Nightstalker and Versatility

90 Undead Rogue
6485
Does any one take these talents? Just interested to see if anyone does and why not any of the other more worthy looking choices in their tiers.

They both seem like they should simply be baseline and more interesting talents made in their place.

I could maybe see versatility being used now that Sanguinary Vein starts after using a finisher (rupture/CT), ignoring garotte for now. But anticipation and ST seem much better.
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90 Troll Rogue
13105
Versatility is a pretty good alternative to Anticipation. Both break the normal limitations on combo points, with Anticipation helping when sticking on the same target for awhile whereas Versatility helps when you do a lot of constant target switching. Anticipation on the whole is better to take but Versatility is a worthy alternative on certain encounters.

Shuriken Toss doesn't make sense being next to them though. It's really never worth taking over either of those two talents.

Edit: As for Nightstalker; I actually really like that talent for general purpose, but they made the mistake of putting it in a tier with something that actually helps dps quite a bit..... Movement speed buffs do help in raids but you don't walk around stealthed mid encounter so its a worthless raiding talent. A shame, really. The 25% extra damage doesn't really compete at all with an entire extra combo point generating ability.
Edited by Desukà on 12/4/2012 12:01 AM PST
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The speed bonus is good with the stealth glyph for questing and gathering, that's about it.

Subterfuge and Shadow Focus can both be useful with Cheap Shot and Sap and both change the way you play; Nightstalker is just a damage bonus. 3 seconds of an extra combo point on cp generators (a pseudo-Initiative) would be more useful/fun.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8295
12/03/2012 11:53 PMPosted by Desukà
Versatility is a pretty good alternative to Anticipation.

Actually, Anticipation kinda does what Versatility does too.
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90 Human Rogue
5250
I like Versatility in arena, lets me do random combo-point swaps for kidneys/eviscerates etc.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8875
12/03/2012 11:48 PMPosted by Vonzy
Does any one take these talents?


No

http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?c=4&w=&a=23
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The thing that really pisses me off about Versatility is that it's basically Blizz implicitly acknowledging that CPs stacking on Rogues are fine--that plus the fact that they do on Monks is a slap in the face. With no CD on Redirect, it's functionally the same as stacking on us, but we got this clunky mechanic in the way. Blizz keeps screwing up what to make active and what to make passive.
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90 Troll Rogue
13105
12/04/2012 04:32 AMPosted by Creepercat
Versatility is a pretty good alternative to Anticipation.

Actually, Anticipation kinda does what Versatility does too.


Not seeing how Anticipation helps me when I have to switch between a ton of different targets within a minute.

If you are referring to the fact that they both help you avoid wasting combo points.... that's the point. They both achieve the same goal but in different ways and for different situations. That's what makes them good choices.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8295


Actually, Anticipation kinda does what Versatility does too.


Not seeing how Anticipation helps me when I have to switch between a ton of different targets within a minute.

If you are referring to the fact that they both help you avoid wasting combo points.... that's the point. They both achieve the same goal but in different ways and for different situations. That's what makes them good choices.

1. Build 5 CP on a target and then build 5 more CP in anticipation charges
2. Use those 5 CP for Recup or SnD
3. Switch to new target and build 1 CP on them and spend said CP with Eviscerate/Envenom/Rupture
4. Your anticipation charges should refill you CPs on the new target to 5 CPs

A pseudo Redirect but still does the job.

I believe Timat has pointed that out since the early beta.
Edited by Creepercat on 12/5/2012 4:00 AM PST
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94 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Talents are moves that are fine for us to have, as long as there's an opportunity cost to us having them. But you can make reasonably strong arguments for several that they're only really there because Blizzard has no !@#$ing clue what to replace them with if they took them out...
Edited by Verelyse on 12/5/2012 4:33 AM PST
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90 Orc Rogue
12810
I use both Nightstalker and Versatility for PvE. I like Nightstalker for the speed boost while doing dailies. Versatility is nice for target switching.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8875
12/05/2012 04:33 AMPosted by Verelyse
Talents are moves that are fine for us to have, as long as there's an opportunity cost to us having them. But you can make reasonably strong arguments for several that they're only really there because Blizzard has no !@#$ing clue what to replace them with if they took them out...


Like Prey on the weak being a prime example.

12/05/2012 07:17 AMPosted by Tulok
I like Nightstalker for the speed boost while doing dailies


I dont get this....I just mount up between mobs that are far apart, if they arent I just BoS towards the next.

I dont think a relatively small in stealth speed boost is that grand.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
7280
Nightstalker is terrible on every level. ST is great for sub who doesn't have cp issues like assas.
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100 Troll Rogue
21835
12/05/2012 07:17 AMPosted by Tulok
I use both Nightstalker and Versatility for PvE. I like Nightstalker for the speed boost while doing dailies. Versatility is nice for target switching.

How often do you actually need a redirect more then once a minute or since both your specs appear to be combat more then once every 30 seconds?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
6040
Wanna know when Nightstalker is great?

Getting the kill on a flag carrier with a lot of stacks or on someone that's been holding an Orb for far too long in that new BG.

I've seen rogues kill someone before they come out of stealth with premed - ambush - evis - ambush.

It's pretty hilarious to be honest. The rogue usually dies right after but atleast he got in and killed the highly debuffed player with a lot of heals because the damage had no visible source for 3 seconds.

Otherwise, yeah... it's pretty trashy.

I like the idea of an unpeelable opener in Arena if you open with garrote on a caster since their partner won't see you for 3 seconds (unless of course they AoE CC) ... but it's not strong enough on it's own.

Also, I personally found it annoying at times when I'd want to use an ability on my out of stealth bar immediately after opening and couldn't.
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90 Human Rogue
uhh
6070
versatility is quite useful... i dont use it personally but when u need a 5CP kidney in arena on a healer its nice to have the freedom to do so
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94 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Wanna know when Nightstalker is great?

Getting the kill on a flag carrier with a lot of stacks or on someone that's been holding an Orb for far too long in that new BG.

I've seen rogues kill someone before they come out of stealth with premed - ambush - evis - ambush.

It's pretty hilarious to be honest. The rogue usually dies right after but atleast he got in and killed the highly debuffed player with a lot of heals because the damage had no visible source for 3 seconds.

Otherwise, yeah... it's pretty trashy.

That's subterfuge. :)

Nightstalker is +25% damage on your first attack and 20% faster speed while stealthed.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8875
12/05/2012 11:54 AMPosted by Revaks
Getting the kill on a flag carrier with a lot of stacks or on someone that's been holding an Orb for far too long in that new BG.


A slight shift in the wind will kill anyone that debuffed though.

12/05/2012 11:54 AMPosted by Revaks
I've seen rogues kill someone before they come out of stealth with premed - ambush - evis - ambush.


Are you talking about nightstalker still?

12/05/2012 11:54 AMPosted by Revaks
I like the idea of an unpeelable opener in Arena if you open with garrote on a caster since their partner won't see you for 3 seconds (unless of course they AoE CC) ... but it's not strong enough on it's own.


Ok no we arent :P

12/05/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Daÿna
versatility is quite useful... i dont use it personally but when u need a 5CP kidney in arena on a healer its nice to have the freedom to do so


But do you need to redirect KS more than once a minute? (or less with combat)
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90 Night Elf Rogue
6040
ah yeah Subterfuge... Nevermiiiind!

Been seeing a lot of rogues with Subterfuge recently for some reason I thought that was it.
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