Time to buff shadow priest?

90 Troll Priest
14700
Anything that brings us back to a time where we have less control over our DPS is a bad move. Cata's orb mechanics were !@#$. Waiting around 20s into a lust with no orb proc is not fun.
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100 Undead Priest
10000

While I agree shadow is a middle of the road DPS at the moment, I never made a statement about agreeing or disagreeing with you in my original shot out. You assumed disagreed. By the way, comparing our dps to outliner dps parses from Fire Mages is nothing to write about.


I didn't compare our DPS to Fire Mages. I compared our DPS to 4 classes that were beating us by 15% and not just 1 class. I did not include the other classes who were still beating us, though not to such a large degree. And this is our best fight in the instance to boot. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when we're 2nd to last on 4 of 6 fights in the instance that we can be compared to almost anyone in a poor light.
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90 Undead Priest
7995
Shadow orb generation is too spotty. We have no dps cooldown, mobility sucks and survive ability has gone down recently.

We need another way to generate orbs, and mind spike shouldnt consume the dots imo.

In addition good mechanics would be mindflay cast lowering mind blast cd.

And please either remove the cd of Psychic Horror or make itnot cost orbs.

No other class has to sacrifice dps for a 5 second stun on a 45 second cd.

Also, fix last talent tier. it sucks.
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90 Goblin Priest
0
I don't think the sims are anywhere close.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/100/7/30/p75/#7vvvv

Shadow Priest is in a good spot right now.


Keep in mind that raidbots is only relevant for the top players, as it takes only the top parses from WoL.

Thing is...top parses in WoL usually means someone found a gimmick (typically the way their class can handle the encounter) and/or their raid is doing everything they can to help them push a top parse.

So raidbots could for all we know be calculating how classes rank up against each other when say 25 of the spriest parses had everything handed to them in their raids while the other spriests didn't have that so the average dps calculated gets messed up.

The same could go for say 100 warlocks all getting everything handed to them in a raid while doing any gimmick (if available) they can to top the WoL charts. Raidbots just takes those parses and throws them up and everyone can QQ how warlocks are OP when in reality only 100 locks in the world found the gimmick (if there was one in the encounter) and were able to exploit it while having their raid hand all CDs to them.
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100 Goblin Priest
18505
alot of the people saying that it is fine have hardly any raid experience outside Vaults on normal of course it's going to be fine. Once you get into HoF you will see yourself at the bottom of dps charts left and right. It's only more obvious during certain single target encounters that have no small adds to cheese ToF.

Anyways a fair comparison is towards the other hybrids; elementals, boomkins. It's the hybrid tax all over again for the situational utility we bring. Piss poor design imo, we are dps and should be equivalent. Our dots do crap damage in the grand scheme of things, affli locks dots crush ours in an almost even comparison. We have no burst cds ala Archangel give me a break with fiend its nice and all but throw us a bone and seriously who takes PI in that tree as a spriest its the most inferior talent by far in that level. Our single target damage really needs to be looked at and the gimmick of certain encounters proping up our dps is a really false hope.

Our heaviest hitter DP is on an artifical 24 sec cd. Mind Blast really needs to scale with haste, mind flay could also use a small dmg buff, and dots needs to have a higher damage ratio.
Edited by Sleeprs on 12/5/2012 7:39 PM PST
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100 Undead Priest
10000
It's only more obvious during certain single target encounters that have no small adds to cheese ToF.


This is 1 of 2 main issues with Shadow damage. The uptime of Twist of Fate is exactly why Shadow Priests are stellar on Elegon and Will. It's why we can keep pace on Spirit Kings and Garajal.

The other is Multi DoT capabilities, where our DoT is equal across all mobs and not just a "main" target like Warlocks are set up or how Boomkin nukes on the main target improve their DoTs. This is why we are good on Stone Guard.

Once you get past those 5 fights, our DPS is horrendous. We are only competitive when we have good uptime on Twist of Fate and/or Multi DoT capabilities for extended periods of the encounter.
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42 Draenei Mage
550

I'm not talking about Affliction, I'm talking about Shadow.

I know. The reason I brought up Affliction is that they have a ton of synergy between their DoTs and other spells, and all it really means for them is that their DoTs are terrible on their own. It's a double edged sword.

