how much is too much stamina

90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
12/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Salloreon
I hit around 710-730k stam as well raid buffed,


You should probably put that in bug report that Fort+Kings is multiplying your stamina by like 36
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
12/01/2012 06:50 PMPosted by Runtime
Im curious where you are getting these stat weights from.

I ran the numbers about a month ago. I can dig them up if you're interested, but very loosely it boils down to "if you consistently get the minimum shield and have over approximately a hundred percent mastery unbuffed, stamina will give you more effective mitigation than mastery."

There are a couple caveats.

First, you need to be CONSISTENTLY getting the minimum shield for this to work - which means it's no good for 25m raids, or even LFR. It's 10m normals only. Second, you need to not be overhealing, because the whole reason it works AT ALL is because outside of one or two fights healing taken is the same thing as damage mitigated in the long run. I work with my healers, and they only top me off to about 3/4s of maximum.

In MV compared to a mastery build, it wins on dogs, has both upsides and downsides on feng, loses on gara'jal, mostly wins on spirit kings due to utility improvements, wins heavily on elegon, and loses badly on will.

I hit around 710-730k stam as well raid buffed, but I would never be derpy enough to think that stamina is a mitigation stat to the point where I would take it over mastery/dodge/parry ever.

How exactly you are seeing the "minimum" shield amount all the time is interesting, maybe taunt and tank the boss so you actually take damage will help.

You're welcome to disagree with me. You're welcome to question my data - I'd appreciate it.

But I'm not a blithering idiot, and I resent your implication that I am one.

12/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Salloreon
Maybe once you get into HoF and Terrace that isn't lfr you'll see what I mean.

I'm aware they hit harder. Given that I have the dubious honor of raid leading for a guild that can't move out of the fire, I haven't had the option to see exactly how much harder. If the bosses suddenly start hitting for twice as much as they do in MV, then yeah, I'll need to change what I'm doing. Until that point, this setup is close enough to on par with a mastery build that I feel the utility benefits outweigh the slight mitigation loss.

12/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Salloreon
Stacking stam past the point where you and your healers are comfortable with is just silly and shows that you know very little about dk tanking.

No, it shows that I'm using a different gearing strategy for the fights I'm facing than you are.

I'm going to dig up the math on this stuff again. Sigh.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8240
i feel like my thread has been hijacked lol
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90 Tauren Druid
0
12/01/2012 10:43 PMPosted by Egoor
i feel like my thread has been hijacked lol

Lol. At least you got your answer pretty early on :).

12/01/2012 10:22 PMPosted by Krinu
I ran the numbers about a month ago. I can dig them up if you're interested, but very loosely it boils down to "if you consistently get the minimum shield and have over approximately a hundred percent mastery unbuffed, stamina will give you more effective mitigation than mastery."


Out of curiosity, what budgets are you using for the stats? I can get that result for 1.5stam:1mastery (the old gem budget), but I don't see it for the new 1.5:2 gem budget.
Edited by Ahanss on 12/1/2012 10:47 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
That's not a budgeted thing, that's literally point for point - the reason being that I did all this when I was trying to figure out whether or not stamina gems were worth using for my JC gems, because the JC gems don't have the 2x secondary bonus. Neither do trinkets, for that matter - only gems.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
I just dug up the old thread. Was done with lower health and higher mastery than I was using. So, duh, of course what I was doing would favor it more towards mastery.

It's funny that they're close enough even with huge health (730k) and terrible mastery (5k) that they're near identical at 1.5:1 for heal+shield. Assuming minimum heal of course, but if that's happening often enough, why not go for it?
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90 Human Paladin
10330
12/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Salloreon
I hit around 710-730k stam as well raid buffed


Interestingly enough, if you can somehow get 700,000 stamina, and thus ~8million health, Stamina would probably be your go-to best mitigation stat.

Simply because your healers could literally ignore you for half the fight before it'd matter.

So, to answer the title of this thread:

No stamina is too much stamina. Eventually you'll trivialize the damage intake.

...Eventually.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12995
lol, wow, sorry guys, major typo on my part, meant to say 710-730k health, lol.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
12/02/2012 05:19 AMPosted by Salloreon
lol, wow, sorry guys, major typo on my part, meant to say 710-730k health, lol.

We figured :D

It's funnier assuming you meant 710-730k stamina, though.

Hmm. Now I need to go make an image macro. BRB.
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90 Human Death Knight
12620
Oh, for msv 10 normal, sure, do whatever the hell you want.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
*shrug*

It's working in HoF, at least so far. I'm worried about the last boss, though, I hear she hits kind of hard.
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64 Draenei Death Knight
10235
12/03/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Krinu
It's working in HoF, at least so far. I'm worried about the last boss, though, I hear she hits kind of hard.


Eh, not really. The only part of the fight that gets real iffy is the begining of phase 2 and you should have cds to cover for that, and its really the only phase where healers really have to spend a lot of mana. From what I understand, our healers would spend most of their mana in the begining of phase 2 and once the first add was trapped, they were able to regen most of their mana by the end of the phase.

The fight that is really tank damage heavy is wind lord after all the adds die.

And yes, I am talking about 10 man.
Edited by Runtime on 12/3/2012 1:54 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
*nod*

We didn't put any attempts in on wind lord last night, so I guess I'll find out on wednesday.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12995
Honestly, you're going to want to go with a mastery set up for wind lord.
Your stam stacking may work, but you'll make life on your healers much easier if you've got some mastery working for you, you will almost never get to utilize that minimum blood shield that your playstyle almost hinges on.

Best of luck with it, if your raid has problems not standing in bad stuff like you said, wind lord will be interesting for you guys, lots of bad stuff that you shouldn't stand in.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Honestly, you're going to want to go with a mastery set up for wind lord.
Your stam stacking may work, but you'll make life on your healers much easier if you've got some mastery working for you, you will almost never get to utilize that minimum blood shield that your playstyle almost hinges on.

No, "almost" about it, it DOES hinge on it for optimal mana efficiency for my healers. Then again, progression guilds have been using stamina-heavy builds to compensate for weak gear for a while, so it's likely doable anyway.
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90 Undead Death Knight
5445
Honestly, you're going to want to go with a mastery set up for wind lord.
Your stam stacking may work, but you'll make life on your healers much easier if you've got some mastery working for you, you will almost never get to utilize that minimum blood shield that your playstyle almost hinges on.

No, "almost" about it, it DOES hinge on it for optimal mana efficiency for my healers. Then again, progression guilds have been using stamina-heavy builds to compensate for weak gear for a while, so it's likely doable anyway.


After reading the thread I lile the stam build idea, but you might want to double check your dodge/parry ratio...
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64 Draenei Death Knight
10235


After reading the thread I lile the stam build idea, but you might want to double check your dodge/parry ratio...


Getting a correct dodge parry ratio on your gear provides so little mitigation increase that its the absolute last thing you do to your gear. If you are going to exp, and hit like I and it appears krinu does, then you likely havent made it to the point where you could even worry about that.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
12/04/2012 09:28 PMPosted by Runtime
Getting a correct dodge parry ratio on your gear provides so little mitigation increase that its the absolute last thing you do to your gear. If you are going to exp, and hit like I and it appears krinu does, then you likely havent made it to the point where you could even worry about that.

This. My reforge priority is, roughly:

1. If it doesn't have mastery, convert the biggest rating to mastery.
2. If it has mastery, convert the avoidance stat to accuracy.
3. If it has mastery and accuracy, check which accuracy stat I need more and consider converting, otherwise leave it be.

When I finish this week's LFR I'll probably redo my reforges, it's been a while since I seriously examined them.
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