, not a spattering of addons.

I am, I actually posted something along those lines earlier. 40M premades are perfectly fine in my book, as long as they're going against other 40M premades.


Do you realize the ridiculousness of that statement?


It's no more ridiculous than queuing for AV with 1-2 friends and going up against a 40M premade only to get steamrolled.
Edited by Lothrik on 11/30/2012 1:19 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8885
Blizzard please add a little more to wargames by giving us a Que for them against random other premades with out any type of rewards/raiting system.
90 Troll Druid
9040
[quote]
Can't or won't? The bot problem is beyond out of control, they know it, and have yet to address it in any way whatsoever this expansion.


You mean other than the ongoing case they have in German courts against the maker of the bot everyone is using?

Yeah, just because you don't see all of the bots disappearing all at once, doesn't mean they aren't doing anything about it.


Doing a ban wave every 18 months or taking a company to court isn't stopping bots. If they actively banned them every BG wouldn't be packed with them. The punishment for botting is so unlikely and so infrequent that botters have no fear of doing it 24/7 for months on end.
90 Human Warrior
15040


Do you realize the ridiculousness of that statement?


It's no more ridiculous than queuing for AV with 1-2 friends and going up against a 40M premade only to get steamrolled.

So in other words, no. No you do not see the ridiculousness of your statement. Let me ask you and hope you can connect the dots, "Do you think that a 40m raid group will EVER find a queue for another 40 man?"
Edited by Buckybadger on 11/30/2012 1:25 PM PST
90 Troll Priest
14310


It's no more ridiculous than queuing for AV with 1-2 friends and going up against a 40M premade only to get steamrolled.

So in other words, no. No you do not see the ridiculousness of your statement. Let me ask you Barney-style and hope you can connect the dots, "Do you think that a 40m raid group will EVER find a queue for another 40 man?"


If the queue times are too long for them, maybe they shouldn't queue as a 40M premade. I'll never advocate the alternative you're trying to suggest here, so you might as well stop trying to convince me.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8885
will raid groups also be limited to entering an instance with no more then 5, the remaining raid members being drawn from an LFR style queue?

after all, it is unfair to those that do not belong to a raiding guild as they are unable to join top end raiding groups.

after all... it's about being 'fair'

and in the spirit of being 'fair'... how can it be fair if you have enchants and top end weapons, yet i don't? will all gear be replaced with the same gear as people enter the BGs?


I dont see how pve has anything to do with pvp personally. It used to be unfair for a full raid group to enter LFR and then trade drops from bosses. So blizzard fixed that by making every one have a chance at loot. This is much like reg bg in the sence that its not a full premade. After ur done gearing you can move to real raid premades and heroics in the pve. Once your done farming ur honor you can move on to pvp in rbgs and wargames as premades. And I dont see your point about gear as we all know gear isnt as important as skills. I would say the gear isnt as important as 15 people all doing the same strat and working together.
90 Tauren Death Knight
7240
11/30/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Lothrik
Addons should not be mandatory to enjoy the game. It would never happen, and before this change all it did was punish the players that didn't use them. Heavily.

if you expect to join a rated bg team, you better believe you'll be required to have some addons.

casuals need to get a grip and realize the world doesn't cater to them (or shouldn't). pushing to the lowest common denominator instead of inspiring to higher standards is a sure fire way to increase the bads & bots... as evident in the battlegrounds today
90 Human Hunter
8095
@Macloud:

I'm not against what it fundamentally does. What premades are at the core is perfectly fine to me, but not against a random, disorganized group. If you want a premade you should be in a queue exclusively against premades. It should be handled completely in-game by Blizzard's UI, not a spattering of addons.



Do you realize the ridiculousness of that statement?


It's no less ridiculous than queuing for AV with 1-2 friends and going up against a 40M premade only to get steamrolled.


I think everyone would agree that they would prefer Blizzard's UI to handle a balanced BG system. I personally wouldn't argue for more addons when I can maintain a fun experience with less. Rehardless of that, the fact remains that Blizzard's UI hasn't, and doesn't appear to be doing that anytime soon. Tiny's addon provided the PvP experience that Blizzard's UI failed to do, and that is just one of the reasons why so many people are so upset about its broken state.

Though I'll agree with you that premade vs. premade is infinitely more entertaining and infinitely more exciting in every aspect, I can't and won't agree with you on your stance that players should be pigeon-holed into queuing with 5 or less people with the combined risk that (in the current state of the PvP scene) the other remaining portion of their team will be filled with stupidity or worse, scripted bots. This game has evolved, and Blizzard's UI needs to evolve along with it. Many people saw Oqueue as that evolution, and when something like that is stripped, you can easily understand where the frustration lies.
90 Human Priest
16785


So in other words, no. No you do not see the ridiculousness of your statement. Let me ask you Barney-style and hope you can connect the dots, "Do you think that a 40m raid group will EVER find a queue for another 40 man?"