Do agree that orbs are really boring right now.
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90 Goblin Priest
0
To be honest, the current Shadow design doesn't seem (to me at least) to be designed as a PvE spec. Shadow seems more designed as a PvP spec.

This is of course my opinion. For PvP it does seem to have the right amount of abilities (not too many and not to few) but for PvE it seems so bland...like eating pasta without tomato sauce. On the PvE side of things there really isn't much to the spec, especially with only one dps CD (but I guess you make up for it with VE which to be honest I just don't see drastic differences with it in PvE as opposed to PvP).

The new shadow orb system is half-assed, and there is absolutely no question about it. Only one way to get shadow orbs and that is every 8 secs + your latency/reaction time. RnG could come into play with Mind Blast procs but that is it. Only two spells use up orbs and one of them isn't used in PvE...Its a very sad system.
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90 Pandaren Priest
11125
Pop your dps cds at the start of the fight guys so they are up for the burst phase" .........."you got it coach
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90 Pandaren Priest
6370
12/05/2012 07:29 PMPosted by Sleeprs
alot of the people saying that it is fine have hardly any raid experience outside Vaults on normal of course it's going to be fine. Once you get into HoF you will see yourself at the bottom of dps charts left and right.


Shadow is fine. A buff to flay would be nice, but it isn't absolutely needed. Do I have enough experience to count?
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I played my Priest heavily last night, nearly level 87 and I don't like the way shadow priest plays now. I haven't played since cataclysm is new so a lot has changed, but I really dislike the feel of how it plays (mostly waiting for orbs). Luckily I primarily play as a healer for instances/raids, but I used to love pvp and pve as a shadow priest as well... now I hate it.

I obviously can't speak to the end game DPS matter.
Edited by Mishru on 12/6/2012 1:20 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
6370
12/06/2012 01:19 PMPosted by Mishru
I played my Priest heavily last night, nearly level 87 and I don't like the way shadow priest plays now. I haven't played since cataclysm is new so a lot has changed, but I really dislike the feel of how it plays (mostly waiting for orbs). Luckily I primarily play as a healer for instances/raids, but I used to love pvp and pve as a shadow priest as well... now I hate it.


Wait, you played in Cataclysm and you think NOW is a waiting for orb game?
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I don't recall needing to wait for orbs for any of my abilities back then, but I only used shadow priest in pve/questing to level 85 from 80 the first week it was out, then went holy for healing in instances and heroics. heroics didn't go too well so I switched to my DK and played that for a month or so, enjoyed being near the top of dps meters and tanking.. pvp was also really good.

I started in vanilla, but primarily played BC and WotLK.

edit: just looked it up, the shadow orb thing was added probably around the day i hit 85 :p

Finally, right now we are top notch healers(where I think priests should be), I don't see why people think we should be in the top 4 of DPS... not when rogues, mages, warlocks, hunters, have dps as their primary role... and if we are the best healer why should we be above shaman? then you have the DKs, warriors, maybe we should be around their DPS level... then druid and paladin, tank, heal dps? druids only.. ret pally is broke... but if you have the ability to fill 3 roles I dont think you should be the best at any.
Edited by Mishru on 12/6/2012 2:04 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
5195
I don't think they are in a good spot at all and if they were I would be playing mine because I love shadow. Just look at world of Logs they are the worst DPS in almost all single target fights.They basically never hit top10 so when you say they are in a good spot by underperformiing almost every spec in the game I'm not quite sure what your saying.Just compare shadow to destruction dps which is by far a warlocks lowest raid preforming dps spec right now and we beat shadow dps in almost all fights. Dont believe me check world of logs
Edited by Shivale on 12/17/2012 11:08 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
5195
Just because you raid heroics does not negate the fact that shadow is lower end dps right now.Any skill caped player with any given spec makes them more than viable in a raid.I'm sure your raid dps is great but a warlock or mage just as skill capped as you would smoke your dps and day of the week.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15615
12/05/2012 06:25 PMPosted by Alocin
Keep in mind that raidbots is only relevant for the top players, as it takes only the top parses from WoL.


I was under the impression it took a random sample of all parses...maybe I'm misinformed? It wouldn't make sense to display any kind of data or make any kind of statistical analysis if it wasn't a random sample.