If the queue times are too long for them, maybe they shouldn't queue as a 40M premade. I'll never advocate the alternative you're trying to suggest here, so you might as well stop trying to convince me.
Exactly. Twink queues are long and in some cases never pop at all. Does that mean that they should be allowed in leveing battlegrounds?

You can not always have everything you want, in game or out of it. You have many options for large-group pvp. Just because they aren't exactly the options you want doesn't mean that the rules for unrated battlegrounds should not apply to you.
Edited by Cylthia on 11/30/2012 1:31 PM PST
90 Troll Priest
14310
11/30/2012 01:26 PMPosted by Tinymasher
Addons should not be mandatory to enjoy the game. It would never happen, and before this change all it did was punish the players that didn't use them. Heavily.

if you expect to join a rated bg team, you better believe you'll be required to have some addons.

casuals need to get a grip and realize the world doesn't cater to them (or shouldn't). pushing to the lowest common denominator instead of inspiring to higher standards is a sure fire way to increase the bads & bots... as evident in the battlegrounds today


You obviously missed the point of the post you quoted. The addons in question are detrimental to players that don't use them, in the same sense that bots are detrimental to players that don't use them. The answer is not for everyone to start botting and using obnoxious addons.
Add a "Premade Queue" option in addition to Single and Group Queue.

Clicking on Premade Queue will queue you, our your group, against other raids of up to 15 in size.
90 Human Warrior
15040
I'm not trying to convince you that you should do premades. What I'm trying to do is show you that disabling them is not productive and is a poor choice. It is telling groups to NOT coordinate and to herp derp everything - not promoting players to get better, think, or strive to learn. You don't have to want to do these things, but taking away any and all initiative to better yourself is a bad design choice.
90 Human Priest
16785
Add a "Premade Queue" option in addition to Single and Group Queue.

Clicking on Premade Queue will queue you, our your group, against other raids of up to 15 in size.
That's the long term plan, apparently, but it seems from Ghostcrawler's past comments on the subject that it is not as easy to accomplish as it sounds.
90 Troll Priest
14310
Exactly. Twink queues are long and in some cases never pop at all. Does that mean that they should be allowed in leveing battlegrounds?

You can not always have everything you want, in game or out of it. You have many options for large-group pvp. Just because they exactly the options you want doesn't mean that the rules for unrated battlegrounds should not apply to you.


Agree with this completely. If twinks can deal with long queue times for their BGs, you can deal with long queue times for your 40M premade AV.
90 Blood Elf Warlock
7565
It's no less ridiculous than queuing for AV with 1-2 friends and going up against a 40M premade only to get steamrolled.


Then give us the option to have Premade queueing against other premade groups like old AV and old AB and old EoTS

like we had back in early TBC

Add a "Premade Queue" option in addition to Single and Group Queue.

Clicking on Premade Queue will queue you, our your group, against other raids of up to 15 in size.


/agree
Edited by Dotwizzix on 11/30/2012 1:35 PM PST
90 Troll Priest
14310
11/30/2012 01:33 PMPosted by Dotwizzix
It's no less ridiculous than queuing for AV with 1-2 friends and going up against a 40M premade only to get steamrolled.


Then give us the option to have Premade queueing against other premade groups like old AV and old AB and old EoTS

like we had back in early TBC


I agree with this. Sure hope somebody at Blizzard is reading this thread and taking notes..
Edited by Lothrik on 11/30/2012 1:35 PM PST
90 Human Warrior
15040
11/30/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Lothrik
Agree with this completely. If twinks can deal with long queue times for their BGs, you can deal with long queue times for your 40M premade AV.

Huge difference in forming a group of singleton twinks vs finding already formed groups. One is (wait a while), the other is (will never pop).
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9630
OQ is not a paid addon. OQ is an addon anybody can (well, could) use to help organize PVP play and cut down on the number of botters involved in their side of the battleground.

OQ was not secreted away to some hidden link on the internet that only a privileged few were given access to. Everyone equally has (had) a chance to join up with the OQ community and get in on games where they knew they weren't going to have to endure four or five botters ruining their games.

If you gave the entire playerbase the option to be able to queue more than 5 people at a time casually (and don't go into the 'that's what rated battlegrounds are for' argument, this is something else entirely) in the hopes of eliminating botting, the playerbase as a whole would gleefully run for this option and use it to the fullest extent.

Players will continue to find their way around dealing with the botters. That won't change. Countdown queues will continue, less effective though they may be. What has changed, however, is the perception the (sizable) chunk of the PVP community that cares about this has about Blizzard's policies on the matter... and I think it's a very negative, depressing perception with the current input from the blues/the dev team as a whole (up to this point).

The whole affair is really saddening.
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