12/06/2012 06:12 AMPosted by Alocin
..Its a very sad system.


I agree. Maybe mind spike has a 50% chance to give you an orb and psychic horror needs to be taken out of the orb system completely.

I especially hate our new mastery. It doesn't add any flavor like other classes' mastery does. It's such a bad stat that haste after the haste cap is better...and it's super boring.

Also they should bring back dark evangelism and dark archangel, give us some kind of cool down outside of shadow fiend.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13930
In my opinion, shadow is ok. Not the best, but it has been worse. I think one problem is that we rack up damage in multi dot situations, which makes our single target dps just ok. I wish that the margin between the two was smaller.

I also think we could have more mobility. Yes, we have our dots ticking on the target while we move, but it would be nice to have a CD like ele has or something like scorch to let us cast mindflay (or something) while we are running around.

As far as damage CDs.. I do think we need something to offset how long it can take to build orbs. In my opinion, give us a CD that works with our orbs. Even just some kind of button that lets us cast SWD as if we were in execute range every x minute. We could pop it at the start of a fight for burst and then save it for CD phases.

But.. I said all of that in the beta and it didn't change anything. And shadow is ok. I just worry because historically shadow has had scaling issues mid expansion (BC and Wrath more than Cata). I guess we'll see.
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84 Human Priest
4225
Shadow is quite boring pve wise imo but on the other hand the pvp is great
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90 Troll Priest
Rex
14195
people keep saying that shadow is good/great on multidot fights. we scale nowhere near as well as warlocks (or even moonkin) in these situations, unless for some reason (like heroic will CCing) your moonkin isn't able to freely use starfall.

also lol @ these people talking about hybrid taxes. if you're getting sat for progression because your dps is low (which will very likely happen next tier, especially on single target fights, unless every fight has huge amounts of mass dispel needed and a steady trickle of adds for shadow word death) they're not going to take you as disc. they're going to sit you for a warlock.

the only way they can get around this will be if they give shadow a strong cooldown so we can complete with 4shard dark soul's damage spikes, or make shadow's tier bonuses super godly like in t13 (but in this case, lootluck can totally screw you over - especially if you're raiding 10s. further complicated because we share tokens with warlocks, who will very likely have absurdly OP set bonuses if they're going to be a step up from this tier).
Edited by Snaxattax on 12/18/2012 10:03 AM PST
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I don't think the sims are anywhere close.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/100/7/30/p75/#7vvvv

Shadow Priest is in a good spot right now.


Once you get outside of MSV, our DPS shows a much different picture.

Let's go through Heart of Fear, shall we.

1st boss
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Imperial_Vizier_Zor%27lok/10H/100/7/30/p75/#7vvvv

Ranked 16th spec. Every class has a better dps spec than we do here with the exception of Druids whom we edge out by less than 225 dps.

2nd boss
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Blade_Lord_Ta%27yak/10H/100/7/30/p75/#7vvvv

Ranked 13th spec. Every class has a better dps spec than we do here with the exception of Shaman whom we edge out by .2 dps.

3rd boss
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Garalon/10H/100/7/30/p75/#7vvvv

Ranked 11th spec. This is our best performing fight in the entire instance. We perform better than Hunters, Monks, and Shaman, but still get beat by everything else.

4th boss
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Wind_Lord_Mel%27jarak/10H/100/7/30/p75/#7vvvv

Ranked 15th spec. Only Hunters perform worse on this encounter and by less than 2k dps.

5th boss
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Amber-Shaper_Un%27sok/10H/100/7/30/p75/#7vvvv

Ranked 14th spec. Once again only Hunters perform worse.

6th boss
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Grand_Empress_Shek%27zeer/10H/100/7/30/p75/#7vvvv

Most of the specs are not ranked yet. Either way we are sitting at 8 out of 13 specs as of the time I write this, which is still below average.

So for 4 out of 6 fights Priests are the 2nd worst class in DPS. At no point do we hit average on any fight in these parses. Other classes are doing a minimum of 15% more damage and at most 35% more damage than we are on any given fight.

To say Shadow Priests are in a good spot right now is, in my opinion, faulty. MSV is an instance with mechanics designed to empower Spriests DPS. Outside of this instance, the numbers do not lie - we are not in a good spot.


this ^^
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